Xexos wrote: ↑
9 months ago
And to the second question, why is there's suffering in this world ? Because life doesn't matter.
Here it is again, the absolutely crucial difference between Christianity and Islam. Which makes it so difficult for Christians to devalue any human life, and so easy for genocidal radical Muslims to literally make dozens of human beings explode along with themselves.
Yes I know you have a bag full of rationalizations to attack that reality, but that's just how reality has laid itself out, it's the world we live in, there are virtually no Christians or Jews who blow themselves and other innocents while shouting "God is great/the peace of Christ"! That's because you can't use Christianity to enable and justify such atrocities.
While even if it's misinterpreted, even if you'll claim that those people are stupid and cannot read, they find something in those books, in that ideology, in that cultural framework that quite easily leads them there.
Xexos wrote: ↑
9 months ago
tried to poison him and that poison was eventually responsible for his death
again used magic to harm him
13-1400 years later, people still insult him and hate him when they have never even met or saw him or have any knowledge about him other than the media
Other prophets also suffered like prophet Jacob who went BLIND from how much he cried for losing his two most beloved sons, and prophet Issa (Jesus) who was tortured with his followers and had his mother being called whores by the Jews
And then yeah, there is the inevitable antisemitism, part of the package I guess. Truly admirable, life doesn't matter, God sends humans to the eternal flames of hell and also, Jews are evil, I'm sure Evil is sold!
My turn now :p.
To pick up where Xexos left off after that statement that life doesn't matter: Christians also believe (This will get complicated already, but I'll go back to more simple ideas in a second): you will not be saved unless everyone else is saved. We all know this deeply, and it's why we have that deep feeling of joy during a movie when they make sure that seemingly expandable person the protagonists could have left to die miraculously get saved. It's also something that happens regularly in real life, again for those who are able to see it.
God loves us all and believes we can all be saved. And it's the holding on to that belief that will eventually redeem mankind. This belief is at the basis of our Western legal systems: the presumption of innocence, the fact that it's extremely hard to have someone convicted, the idea that it's better that 100 guilty men go free that one innocent man ends up behind bars or in some parts of the West, dead. This is also an idea that you can't ever compromise on, and sadly it is actually flipped on its head outside of the Christian West: where sharia is the law of the land, get/pay 4 witnesses and you can get anyone imprisoned or killed. Again, we see daily where those ideas get us.
Science was never meant to be opposed to religion, and some scientists have tried to reconcile the two, like Carl Jung and Jean Piaget, but even they have failed to reach mainstream atheists and agnostics. On the other side you have religious fundamentalists who think they have to give up all the science contradicting their religious texts, or so they think. The truth is that our world doesn't run primarily on science, and it never will (sorry Sam Harris and the atheists who still believe in that pipe dream).
Our world runs on trust, and for a while, many people in the West have put their trust in science, reason, logic and technological progress to solve its problems. And I myself have traveled to the end of that journey, only to realize that it was a dead-end. You've exhausted all possible rational answer, and no that Scientific American in your bookmarks is never going to give you the answers you want.
The first extremely intense moment I felt that something was changing in me was right after I met my fiancée. As many of you know, she wasn't the only one at the time, I was still dating around, and of course, at first I thought "let's be rational here, think about muh science, be rational, I'm sure you could just keep your old lifestyle, just sleep around, the hedonism, the freedom!", and that's when it started, this feeling I was burning from the inside.
There is this idea in Christianity, and I guess Judaism that if someone sees the face of God, they will die. And it seems that God only partly reveals himself to you in your lowest moments so to speak, like when I had to make the choice to go exclusive with my girlfriend, it's like I had to do it to make the the shame, the pain, that burning sensation go away, it was sort of a sacrifice to God, and deep down, I knew it was what I had to do. So I did.
Only months before that, that moment would have been impossible for me to even conceive. In the space of a few months, I go from "I'll never get married" to that discussion with my fiancée after one month of dating: "I want to get married and have children with you!" and I'm like "Oh yeah sure, that sounds like a wonderful idea!"
And somehow, as you make good choices, choices that please God, the path forward becomes clearer. And I keep making weird decisions in the face of that shame, that sensation that I'm lacking, like starting to lift weights for example, after having like written a book rationalizing how I'd never do it on hair loss forums :p.
In mid-2017 I'm exposed to the one person who has managed to move a ball that no one has managed to move in the history of mankind, at least on such a large scale: Jordan Peterson shows me the way out of atheism. Sadly this was not something instantaneous, this only starts happening after watching hundreds of hours of his content. And this time it's not a burning sensation, more like a sensation that I'm going mad, but it's pleasant somehow, it was a feeling that my mind was restructuring, I cannot put it better than that.
But that still didn't do it, even though Jordan Peterson made me believe in God again, I was not a Christian, and it was Jonathan Pageau, an Orthodox icon carver who led me down the path to become a Christian. You'd think my conversion it was all roses and rainbows but one thing that has definitely sped up the process is an encounter with evil (not you :p, actual evil), and seeing what happens when you confront it head on. It makes you realize more than anything else of how our world is properly set to reward those who try to follow God (shit I really sound like those guys now :p). I will not say more but most of you here will know what I'm talking about: after all, that confrontation with evil created this very website and community.
And that leads me to the difference between evil and tragedy, which was your initial question, and I'll let younger Jordan Peterson answer that one, (and sorry, I first put a 2 minute summary of that video but that just won't do it):
So here I am now, preparing my Christian wedding, going to church regularly, having to hold my tears during every mass because all of it is just all too damn beautiful, which is not a good look in front of my fiancée but she understands :p. Unlike Xexos, I know I can't convince you that I'm right as it's a pathway you have to experience for yourself, if you're willing to to take it voluntarily. All I can say, for myself, is that there is simply no comparison between my life before Christianity and after it. Everything is so much better I can't believe it, and it's not comparable to the fleeting self-delusion and shallow sense of happiness a self-help book will give you for a couple of days, trust me I knew all about that. It's a lasting, genuine happiness that truly sustains you in the face of the inevitable tragedies of life.