Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

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Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

Would like to use this blog to write about the history of two bands that have been in the
news for a long time lately.

The first is Fleetwood Mac. The original lineup added two new additional members, on the
condition they had to take both. This was Lindsey Buckingham and his girlfriend at the time,
Stevie Nicks. Two for one package.

As most people already know, relationships didn't turn out very well in the mid 1970s. Both the founding bassist
and his wife divorced, the McVies. The second relationship was Buckingham and Stevie Nicks.

During their seperations they released their most successful album to date, Rumours. During the
time it is well documented that both Buckingham AND Nicks were cocaine
addicts, and using large volumes of drugs.

Fast forward to April 2018. After Buckingham wrote some of their most successful hits, 'Don't stop
thinking about tomorrow', 'The Chain', 'You can go your own way', who turns on him? His ex girlfriend
who broke up with him, sang with him for over thirty years after their breakup.

It is true he wrote some bad songs about her ("Go your own way"), but she also wrote bad songs
about him to (Landslide). Dreaming.

The story seems to "change", depending on the mood of their fans. At first, a book comes out about
Stevie Nicks, and how volatile Lindsey is (right before he gets fired). There are youtube videos
saying he "abused her", he purposely "tripped her" on one show in 1980! I don't condone violence of
any kind, but this was when he was on cocaine AND in 1980.

Of course, Stevie Nicks is the victim in all of this. She "bravely" had to carry on. And Christine McVie, who
recently worked with Lindsey on her own solo album, has to back her 1980 story up, and say she was the
"only band member" who did anything about it!

So, to summarize their press releases, on April 9th 2018 the band makes an official press release, saying why
they fired Lindsey. According to Nicks, he didn't want to tour for one year, and he wasn't a "team" player.
Also, he didn't want to sing hits that the band recorded before they got popular, and had two different
vocalists (both male, and Stevie and Christine both share singing duties). So, basically it wasn't because of
the harsh way he treated Nicks, but because he didn't want to play irrelevant music.

Now, after a negative fan backlash (after Stevie Nicks biography, and claiming how abusive Lindsy is), they no
longer use the word "firing". In April 26th, to headline is "divorce" (they don't like to use their original word, because
it's too harsh, in their eyes, despite releasing several youtube videos saying he is a woman beater, released by
Stevie Nicks?)

2018 April 9TH Rolling Stone Article:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news ... am-w518925

In the article above, they speak about how great their replacements are (two people). How they really enjoyed
playing with the fired members replacements in the past.

After a negative fan backlash (i.e. sound familiar? think Smashing Pumpkins), in April 26th they don't use the word "fire" any more.
They want to say "divorce", because firing sounds too ugly in their mind.

2018 April 26th article:

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/mu ... 4zbq6.html

So, after working with a "difficult" person (Stevie Nicks), a person he bought into the band (Lindsey made it a condition
upon his hiring), for 43 years, they fire Lindsey and replace him with two members they worked with in the past. They also
bring up a lot of dirt on his actions in the 1970s and 1980s. Just go to youtube and check out some of the bad things they
had to say about him right after firing him.

Sound familiar?
Think happy thoughts.

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Is this an allegory hinting at Fred's divorce from HairLossTalk via the Wolf?
For the love of South Western skies.

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

In some ways, it is, I suppose, because the HairLossTalk does really suck after losing their major players.

First it was @Hairblues . Next it was @WhitePolarBear and @Rudiger.

To a lesser extent Buckthorn, because he wasn't really permanently banned, he was allowed
to switch a user id.

All these people taken down, so the "chosen one of privilege" could have his face on the
most liked members tab. Note that, he cannot have dislikes. (In his defense, none of the moderators
can).

However, there has never been a good justification to why the four mentioned users were
blocked.

Ironically Hairblues situations is similar to the Smashing Pumpkins. She was accused of being
"mean spirited", by the "one of privilege". And in a way, the "privileged one" does seem to
rule, as far as who goes and who stays that is.
Last edited by rclark 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Ironically, from everything WP did and said to me over the time I was there, he liked me as a poster.
I never got a PM about my ‘behavior’ or my fighting.
In fact he was often on my side on threads or remained silent.
Only 1x I recall he had to reprimand both me and Guzman and it was like a finger wag, and to be fair I gave Guzman a zinger that inadvertently insulted like 5 people who then tagged WP like crazy.

In fact he confided to me Mid Summer 17, something he volunteered to me. Because he trusted me. Why confide in me something, I’m sure Admin didn’t want any of us to know, if I was erratic or similar in any way to NL, or if he took any complaints by others about me seriously? He wouldn’t.

I think worse then disliking me he actually liked me, but because he was instructed to lie, he did. (this is my own educated guess I will never know for sure).

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 year ago
Ironically, from everything Wolf Pack did and said to me over the time I was there, he liked me as a poster.
I never got a PM about my ‘behavior’ or my fighting.
In fact he was often on my side on threads or remained silent.
Only 1x I recall he had to reprimand both me and Guzman and it was like a finger wag, and to be fair I gave Guzman a zinger that inadvertently insulted like 5 people who then tagged Wolf Pack like crazy.

In fact he confided to me Mid Summer 17, something he volunteered to me. Because he trusted me. Why confide in me something, I’m sure Admin didn’t want any of us to know, if I was erratic or similar in any way to NL, or if he took any complaints by others about me seriously? He wouldn’t.

I think worse then disliking me he actually liked me, but because he was instructed to lie, he did. (this is my own educated guess I will never know for sure).
I don't think he was receiving instructions from anyone, knowing Roberto and Admin (I also had private conversations with him in the past). All this mess originates from Wolf Pack in my opinion.

The confessions are also part of his power trip, he send that kind of message to me: "Bro, someone was requesting your ban but I told them no! Just wanted to let you know" Really, really. And I really thought "oh it's nice of him to tell me that, he's on my side!!".

He probably did something along those lines with all the major members. It's a way to get you under his thumb, if you start antagonizing him, he will remind you of what he did for you. "Remember the time I helped you? You're so ungrateful!"
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 year ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 year ago
Ironically, from everything Wolf Pack did and said to me over the time I was there, he liked me as a poster.
I never got a PM about my ‘behavior’ or my fighting.
In fact he was often on my side on threads or remained silent.
Only 1x I recall he had to reprimand both me and Guzman and it was like a finger wag, and to be fair I gave Guzman a zinger that inadvertently insulted like 5 people who then tagged Wolf Pack like crazy.

In fact he confided to me Mid Summer 17, something he volunteered to me. Because he trusted me. Why confide in me something, I’m sure Admin didn’t want any of us to know, if I was erratic or similar in any way to NL, or if he took any complaints by others about me seriously? He wouldn’t.

I think worse then disliking me he actually liked me, but because he was instructed to lie, he did. (this is my own educated guess I will never know for sure).
I think that he liked you. Here's what I remember.

I remember the fight with Guzam. He went after you on your woman-ness, which people had done before yet somehow that one seemed to affect you more. You fought back. Wolf Pack asked you not to do so. He said that there was no place for misogyny as there was no place for bald shaming, and that in the future you should tag him and count on him to clean up, rather than respond in kind to flames. You both did that for a while. When he said that he would crack down on the misogyny that you sometimes faced, he came off as sincere, and I think that he was. I believed him.

There was another fight that happened with another member a few weeks afterwards. You tagged WP and maybe the other mods a lot that weekend. They weren't intervening. I don't know if they were busy, or if they were unsure what to do. A thread was closed. Somebody else set up a coliseum thread as a joke. You went on for a horrifying 8 pages and you were banned, and the other guy was deleted.

*****

For what it's worth, I was, and you won't be surprised, happy/relieved about your ban. I changed my mind over the coming months as I saw that my opinion was the minority opinion, and I saw what happened when Rudiger and Bear were banned. What I wrote later on was that temporary bans should be the default for things that the moderators don't like. Permabans should be reserved for things like stalking, harassment, spam, and shilling products.

There was an entire thread about a month ago requesting that many of the recent bans be reversed, I also mentioned Baldhurts. They refused. HairLossTalk is not the first forum that I see undermined by bans.
PhD in Internalized Incelism.

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
I don't think he was receiving instructions from anyone, knowing Roberto and Admin (I also had private conversations with him in the past). All this mess originates from Wolf Pack in my opinion.

The confessions are also part of his power trip, he send that kind of message to me: "Bro, someone was requesting your ban but I told them no! Just wanted to let you know" Really, really. And I really thought "oh it's nice of him to tell me that, he's on my side!!".

He probably did something along those lines with all the major members. It's a way to get you under his thumb, if you start antagonizing him, he will remind you of what he did for you. "Remember the time I helped you? You're so ungrateful!"

Maybe he did ban me I don't know. I do think he is capable of it. But let me just say, he and I were not 'close' on PM at all..We only spoke about NL those 2 times.

It still does make sense to me what he said about the Admin being afraid to ban NL.

if you look at it, NL was seriously shitting up the research section for months if not a year (whenever he stopped posting in Impact).

it was a lot of work for both Roberto and WP to clean up those threads for a really long time (way before hellouser donation)

I know TONS of people from research were fighting with him, and tagging the Admin and mods, and they were never given a good explanation.

meanwhile simultaneously 30 day bans were being given out like candy in Impact for far less offensive comments.

So something mysterious was going on that NL not being banned...That the admin was afraid physically makes logical sense to me,. Maybe he has a family, I don't know.

But let me reiterate, it was not so much the ban that bothered me to much, it was the lying, repeatedly, blatantly. It was like someone pouring salt in a wound...that felt personal. The ban didn't.

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 year ago
I think that he liked you. Here's what I remember.

I remember the fight with Guzam. He went after you on your woman-ness, which people had done before yet somehow that one seemed to affect you more. You fought back. Wolf Pack asked you not to do so. He said that there was no place for misogyny as there was no place for bald shaming, and that in the future you should tag him and count on him to clean up, rather than respond in kind to flames. You both did that for a while. When he said that he would crack down on the misogyny that you sometimes faced, he came off as sincere, and I think that he was. I believed him.

There was another fight that happened with another member a few weeks afterwards. You tagged Wolf Pack and maybe the other mods a lot that weekend. They weren't intervening. I don't know if they were busy, or if they were unsure what to do. A thread was closed. Somebody else set up a coliseum thread as a joke. You went on for a horrifying 8 pages and you were banned, and the other guy was deleted.

*****

For what it's worth, I was, and you won't be surprised, happy/relieved about your ban. I changed my mind over the coming months as I saw that my opinion was the minority opinion, and I saw what happened when Rudiger and Bear were banned. What I wrote later on was that temporary bans should be the default for things that the moderators don't like. Permabans should be reserved for things like stalking, harassment, spam, and shilling products.

There was an entire thread about a month ago requesting that many of the recent bans be reversed, I also mentioned Baldhurts. They refused. HairLossTalk is not the first forum that I see undermined by bans.

I think what happened is you would catch parts of things that happened but not all of it, which is understandable.

Guzman for example had been trolling me for a while, mostly with really stupid comments, really like harmless shit..nothing too crazy., He was annoying but outside of me a lot of his posts were actually really good.
WP saw one of these exchanges and whatever Guzman had said to me at the time bothered WP and he said something to him on the thread..so I think Guzman was on WP radar already, so to speak.
I honestly do not think I tagged WP about Guzman, because I didn't start tagging mods until i was told to do so which was after the vagina incident, which he wrote on the thread i believe.

What Guzman did was put the photo of the vagina, which was really gross, and he made a comment that was gross. And I gave him a zinger back. Ironic, he actually 'liked' the post if i remember correctly and i think even LOL' on his response..(it's a while ago I really can be mistaken i would love if someone found the thread would be interesting to see how accurate my memory is).
Anyway I remember you and WhitePolarBear and CF being upset (which to be honest for you and WhitePolarBear, I found it to be convenient outrage at the time, more personal then real hurt feelings), several of you taged WP I believe, i think you suggested I be banned.
WP made his comment, and said something like for me to tag him rather then push back on someone when fighting.
Before that i don't think i ever tagged any mods for comments.

A new member joined Redpill....you, me , ruddier, zichron were ALL fighting/debatign with him on a thread.
He made a post, and I completely read it opposite as to what he actually wrote...and I realized this mistake on my own, and sincerely on the thread apologized to him, and offered up myself that it was my bad and I read his post wrong..
Fair enough right? For most people would move past it right?
No.

This guy came at me for weeks, tagging me in random discussions I was not even a part of.
I would go read and he would be trolling me to fight/debate..it was weird because I had no relationship with him no history and he started to get like personal about it..I think because he was 'new' it bugged me because if WhitePolarBear did that, it would not have bugged me because we had a history of debates/fights..but this dude was out of the ether and annoying as fuck to me.

I did say something to Roberto in private about it I believe about it, and he said that he was being annoying but not breaking rules, and that was it I think
I put him on ignore.
There was one other dude who joined and the first day he joined was quoting all my posts and calling me a twat, i tagged roberto/or sent him a PM and he banned him because he said people had to offer some value and it was clear he joined to just be belligerent.

the NL fights I think I told you guys already, the mods (supposedly at least, this is what i was told) were instructed to handle him on boards as if he was equally at fault with other people, like not to blame him. If that was BS fed to me, I don't know.

I know you saw me as a bully, but if I was a bully so many people would not have liked me or wanted me back or felt it was unjust i was expelled.
The moderators never spoke to me about my 'behavior' or my fighting.
Not roberto or WP, other than a few 'knock it off's on the threads, here or there which most of us got at some point.
Example, all our fights, I honestly don't recall any moderator addressing on threads I overstepped, if so it is unmemorable.

If they were saying something else to you in private, then that is news to me. Because nothing was ever said to me in private or on threads.

I never once complained about you to mods.
I never tried to get you banned or kicked off the site.
And as much as you felt harassed by me, i felt harassed by you.
As much as you thought i had a temper and would be belligerent fighting with others, I felt you had a temper and were in your own words/vocabulary belligerent and fought with others.

I'm not saying this to fight or stir up shit, I definitely don't want to do that, I just want you to understand my perspective.

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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 year ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 year ago
I think what happened is you would catch parts of things that happened but not all of it, which is understandable.

Guzman for example had been trolling me for a while, mostly with really stupid comments, really like harmless shit..nothing too crazy., He was annoying but outside of me a lot of his posts were actually really good.
Wolf Pack saw one of these exchanges and whatever Guzman had said to me at the time bothered Wolf Pack and he said something to him on the thread..so I think Guzman was on Wolf Pack radar already, so to speak.
I honestly do not think I tagged Wolf Pack about Guzman, because I didn't start tagging mods until i was told to do so which was after the vagina incident, which he wrote on the thread i believe.

What Guzman did was put the photo of the vagina, which was really gross, and he made a comment that was gross. And I gave him a zinger back. Ironic, he actually 'liked' the post if i remember correctly and i think even LOL' on his response..(it's a while ago I really can be mistaken i would love if someone found the thread would be interesting to see how accurate my memory is).
Anyway I remember you and WhitePolarBear and CF being upset (which to be honest for you and WhitePolarBear, I found it to be convenient outrage at the time, more personal then real hurt feelings), several of you taged Wolf Pack I believe, i think you suggested I be banned.
Wolf Pack made his comment, and said something like for me to tag him rather then push back on someone when fighting.
Before that i don't think i ever tagged any mods for comments.

A new member joined Redpill....you, me , ruddier, zichron were ALL fighting/debatign with him on a thread.
He made a post, and I completely read it opposite as to what he actually wrote...and I realized this mistake on my own, and sincerely on the thread apologized to him, and offered up myself that it was my bad and I read his post wrong..
Fair enough right? For most people would move past it right?
No.

This guy came at me for weeks, tagging me in random discussions I was not even a part of.
I would go read and he would be trolling me to fight/debate..it was weird because I had no relationship with him no history and he started to get like personal about it..I think because he was 'new' it bugged me because if WhitePolarBear did that, it would not have bugged me because we had a history of debates/fights..but this dude was out of the ether and annoying as fuck to me.

I did say something to Roberto in private about it I believe about it, and he said that he was being annoying but not breaking rules, and that was it I think
I put him on ignore.
There was one other dude who joined and the first day he joined was quoting all my posts and calling me a twat, i tagged roberto/or sent him a PM and he banned him because he said people had to offer some value and it was clear he joined to just be belligerent.

the NL fights I think I told you guys already, the mods (supposedly at least, this is what i was told) were instructed to handle him on boards as if he was equally at fault with other people, like not to blame him. If that was BS fed to me, I don't know.

I know you saw me as a bully, but if I was a bully so many people would not have liked me or wanted me back or felt it was unjust i was expelled.
The moderators never spoke to me about my 'behavior' or my fighting.
Not roberto or Wolf Pack, other than a few 'knock it off's on the threads, here or there which most of us got at some point.
Example, all our fights, I honestly don't recall any moderator addressing on threads I overstepped, if so it is unmemorable.

If they were saying something else to you in private, then that is news to me. Because nothing was ever said to me in private or on threads.

I never once complained about you to mods.
I never tried to get you banned or kicked off the site.
And as much as you felt harassed by me, i felt harassed by you.
As much as you thought i had a temper and would be belligerent fighting with others, I felt you had a temper and were in your own words/vocabulary belligerent and fought with others.

I'm not saying this to fight or stir up shit, I definitely don't want to do that, I just want you to understand my perspective.
Thanks for this. You're right, I left out some stuff. Some of it because I forgot about it, some of it I think that I had not even noticed in the first place. For example I don't recall Guzam posting the vagina pic. Perhaps it was deleted by the time that I logged on. The "redpill" poster I vaguely recall, he wasn't really on my radar.

I don't think that you're trying to stir up shit. Your post reads very matter-of-factly, if you were trying to stir up shit you possibly wouldn't bother explaining things in as much detail, and you might have some colorful spin as well. I appreciate you giving me a chance, and taking your time to write things out, as it likely reduces the possibility of fighting in the future.

And you're right I was sometimes a bully. For example I'd get excited if someone else was fighting with you, that was an ugly side of me and more worthy of an 10 year-old. I am sorry. That must be annoying to deal with, as if you're dealing with somebody else for whatever reason, you might worry that the third party will come in and intervene without regard to the actual discussion taking place. It adds an unfair, unrequested, and undeserved stress.

It's not healthy and it's not mature, in either real life or on a message board. In the future I hope to avoid this by understanding myself better so that things don't progress that far. For example, I likely projected general issues of woman-ness onto you, which gives you some baggage which is not actually intrinsic to you. Sometimes I'd force myself to be civil when I was angry inside, which would lead to the anger coming out later, when it would have been better to just acknowledge things earlier on, rather than trying to be a Buddhist monk.

JeanLucBB wrote at a later point that you fulfilled a useful purpose (among other useful purposes) in that you counterbalanced the woman-hating ultra-incels. That's true. It's invaluably constructive for these kinds of communities to have an outspoken, experienced, and no-bullshit woman like you around. Also, you've had success trading your hair loss and you were willing to discuss that in detail.
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Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by Hairblues » 1 year ago

Thank you for saying all that.

I can’t write more at moment, but I wanted to make sure I said thank you :)

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Not seeing friends

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

A community defines a website. It's the same way with a rock band.

Not seeing D'Arcy in the Smashing Pumpkins is one thing, but watching her
being a "second gun" to another hired musician, and then seeing her own
band turn on her (except Iha), is another. It's beyond fucked up. Watching
Lindsey get trashed by his former workers, after almost forty years together,
is too fucked up to see.

Let's not become like one of those bands. Seriously, it's been too fucking long,
and now we don't have to wait to keep in touch here.

When I don't hear from my friends for a long time, I start to lose interest. I haven't
heard from quite a few people I used to follow, and it just gets fucking harder
as I get older, in my own experience.

It's like having a friend who has kids and moves away, you never hear from them
anymore.

This website is a new opportunity for all of us.

I really hope we don't turn into "that band", that nobody wants to see, because
they fucked their own members over, or because their relationships
have become dead. That's just fucking sad, especially now that we have
a website to keep in touch.
Think happy thoughts.

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Question for banned HairLossTalk members

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

If HairLossTalk issues a public apology and unbanned each of you (Admin, Rudiger, and Hairblues),
would you come back?

(Of course, your avatar's would be on the most liked list, you would knock the two
moderators off!)
Think happy thoughts.

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Re: Question for banned HairLossTalk members

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

rclark wrote:
1 year ago
If HairLossTalk issues a public apology and unbanned each of you (Admin, Rudiger, and Hairblues),
would you come back?

(Of course, your avatar's would be on the most liked list, you would knock the two
moderators off!)
I was hoping for that and did everything I could to make it happen before I launched my blog and then this forum, with the help of dozens of members who also contacted the administrator to explain the situation. But he would not budge.

There would need to be too many conditions to be met for me to come back. An apology from Admin yes, but most importantly, Wolf Pack and Roberto would have to be stripped of their moderator privileges and replaced with ethical people.

I found out that even though they permanently banned, they refuse to delete my posts because it would create a huge hole on Google. I'm banned because I'm supposed to be this useless and dangerous troublemaker, but they can't delete my 9000 useless and dangerous posts, right?

My main way to keep on fighting now is to cast them into irrelevancy through the building and branding of this website while also exposing the devious practices over there.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

User avatar
rclark
Hair Loss Guru
Hair Loss Guru
Posts: 1285
Joined: 1 year ago
Reputation: 1526
Norwood: NW4
Regimen: Finasteride 1 mg daily, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Question for banned HairLossTalk members

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
I was hoping for that and did everything I could to make it happen before I launched my blog and then this forum, with the help of dozens of members who also contacted the administrator to explain the situation. But he would not budge.

There would need to be too many conditions to be met for me to come back. An apology from Admin yes, but most importantly, Wolf Pack and Roberto would have to be stripped of their moderator privileges and replaced with ethical people.

I found out that even though they permanently banned, they refuse to delete my posts because it would create a huge hole on Google. I'm banned because I'm supposed to be this useless and dangerous troublemaker, but they can't delete my 9000 useless and dangerous posts, right?

My main way to keep on fighting now is to cast them into irrelevancy through the building and branding of this website while also exposing the devious practices over there.
Look, I'm not gonna be Roberto's white knight. If you feel raw about it, then you
should write about it. I won't stand in anybody's way. Same goes for the Admin
as well.

As for taking action, good for you. Not many people have the balls to do that
these days.
Think happy thoughts.

User avatar
rclark
Hair Loss Guru
Hair Loss Guru
Posts: 1285
Joined: 1 year ago
Reputation: 1526
Norwood: NW4
Regimen: Finasteride 1 mg daily, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Can a band survive after turning on their own members?

Post by rclark » 10 months ago

There is a band called WASP, and the singer Blackie Lawless fired the original bad members, in
addition to the newer band members.

It's interesting that the original band members have recruited a singer, and might go on tour
with the original singer. They perform the same set of songs.
Think happy thoughts.

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