2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

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JLBB
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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by JLBB » 3 months ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
3 months ago
There is what is "legal" and there is what is "ethical". In a functional society, they would be closely correlated, but in present-day America the powerful define the law to benefit them. Nobody has gone to jail for any of the wall street financial crisis, the Iraq war, the Libya war, etc. So I'm not particularly persuaded by arguments as to what's legal.

I don't have the energy to respond to all 12+ of your points, but I'll mention the issue of emoluments. I think that everybody or nearly everybody knows that Trump, Kuschner, etc are using the office to make a few billions on the side, that this is corruption, that this is illegal, and that this makes America look bad. I think that even grass-roota Republicans understand this. And I think that it doesn't matter, do you know why?

Because a few billion in corruption is chump change in the current system. Washington DC is the Mecca of global corruption and has been for a very long time. All Americans instinctively know this. If you donate money to the right political party, you get a lot back, and the amount of money that is being regularly wasted is approximately ~1000x larger (probably more) than the corruption that Trump is indulging in. The taxpayer doesn't give a shit because he's been getting robbed a lot worse for decades. It's the bigger picture that matters.

I visit DC on a regular basis. Would you like to know something interesting? It's an expensive city, with the highest median wages in the country. Do you know why that is? It's because a lot of lobbyists live there, and federal lobbyist is a highly paid profession. What does that tell you?

Represenrative Alexandria Occasio-Cortez and Senator Ted Cruz were working on an anti-corruption bill that would prevent congressmen from working as lobbyists for several years after leaving Congress. I expect it to not pass.

Focusing on billions of dollars in one class of corruption while ignoring the broader trillions that are being lost makes the Democrats look delusional and out of touch.
"etc are using the office to make a few billions on the side, "

I don't know about Kushner's situation, but there's zero evidence Trump has benefited financially from taking office, his profits haven't been inconsistent to prior years in any sense. Estimates for net worth being around 3 billion recently, his earnings have been around 4-450 million dollars over the past few years. Roughly a 15% turn on net worth in a very strong business cycle with ultra low interest rates. To say he's making "billions" from office is hysterical, he already had a profitable business and his net worth by all accounts has barely moved since he became president.

In terms of accusations of breaching the emoluments clause, the only specific examples I see people give are below the million dollar mark (usually hundreds of thousands which is entirely irrelevant to a billionaire) involving foreign officials staying at his hotels etc. One person suggested hundreds of thousands in Saudi payments to stay at one of his hotels was evidence of corruption.

"Focusing on billions of dollars in one class of corruption while ignoring the broader trillions that are being lost makes the Democrats look delusional and out of touch."

Realistically, its likely in the millions which still is completely irrelevant to someone with a net worth of three billion. If you can find evidence of him making "billions" out of office feel free to show it, but it would involve pretending that every last sent of profit he's made in recent years is due to being in office, and he'd be quickly heading to bankruptcy without it. I agree with your point about magnitudes of corruption and attitudes of the American people, but the magnitude of extra profit is not even close to the billion dollar mark. I suspect there's also some lost business from people boycotting certain Trump institutions that may not have in the past. I'm not sure the angle from which you're looking at this, but some of the lefties I talk to seem to believe that a single cent of profit Trump makes in office is illegitimate, and the only way he wouldn't be engaging in corruption is if he was losing money.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career ... ency.html/

Here are some actual numbers, at most we are looking at increases in hotel revenue around the 30 million dollar mark per year which included the opening of a new hotel in 2016. Being a new opening would have taken revenue regardless, and consider that Trump spent 60 million out of his own pocket in campaigning during the Republican primary. But overall the best thing to do is look at his net worth over the past few years, and that in particular has gone nowhere. Hardly evidence of an elaborate scheme to make money out of becoming president. Trump had a net worth of around 3 billion when he entered office, if he leaves in 2021 he will likely leave with roughly 3-4 billion also. The Clinton's for reference entered politics with a net worth around a million. By 2016, they had amassed over 250 million. Not saying this was 100% due to corrupt means, but Trump is the worst example of you will find of a politician being enriched from a position in congress or the presidency. Someone with a billion dollars isn't going to be moved in lifestyle or emotions by another billion, someone with a million dollars will be ten times more motivated by even the offer of another million.

"Focusing on billions of dollars in one class of corruption while ignoring the broader trillions that are being lost makes the Democrats look delusional and out of touch."

Totally agree with this though, and also would like them to address it.

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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by nameless » 2 months ago

With no hemming and hawing, Joe Biden says illegals should be sent back.

During tonight's democratic debate Joe Biden flat out said that if you cross the border illegally you should be sent back to their own countries.

And yet right-wingers here hate him. Right-wingers at this site don't get it that everything the GOP wants to do isn't good. They don't get it that some of the things the GOP wants to do are bad things to do. I'm voting democrat up and down the ballot because right-wingers are voting GOP on everything, including on issues where they disagree with the GOP. I don't care what democrat wins; I'm voting democrat because right-wingers vote GOP no matter how wrong some of their policies are. The rank-and-file republicans are stuck on G-O-P and can't/won't be reasonable.

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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 months ago

I missed the second debate, it was during my surgery and just after I think.
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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 month ago

I missed the Dem debate. I went to yoga and to watch a documentary.

Did any of you watch it? How'd it go?
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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by Rudiger » 1 month ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 month ago
I went to yoga and to watch a documentary.
giphy (17).gif
giphy (17).gif (1.58 MiB) Viewed 286 times
~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

I'm embarrassed to have not realized this on such elegantly succinct terms.

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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by yettee » 1 month ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 month ago
I missed the Dem debate. I went to yoga and to watch a documentary.

Did any of you watch it? How'd it go?
I just saw clips. Bottom line, seems that Biden finally held his own, Warren and Sanders were OK/good as expected, no one else did anything to really change the game. Status quo. Maybe Beto helped himself with a very strong statement on guns, Castro hurt himself with a gratuitous attack on Biden.

What documentary? I saw a good one a few days ago on Netflix... Homme Less. :thumbup:

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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 month ago

yettee wrote:
1 month ago
I just saw clips. Bottom line, seems that Biden finally held his own, Warren and Sanders were OK/good as expected, no one else did anything to really change the game. Status quo. Maybe Beto helped himself with a very strong statement on guns, Castro hurt himself with a gratuitous attack on Biden.

What documentary? I saw a good one a few days ago on Netflix... Homme Less. :thumbup:
I responded to your question about the documentary in the film and television thread.

I appreciate your summary of the debate. I looked up a few other summaries this morning, and it seems that everybody has a different take. Given that, I'll be assuming that it changed little. I think that the Democratic candidates are hitting each other with kid gloves, and this may be due to the belief (which I don't share) that Hillary Clinton lost in 2016 due to Bernie undermining her reputation. I think that this is a mistake, they should be hitting each other hard, because it is certain that Trump will.

The DNC is also ridiculous for allowing so many candidates into the debates. The threshold was 2% on 4 different polls, which due to the margin of error and the fact that there are more (much more?) than 4 polls, probably means 1% support. They should have instead asked for something more stringent, such as an average of 5%.

I am not sure what some of the other candidates such as Beto O'Rourke and Amy Klobuchar are doing. I like them, but it's game over. Maybe they're hoping to be veep.

I'm on a leftist slack channel, and they're loving Booker and Castro.
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Re: 2020 Democratic presidential nomination thread

Post by Hairblues » 1 month ago

As a democrat, I'm glad they aren't eating each other.

I was a HUGE and am still Amy Klobuchar fan. but I think it was just way too many people who got involved that its not surprising its Bernie and Biden at the top since they've both been here before and aren't new to most people. I think if Biden gets chosen, he will most likely pick Amy as VP..I think Kamella kind of burnt a bridge, I think Booker took some shots at his age today, Castro did last night...I know him and Warren have had differences in past, so I'm not sure he would pick her. I don't think he will pick a white dude. I think it will be a woman. They say Stacey Abrams, but I think Stacey Abrams is biding her time and playing a long game with Georgia politics, which may be smart (Beto).

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