What are your thoughts on abortion?

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What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 year ago
I'm curious to see how they handle that.

If all they care about is the sanctity of human life, due to the belief that metaphysical souls enter the corpse at conception, then they will ban abortion in all cases with the exception of the health of the mother being at stake, and possibly the health of the other fetuses if it's a multiple pregnancy. That would be consistent with conservative arguments over the past thirty years.

But that would be politically suicide. They're not going to take abortion access away from wealthy white women. Those with means will merely cross state lines or drive slightly longer distances, but they'll still have access. Having those people enraged would sink the GOP.

I agree that death by a 1,000 cuts is the more likely outcome. It gives them plausible deniability. Moreover, it helps keep this wedge issue alive, it's a great issue to help motivate conservative voters. Imagine if for every election cycle for the next ten cycle they make it a referendum on some very specific, rare, obscure abortion technique. They can motivate voters on that issue while continuing business as usual on everything else. It's like what parts of the left tried to do with transgender bathrooms.
I think wealthy women always had better options with abortions. Also was easier for them to do a semester abroad, to stay at a clinic until they gave birth in secret and gave baby away, cake home no one more the wiser for it.
They didn’t have the same stigma that poor women or working class women had to face. And it affected men too. Often men were societally forced to marry women they may not have wanted to marry and possibly led unhappy lives of a loveless marriage to a resentful woman. I’m sure millions of stories about shot gun weddings. Some may have been happy too. But I find it unlikely.

It’s ironic to me that the very people who screech about the life of the child seem to gloss over politically the Iives of living children when it comes to health care, hunger, welfare, food stamps, environmental illnesses, affordable day care and more. Maybe they donate to their churches I don't know, but news flash. It’s not helping.
Let’s not forget fleeing their home countries and seeking asylum because they will might be killed in their home countries
I’m NOT saying everyone has to care about these children, I’ll admit it often doesn’t make me pause while eating my morning breakfast the way it should, I get indifferent... but I’m not out protesting and verbally abusing women and teenagers going to clinics for an abortion either.

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

Abortions are a gray area. Some women
have a high number of twins. Sometimes "selective abortions" can save or even help the remaining children. In these cases the unhealthy fetuses will be selected. Is there a right choice?
Think happy thoughts.

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by kj6723 » 1 year ago

I think abortion is an abomination, in almost if not every case. My views on the subject would be viewed as radical and extreme by many of you, even some conservatives. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around the arguments that justify it. My views on many matters have evolved over the years but never on this

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Rudiger » 1 year ago

kj6723 wrote:
1 year ago
I think abortion is an abomination, in almost if not every case. My views on the subject would be viewed as radical and extreme by many of you, even some conservatives. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around the arguments that justify it. My views on many matters have evolved over the years but never on this
I'm sure I'm there as well.
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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

kj6723 wrote:
1 year ago
I think abortion is an abomination, in almost if not every case. My views on the subject would be viewed as radical and extreme by many of you, even some conservatives. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around the arguments that justify it. My views on many matters have evolved over the years but never on this
I think the same, having lived through it as most of you know, I was so confused when my ex aborted that I looked up everything I could get my hands on about it, and to me, there's a lot of leftist propaganda even in the studies that are produced about it. They do this common thing nowadays in the activist disciplines where they've already decided what they want to demonstrate and then design the questions and methodology of the study to get the results they want.

So every time you search about the topic "psychological consequences of abortion", you'll get dozens of studies telling you that it's completely harmless and that almost all women recover very fast and live happily ever after it. To get a bit technical here, it's like they inject their own collective narcissism into their studies and they can't help but overplay their hand, to the point that they're often one step away from telling you that abortion is actually beneficial to women. Some activists have been there for a while now, saying that they're proud of having aborted.

But of course, outside of supposedly scientific disciplines that have been contaminated with political activism, reality is much more grim, as it often is. It's not as bad as you think, it's much worse. I could follow the state of my ex from a distance and I can tell she never truly recovered. The last times she talked to me, she said she was often depressed, especially in a time when many of her friends were having baby showers. That aborted baby will always remain a ghost that will always be there in the background, even moreso for her than for me. I know how uncomfortable it sounds to talk about this.

It's especially dishonest of the scientist to want to push their political agenda while you can find thousands of testimonies online where women who have aborted feel depressed and lost, and wonder why their relationship has gone to shit after the abortion. It's like they're telling them "ah come on, your pain is not real! Abortion is liberating girl!" How nice of them. 70% of relationships never recover from an abortion, and that's a stat that the activists won't be able to twist to suit their agenda since it's a measurable fact. So they ask questions like: "Do you have suicidal thoughts 6 months after your abortion?!" and if the women reply 'no', they're like 'Conclusion: see, abortion is harmless! We showed those right-wing religious pro-life nutjobs!"

Abortion is an abomination, but as I've said before, that doesn't mean it should be outlawed, it's better to let people make their own mistakes.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
I think the same, having lived through it as most of you know, I was so confused when my ex aborted that I looked up everything about it, and to me, there's a lot of leftist propaganda even in the studies that are produced about it. They do this common thing nowadays in the activist disciplines where they've already decided what they want to demonstrate and then design the questions and methodology of the study to get the results they want.

So every time you search about the topic "psychological consequences of abortion", you'll get dozens of studies telling you that it's completely harmless and that almost all women recover very fast and live happily ever after it. To get a bit technical here, it's like they inject their own collective narcissism into their studies and they can't help but overplay their hand, to the point that they're often one step away from telling you that abortion is actually beneficial to women. Some activists have been there for a while now, saying that they're proud of having aborted.

But of course, outside of supposedly scientific disciplines that have been contaminated with political activism, reality is much more grim, as it often is. It's not as bad as you think, it's much worse. I could follow the state of my ex from a distance and I can tell she never truly recovered. The last times she talked to me, she said she was often depressed, especially in a time when many of her friends were having baby showers. That aborted baby will always remain a ghost that will always be there in the background, even moreso for her than for me. I know how uncomfortable it sounds to talk about this.

It's especially dishonest of the scientist to want to push their political agenda while you can find thousands of testimonies online where women who have aborted feel depressed and lost, and wonder why their relationship has gone to shit after the abortion. It's like they're telling them "ah come on, your pain is not real! Abortion is liberating girl!" How nice of them. 70% of relationships never recover from an abortion, and that's a stat that the activists won't be able to twist to suit their agenda since it's a measurable fact. So they ask questions like: "Do you have suicidal thoughts 6 months after your abortion?!" and if the women reply 'no', they're like 'Conclusion: see, abortion is harmless! We showed those right-wing religious pro-life nutjobs!"

Abortion is an abomination, but as I've said before, that doesn't mean it should be outlawed, it's better to let people make their own mistakes.
I only skimmed this post but just anecdotal I’ve known MANY women personally who’ve had abortions.
I’ve seen no evidence in any of them that it negatively effected their lives.

I do think 1 friend who had 5 (which is A LOT and not normal or common) while a late teen to young adult, I suspect it had some physical affect short term but not long term.
After she was married around age 22 she had a few miscarriages which I personally suspect the abortions (5 is a lot!!! ) May have had an impact
*this was never said by a doctor. Just my opinion*
Her first child she was around 32. She had 2 healthy pregnancies/Healthy children. She’s still married to same man at 45 and she lives an upper middle
Class life which she helps support working full time in her own buisness. I’ve never seen her have mental issues at all.

Others that I know have gone on to have kids and normal lives unaffected by it, all of who I’m thinking of off the top of head went on to have kids including my sister (who has two healthy kids and a fantastic job.)
I’m not going to say it doesn’t ever negatively impact a women’s lives, but I don’t personally know anyone who it has and like I’ve said I know a lot who’ve had them especially when I was a teen.

I would say rape has negatively effected more friends than abortions. I have a friend in particular whose whole personality changed after her rape and she was around 40 when it happened. She never reported it. She started abusing alcohol and prescription drugs after the rape and she’s changed dramatically in her personality.

The only person who I know to have spoken with some mild regret was my Mom. I wouldn’t even say its regret but more like curiosity. She had an abortion in her late 30s after her divorce. She was dating a man who she definitely didn’t want to marry and she was terrified even at her age in that time period to have a kid and not be married to the father (her family, society).
She only told me in recent years.
I think if the time period had been present day she would have had it.
My mother had no mental issues and became a very successful independent person, particularly in her mid 40s and onward and a fantastic mother and grandmother.

I understand people thinking it’s abhorrent but many things are abhorrent and people do them or don’t help in anyway when it comes to living children. I find the people who feel this way about unborn children tend to be inconsistent in their concern about living children. I’m sure some are but I haven’t seen it (generally speaking)
Last edited by Hairblues 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

kj6723 wrote:
1 year ago
I think abortion is an abomination, in almost if not every case. My views on the subject would be viewed as radical and extreme by many of you, even some conservatives. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around the arguments that justify it. My views on many matters have evolved over the years but never on this
Who are you to dictate what women do with their bodies?
A woman's reproductive activities has absolutely nothing to do with men who sit in their ideological ivory towers and bore the more reasonable folk among us about how society should look.
For the love of South Western skies.

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Rudiger » 1 year ago

blackg wrote:
1 year ago
Who are you to dictate what women do with their bodies?
A woman's reproductive activities has absolutely nothing to do with men who sit in their ideological ivory towers and bore the more reasonable folk among us about how society should look.
I support all females choices with what they do with their bodies, including the unborn female.
me me me me I'm the omniscient and compassionate Rudiger

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 year ago
I only skimmed this post but just anecdotal I’ve known MANY women personally who’ve had abortions.
I’ve seen no evidence in any of them it negatively effected their lives.

I do think 1 friend who had 5 (which is A LOT and not normal or common) as a late teen to young adult it had some physical affect short term but not long term. After she was married around age 22 she had a few miscarriages which I personally suspect the abortions (5 is a lot!!! ) May have had an impact
*this was never said by a doctor. Just my opinion*
Her first child she was around 32. She had 2 healthy pregnancies/Healthy children. She’s still married to same man at 45 and she lives an upper middle
Class life which she supports working full time in her own buisness. I’ve never seen her have mental issues at all.

Others that I know have gone on to have kids and normal lives unaffected by it, all I’m thinking of off top of head went on to have kids including my sister who has two healthy kids and a fantastic job.
I’m not going to say it doesn’t ever negatively impacted women’s lives, but I don’t personally know anyone who it has and like I’ve said I know a lot.

I would say rape has negatively effected more friends than abortions. I have a friend in particular whose whole personality changed after her rape and she was around 40 when it happened. She never reported it. She started abusing alcohol and prescription drugs after the rape and she’s changed dramatically in her personality.

The only person who I know to have spoken with some mild regret was my Mom. I wouldn’t even say it is regret more like curiosity. She has an abortion in her late 30s after her divorce. She was dating a man who she definitely didn’t want to marry and she was terrified even at her age at the time period to have a kid and not be married to the father (her family, society).
She only told me in recent years.
I think if the time period had been present, she would have had it.
My mother had no mental issues and became a very successful independent person particularly in her mid 40s and onward and a fantastic mother and grandmother.

I get people thinking it’s abhorrent but many things are abhorrent and people do them anyway when it comes to children. I don’t find the people who feel this way about unborn children tend to be consistent in their concern about living children. I’m sure some are but I haven’t seen it (generally speaking)
I know what it's like to have my spawn aborted and I can only thank the progressive laws in Australia for allowing me and my partner (at the time) to make this choice.
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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 year ago
I support all females choices with what they do with their bodies, including the unborn female.
Good joke but you can't have it both ways, Rudi.
Until you're on the receiving end of an unwanted pregnancy, I suggest you defer to others more experienced on this subject.
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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

blackg wrote:
1 year ago
Who are you to dictate what women do with their bodies?
A woman's reproductive activities has absolutely nothing to do with men who sit in their ideological ivory towers and bore the more reasonable folk among us about how society should look.
He didn’t dictate, he gave his opinion and he’s entitled to it.

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by kj6723 » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
I think the same, having lived through it as most of you know, I was so confused when my ex aborted that I looked up everything I could get my hands on about it, and to me, there's a lot of leftist propaganda even in the studies that are produced about it. They do this common thing nowadays in the activist disciplines where they've already decided what they want to demonstrate and then design the questions and methodology of the study to get the results they want.

So every time you search about the topic "psychological consequences of abortion", you'll get dozens of studies telling you that it's completely harmless and that almost all women recover very fast and live happily ever after it. To get a bit technical here, it's like they inject their own collective narcissism into their studies and they can't help but overplay their hand, to the point that they're often one step away from telling you that abortion is actually beneficial to women. Some activists have been there for a while now, saying that they're proud of having aborted.

But of course, outside of supposedly scientific disciplines that have been contaminated with political activism, reality is much more grim, as it often is. It's not as bad as you think, it's much worse. I could follow the state of my ex from a distance and I can tell she never truly recovered. The last times she talked to me, she said she was often depressed, especially in a time when many of her friends were having baby showers. That aborted baby will always remain a ghost that will always be there in the background, even moreso for her than for me. I know how uncomfortable it sounds to talk about this.

It's especially dishonest of the scientist to want to push their political agenda while you can find thousands of testimonies online where women who have aborted feel depressed and lost, and wonder why their relationship has gone to shit after the abortion. It's like they're telling them "ah come on, your pain is not real! Abortion is liberating girl!" How nice of them. 70% of relationships never recover from an abortion, and that's a stat that the activists won't be able to twist to suit their agenda since it's a measurable fact. So they ask questions like: "Do you have suicidal thoughts 6 months after your abortion?!" and if the women reply 'no', they're like 'Conclusion: see, abortion is harmless! We showed those right-wing religious pro-life nutjobs!"

Abortion is an abomination, but as I've said before, that doesn't mean it should be outlawed, it's better to let people make their own mistakes.
My thing is, it's difficult for me to even make it to the point in the debate where we start discussing the impact if has on the woman. There's like a wall up inside me that I cannot get past the idea of killing off the conceived human life, and for me the discussion begins and ends with that.

I know the arguments, for the life of the mother, cases of rape, all these things. I just can never make it to that point in the discussion, like I said there is a wall inside me that I can't get past that first point. And then the arguments "this baby will be doomed to a poor quality of life if allowed to be born." I still believe that where there is life, there is possibility and hope, no matter how fucking cheesy it sounds. It's gotten to the point where people are now actually justifying abortion for cases down syndrome. Wtf. Ideologically this is not the direction the human race should be moving. Practicality at the loss of morality is a dangerous path to go down. And then the arguments "well we kill innocent people when we fight wars" and stuff like that. Yes we do, it does happen, both in covert manner, through drone strikes, that sort of thing, and even in conventional war there are innocent casualties. It shouldn't happen, and it certainly doesn't justify shit else.

I actually do think it should be illegal. Roe vs Wade to me is an extremely sad point in US history, and I would support its repeal. "But then women will get coat hanger abortions!" Again this brings us back to the point in the discussion that I can't even get to in the first place

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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 year ago
He didn’t dictate, he gave his opinion and he’s entitled to it.
If he had his chance, him and those like him, would dictate what women such as yourself do with your bodies.

You should reevaluate your position.
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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Rudiger » 1 year ago

kj6723 wrote:
1 year ago
My thing is, it's difficult for me to even make it to the point in the debate where we start discussing the impact if has on the woman. There's like a wall up inside me that I cannot get past the idea of killing off the conceived human life, and for me the discussion begins and ends with that.

I know the arguments, for the life of the mother, cases of rape, all these things. I just can never make it to that point in the discussion, like I said there is a wall inside me that I can't get past that first point. And then the arguments "this baby will be doomed to a poor quality of life if allowed to be born." I still believe that where there is life, there is possibility and hope, no matter how fucking cheesy it sounds. It's gotten to the point where people are now actually justifying abortion for cases down syndrome. Wtf. Ideologically this is not the direction the human race should be moving. Practicality at the loss of morality is a dangerous path to go down. And then the arguments "well we kill innocent people when we fight wars" and stuff like that. Yes we do, it does happen, both in covert manner, through drone strikes, that sort of thing, and even in conventional war there are innocent casualties. It shouldn't happen, and it certainly doesn't justify shit else.

I actually do think it should be illegal. Roe vs Wade to me is an extremely sad point in US history, and I would support its repeal. "But then women will get coat hanger abortions!" Again this brings us back to the point in the discussion that I can't even get to in the first place
I think the "life threatening risk" is normally where even most pro-lifers draw a line, including myself (though I have known a few people that don't feel this is acceptable, if there is a chance a healthy new born child can result from it, and even the slimmest of chances).

I've read a lot of stories about how women actually risked their life or gave up their life at the chance of their new born going on to live. What was the correlation between all of them? They had at least one child before, often a few. Has a woman with her first born ever taken such a risk? I highly doubt it. This is because unless it's in front of you, and you realise the reality and weight of the situation, it can be very easy and all too convenient to just get rid.

And I just want to take a step back and say I don't expect anyone to make that decision, or it makes them less human or caring, but to me it makes sense that the only women who would be brave/crazy enough to make such a choice would be those who have seen life grow before them. When it comes to possibly giving up your own life, you are no longer making a statement or anything, you are expressing the selflessness that comes from understanding you are passing on life. If anyone is ever lucky enough to witness a glimpse of this trait in your own parents, you understand it, and you at least understand how one day you would do the same for your own children (not that I could guarantee such a thing of course, but I at least understand it).

To me that's about as extreme as an abortion scenario can get to, and I can still take that away from it.

But after going through Repeal the 8th earlier this year here in Ireland, and having felt like an alien among everyone I know, it's good to read your words kj. It reminds me that I'm not alone in my thought process, especially as the only people that publicly expressed anti-abortion thought were religious extremists. I think this was actually completely intentional by the Irish press and RTE (main TV channel) in giving a "balance" - the pro-life side was always someone nuts who basically wanted to ban modern civilisation.

For me the realisation of this topic was never reached easily, and I was influenced as a young person by media and society. Now it seems blatantly obvious to me that abortion is completely wrong and deplorable, but I'll tell you the thing that made me arrive at this point, and started a snowball effect of a lot of other reasons it is unjust-

At what point does a life become life?

And in discussing Repeal the 8th many times this year, nobody could ever give me an answer to this, but the more you think about it the more it will haunt you. The "legislation" we were given was supposedly 12 weeks (though this wasn't in writing or anything, one of the many reasons this was one of the most fucked up referendums known to man, but I'll move on) and the common opinion was "well 12 weeks isn't too long, it's not conscious but it gives you enough time to decide".

And to marry this with another supposedly justified opinion "it's not like they want to go around murdering toddlers or anything".

But I mean, is a toddler conscious? Does a 1 year old understand death or the need to survive?

Troubling questions but really, to me this brings it all back. A 12 week old apparently has no right to life but if it makes it a week later then it's a person now. Nobody really troubles themselves with this, just "at some point between conception and birth it's ok to abort" well OK what point? Nobody will ever know. And if they really gave a lot of thought to this they'd arrive at the same conclusion as us, I guarantee that.

It's incredibly tedious and selfish of the modern human that the only reason we equate life with a toddler, and not a fetus, is because a newborn baby or toddler is something we physically cherish and adore. An unwanted fetus however is derived as a "clump of cells". Even if both are as essentially as "conscious" as each other.

It really does come down to being that superficial, and it's disgusting. I really don't care about these "moments of becoming human" when a fetus first blinks or clenches it's fist, those scrambling arguments to me just reduces the overall point.
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Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

blackg wrote:
1 year ago
If he had his chance, him and those like him, would dictate what women such as yourself do with your bodies.

You should reevaluate your position.
I live in NY all due respect to him, he ain’t dictating shit for my body.
Besides, it’s up to young women now to wake up fight for this for themselves. If they don’t vote in those red states and it gets turned over, that’s not KJs fault. I’m not saying it’s the women’s fault either BUT a lot has been taken for granted in this country for a LOOONG time and chickens are coming home to roost, from the fear of roe v wade, to the weakening of unions to Florida water turning to shit from environment.

People need to vote, make sure their vote is counted. (Some shady shit in georgia going on with Republicans there) Keep fighting and not get deterred by this fear monger omg about leftist mobs. Both sides do the same shit I just saw Nancy Pelosi get heckled and called a piece of shit while entering a conference room. So the left had NO monopoly on this aggressive shit. I watched Steve Schmidt heckled and yelled at by republicans in Florida.

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