FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

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FUT vs FUE

Post by pjhair » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:27 pm

Dr. Feller, one of the most respected hair transplant surgeons in the US, strongly recommends against opting for FUE except in some cases. I am a bit surprised by his recommendation as many respected clinics around the world recommend FUE. I have seen great results from both FUE and FUT. I personally leaned more towards FUE as I don't like the idea of a linear scar at the back of my head. But if FUT really does offer a decisive advantage in graft regrowth, I will rather go that route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCQyfzrb6g

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by kj6723 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:36 pm

I think that's because he specializes in FUT, so yeah it's going to be the procedure he pushes. But yeah, if I had a lot of ground to cover or was worried about graft yield I can see why FUT might be a good option. I also understand why the linear scar scares people off though. Really I think it comes down moreso to the surgeon you're comfortable with and which procedure they specialize in

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by Admin » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:38 pm

pjhair wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:27 pm
Dr. Feller, one of the most respected hair transplant surgeons in the US, strongly recommends against opting for FUE except in some cases. I am a bit surprised by his recommendation as many respected clinics around the world recommend FUE. I have seen great results from both FUE and FUT. I personally leaned more towards FUE as I don't like the idea of a linear scar at the back of my head. But if FUT really does offer a decisive advantage in graft regrowth, I will rather go that route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCQyfzrb6g
It's been years since we've gotten to a point where the yield difference between FUT and FUE on average simply doesn't justify having a FUT anymore. It's something like 94% to 98% yield these days. Better risk losing a few grafts than having the joker scar at the back of your head.

The only advantage of a FUT is the possibility to harvest yet more grafts when you've run out of donor with FUE. I'm almost in that position myself but I will not take that path, because like you I really don't want to have a linear scar and be forced to grow my hair out.

I could not finish that post without adding my classic phrase (which I stole from someone else):

Anyone going for FUT in 2018 is a certified bozo.
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by pjhair » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Admin wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:38 pm
It's been years since we've gotten to a point where the yield difference between FUT and FUE on average simply doesn't justify having a FUT anymore. It's something like 94% to 98% yield these days. Better risk losing a few grafts than having the joker scar at the back of your head.

The only advantage of a FUT is the possibility to harvest yet more grafts when you've run out of donor with FUE. I'm almost in that position myself but I will not take that path, because like you I really don't want to have a linear scar and be forced to grow my hair out.

I could not finish that post without adding my classic phrase (which I stole from someone else):

Anyone going for FUT in 2018 is a certified bozo.
In the following video Dr. Feller talks about the things to look for in a clinic if a person does decide to go for FUE. One of the most important thing to look at is whether the surgeon is performing FUE manually or he is using a suction device or robots. He states that vast majority of good FUE results come from surgeons who did the procedure manually. That's an information I didn't have before. Fred, your hair transplant turned out pretty good. Was the procedure manual or robots were used?


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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by Admin » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:06 pm

pjhair wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:57 pm
In the following video Dr. Feller talks about the things to look for in a clinic if a person does decide to go for FUE. One of the most important thing to look at is whether the surgeon is performing FUE manually or he is using a suction device or robots. He states that vast majority of good FUE results come from surgeons who did the procedure manually. That's an information I didn't have before. Fred, your hair transplant turned out pretty good. Was the procedure manual or robots were used?


De Reys is all manual and him and his wife know exactly how to implant and to harvest the grafts when it comes to the pattern. I'm experimenting with hair cuts right now (different lengths on the sides and on top) and even though you can tell my donor area has been quite thinned out, it doesn't have the obvious moth-eaten look.

Now I'm a bit worried that he won't be able to get much grafts for my last FUE. He said 700-800 maximum but he's really going to risk overharvesting next time. But my goal is to have permanent coverage on the part of my crown that's almost bald now, which isn't such a large area once I have my hair grown out. At least then I can be sure I've used all my potential when it comes to the FUE technique.

I'm still keeping out-of-the-box options for the future, some beard grafts could be useful at a point in the future, so to maximize my donor there, I've now been applying minoxidil on my face for about 3 weeks now, that should tell you how much I think that "minoxidil gives wrinkles" fearmongering is nonsense. It's also going to be nice to be able to sport a full beard, hopefully :).
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by pjhair » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:26 pm

Admin wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:06 pm
De Reys is all manual and him and his wife know exactly how to implant and to harvest the grafts when it comes to the pattern. I'm experimenting with hair cuts right now (different lengths on the sides and on top) and even though you can tell my donor area has been quite thinned out, it doesn't have the obvious moth-eaten look.

Now I'm a bit worried that he won't be able to get much grafts for my last FUE. He said 700-800 maximum but he's really going to risk overharvesting next time. But my goal is to have permanent coverage on the part of my crown that's almost bald now, which isn't such a large area once I have my hair grown out. At least then I can be sure I've used all my potential when it comes to the FUE technique.

I'm still keeping out-of-the-box options for the future, some beard grafts could be useful at a point in the future, so to maximize my donor there, I've now been applying minoxidil on face for about 3 weeks now, that should tell you how much I think that "minoxidil gives wrinkles" fearmongering is nonsense. It's also going to be nice to be able to sport a full beard, hopefully :).
It will be interesting to see the results of your second hair transplant at one year mark. Also, beard graft in crown is a great idea. I have seen some good results with that technique. More people should probably consider it. Have you considered documenting the results of your second hair transplant on this forum?
Admin wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:06 pm
I've now been applying minoxidil on my face for about 3 weeks now, that should tell you how much I think that "minoxidil gives wrinkles" fearmongering is nonsense. It's also going to be nice to be able to sport a full beard, hopefully :).
To be honest, I really want to start using minoxidil but I am scared of it because of the reports about "wrinkles". My face, skin and complexion are the best part of my looks and I am deathly afraid of messing with them . Undocumented finasteride side effects that I experienced (reflex hyperandrogenicity) have made me really paranoid about using other drugs too. However, I think I can afford this paranoia because I am still NW2 to NW 2.5. Once my situation gets worse, my desperation will grow and I wouldn't be surprised if I find myself jumping on minoxidil. You are a long term minoxidil user. I think your body can handle the drug really well so you have nothing to worry about.

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by supremegentleman » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:48 pm

I don't trust Americans so I wouldn't trust Dr Feller. It seems to me that most American plastic surgeons are crooks. Their prices are fucking ridiculous and their results are average at best. They also seem not to have as much experience in hair transplants as other doctors. They just do it for profit given the growing interest in the procedure. They will push anything on you just to get your money. FUE is much better than FUT if done correctly by a specialist. Cutting a fucking strip of skin from your fucking scalp just to get the hair grafts is fucking crazy, outdated and unnecessary in 2018, If someones buys into this FUT propaganda he must be a lunatic.

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Re: FUT vs FUE

Post by pjhair » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:56 am

supremegentleman wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:48 pm
I don't trust Americans so I wouldn't trust Dr Feller. It seems to me that most American plastic surgeons are crooks. Their prices are fucking ridiculous and their results are average at best. They also seem not to have as much experience in hair transplants as other doctors. They just do it for profit given the growing interest in the procedure. They will push anything on you just to get your money. FUE is much better than FUT if done correctly by a specialist. Cutting a fucking strip of skin from your fucking scalp just to get the hair grafts is fucking crazy, outdated and unnecessary in 2018, If someones buys into this FUT propaganda he must be a lunatic.
Cutting strip out of scalp indeed sounds very painful. Not to mention the ugly permanent scar that it leaves. However, do you know of any study or data showing that FUE consistently performs as well as FUT in terms of graft regrowth, especially in mega sessions? I am personally leaning towards FUE as I don't want any scar and need only 500 to 1000 grafts to achieve my desired hair line. Even Dr. Feller recommends FUE for such a small procedure.

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FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by Hanginginthewire » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:54 pm


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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by JasonStatham » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:39 pm

Hanginginthewire wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:54 pm
Admin will not like this video xD

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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by Admin » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:20 pm

JasonStatham wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:39 pm
Admin will not like this video xD
Indeed.

Let's pick it apart on the fly.

"I have a scar".

No bozo, since you've had 3 FUT procedures, you have three joker scars at the back of your head, and not everyone will be blessed with your scalp laxity. And now you'd better pray that the rest of your hair never gives in.

Comment on the surgeon talking: only based on his appearance, I'd never trust him. And the saleman's pitch and his narcissistic know-it-all attitude don't help.

"FUE leaves scars as well." Yeah right, my surgeon used a 0.75mm punch and scars of that diameter will be so obvious to the naked eye at a social distance.

The patients that he's showing haven't had their donor overharvested, it's the surgeon that messed it up and they weren't competent enough to extract the hair in a proper pattern. When it's done properly, like De Reys did with me, you just can't tell.

His yield percentages are outdated too, these days when performed by a top doctors, the yields are roughly the same, well you could say it's 97% graft survival for FUT and 94% for FUE, again, it just doesn't justify the invasiveness of the FUT procedure.

Transsection? Again, top surgeons have extremely low rates of transsection. Jesus it's like these guys are still stuck in 2005, they still think that FUE is not meant for large procedures, and the surgeon clearly wants to sell his cheap and expedient FUT's.

And what's with the stupid metaphors? "It's like a brick taken off a wall", "it's like a tree", for fuck's sake, just go look at some of the 5000-6000 FUE only procedures (in several surgeries of course) that have successfully worked out for NW4 to NW6 candidates out there, there are plenty of them.

I get it, he doesn't want to spend two whole days extracting 2000-3000 grafts and the YouTube guy is getting money for featuring him. And on top of all that, they're mocking Joe Tillman in the comments. And of course he ends up on a ridiculous strawman "if you're a NW7", yeah because those people are so common.

Anyway, I'll conclude with my usual "anyone who goes for FUT in [current year] is a certified bozo". These guys both have decided of their conclusion first (FUT is da best!) and then went full confirmation bias and used a handful of strawmen to justify a proposition about which they had already made up their minds.
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by Hanginginthewire » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 pm

Admin wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:20 pm
Indeed.

Let's pick it apart on the fly.

"I have a scar".

No bozo, since you've had 3 FUT procedures, you have three joker scars at the back of your head, and not everyone will be blessed with your scalp laxity. And now you'd better pray that the rest of your hair never gives in.

Comment on the surgeon talking: only based on his appearance, I'd never trust him. And the saleman's pitch and his narcissistic know-it-all attitude don't help.

"FUE leaves scars as well." Yeah right, my surgeon used a 0.75mm punch and scars of that diameter will be so obvious to the naked eye at a social distance.

The patients that he's showing haven't had their donor overharvested, it's the surgeon that messed it up and they weren't competent enough to extract the hair in a proper pattern. When it's done properly, like De Reys did with me, you just can't tell.

His yield percentages are outdated too, these days when performed by a top doctors, the yields are roughly the same, well you could say it's 97% graft survival for FUT and 94% for FUE, again, it just doesn't justify the invasiveness of the FUT procedure.

Transsection? Again, top surgeons have extremely low rates of transsection. Jesus it's like these guys are still stuck in 2005, they still think that FUE is not meant for large procedures, and the surgeon clearly wants to sell his cheap and expedient FUT's.

And what's with the stupid metaphors? "It's like a brick taken off a wall", "it's like a tree", for fuck's sake, just go look at some of the 5000-6000 FUE only procedures (in several surgeries of course) that have successfully worked out for NW4 to NW6 candidates out there, there are plenty of them.

I get it, he doesn't want to spend two whole days extracting 2000-3000 grafts and the YouTube guy is getting money for featuring him. And on top of all that, they're mocking Joe Tillman in the comments. And of course he ends up on a ridiculous strawman "if you're a NW7", yeah because those people are so common.

Anyway, I'll conclude with my usual "anyone who goes for FUT in [current year] is a certified bozo". These guys both have decided of their conclusion first (FUT is da best!) and then went full confirmation bias and used a handful of strawmen to justify a proposition about which they had already made up their minds.
Thanks so much for your feedback. Question - with regard to multiple FUTs, I thought they removed the previous scar with each new surgery, so someone like Dimuzio would still only have 1 scar at this point? I’m genuinely asking, that was always the impression that I had...?

Agree that the doctor representative has a shady look about him, just in my opinion.

And yet somehow I am left wondering if FUE is in fact “too good to be true” and that we are overlooking reality because we want it to be different. I would think doctors would want the more money from FUE, but I guess they are lazy as well and don’t want to deal with added labor.

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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by JasonStatham » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:40 am



So Joe Tillmann did a video about my clinic Hattingen.

They are famous for doing FUT mega sessions but I got an FUE as you all know from there.
Results are amazing in the big FUT sessions all over the Internet. I agree with @Admin that a scar on your back isn't something I personally would like but it would be amazingly stupid to say FUT is stupid to do because those guys are in the Industry for decades and the results in FUT speak for themselves.

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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by Admin » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:31 am

Hanginginthewire wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 pm
Thanks so much for your feedback. Question - with regard to multiple FUTs, I thought they removed the previous scar with each new surgery, so someone like Dimuzio would still only have 1 scar at this point? I’m genuinely asking, that was always the impression that I had...?

Agree that the doctor representative has a shady look about him, just in my opinion.

And yet somehow I am left wondering if FUE is in fact “too good to be true” and that we are overlooking reality because we want it to be different. I would think doctors would want the more money from FUE, but I guess they are lazy as well and don’t want to deal with added labor.
You get another scar after each FUT, it doesn't make much sense to expect the surgeon to "remove" the previous scar :p..

FUE isn't too good to be true, now its limitations are real and I'm facing them right now. I've already head 4000 grafts harvested and I have a last FUE planned at De Reys on February 4th.

Right after my last surgery, he told me that he didn't think more than 700-800 grafts would be possible.

Then I sent him my results after 6 months, and I guess seeing the good state of my donor, he talked about 1000 grafts and more. Now I have one day of surgery booked so it will have to be around 1000.

So yeah, around 5000 grafts in total will be the upper limit according to De Reys who's known to be quite conservative. And that's where I'll stop, even though since the crown is deemed to be a black hole for grafts, the last ~1000 grafts on it most likely won't do the trick under certain lightning conditions.

I will not be going for FUT and I have my personal reasons for that, even though I could possibly harvest another 3000 grafts. It's too invasive and archaic to me, and it limits your choice of hair length and hair styles.

FUT is out of the question but what I'd still be open too is using some beard grafts and adding some temporary SMP. For the beard grafts, I was afraid that I'd be told that my beard isn't thick enough, so I've been putting minoxidil on it for 4 months now (but muh wrinkles!) and it's been thickening nicely.

I don't know what my next move will be, I'll first concentrate on that last FUE, my main worry is about how I'll sleep with grafts on my crown, I guess you have to use that cushion they give you at the clinic to elevate your head.
JasonStatham wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:40 am
it would be amazingly stupid to say FUT is stupid to do because those guys are in the Industry for decades and the results in FUT speak for themselves.
The two upsides of FUT would be the price and the fact that you could harvest 3000 more grafts by having one combined with FUE's. Personally, I just wouldn't be able to get over the damage it does and the joker scar.
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: FUE vs. FUT Hair Transplant - What You NEED to Know

Post by JeanLucBB » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:51 am

Hanginginthewire wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 pm
Thanks so much for your feedback. Question - with regard to multiple FUTs, I thought they removed the previous scar with each new surgery, so someone like Dimuzio would still only have 1 scar at this point? I’m genuinely asking, that was always the impression that I had...?

Agree that the doctor representative has a shady look about him, just in my opinion.

And yet somehow I am left wondering if FUE is in fact “too good to be true” and that we are overlooking reality because we want it to be different. I would think doctors would want the more money from FUE, but I guess they are lazy as well and don’t want to deal with added labor.
The fundamental issue with FUT is that you cannot cut your hair shorter than a number 3 without it being blatantly evident you have a scar, the harsh angulation on either side of the scar is often visible, most people have some shock loss around the scar and you cannot harvest FUE grafts from directly around the scar without it becoming noticeable. There is just a drastically larger risk to the donor for FUT even with top surgeons that you don't see with top FUE surgeons. Yes many people get lucky and have an FUT scar that is virtually invisible, but what about the 25% who go to top surgeons like Rahal, Konior, or Hasson/Wong and come out with what is effectively a butchered donor area for which FUE is barely an option anymore? Or a scar visible after a month of growth like I saw on a Rahal patient recently.

The reality is that FUE is better suited to 90% of modern patients and that less and less people want to risk FUT. There will be top clinics like Hattingen or Hasson and Wong doing large mega sessions of 5000+ grafts for FUT on Norwood 5 and aboves with poor donors for whom it is worth it, but elsewhere it will largely die out. It has a niche appeal at this point.

Look at the results on a diverse range of patients from Lorenzo, Erdogan, Freitas, Couto and Baubac. Thousands of cases for evidence can't be too good to be true.

And yes Dimuzio would likely only have one scar.

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