Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

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Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

As some of you know, when I was looking for a hair transplant surgeon back in 2013, I was immediately turned down by two clinics: the prohairclinic and the BHR clinic (Bisanga's) for having too advanced hair loss at a young age.

Yet as I'm browsing Instagram today, I see this young fella with a full-blow NW6 and a seemingly average donor area and hair caliber got nearly 6000 grafts at Bisanga's clinic. So what is the difference between me and him?

My best guess would be that he accepted to go on finasteride after the hair transplant, as if that would make any significant difference at that stage.

As could be expected, the final result is lightly see-through under bright ligths, but still, it's day and night compared to the before picture.

For some surgeons, it seems you have to be on finasteride or they won't touch you. I clearly remember Bisanga telling me that when it comes to a hair transplant, you want to have one and be set for life. Yeah that's a very realistic expectation. This might be my residual resentment talking here, at the time, I was quite pissed to hear that as a 23 year old NW5-6, I was doomed to remain bald or to wig it up for the rest of my life.

As I'm heading towards my last FUE hair transplant for a total of 5000 grafts, I now see that these clinics were wrong, but I can understand that they potentially wanted to avoid a dissatisfied patient or a bad result.

I took precautions as I always had to possibility of supplementing with SMP and beard grafts (I'm 6 months in putting minoxidil on my face) in case my final result wasn't decently thick enough in some areas (currently a bit worried about that after the treatment of my crown in February). I also never went off minoxidil, for what it's worth.

Also the above case really reassures me when it comes to potentially have my donor area overharvested (and getting that moth-eaten look), if that guy could get away with 6000 grafts through FUE, I'll be more than safe with around 5000. So I guess I can trust De Reys with his judgement, he wouldn't do it if he wasn't confident it was going to work out.

It's also interesting to see this result and then go watch the video of this bozo:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=228&p=543#p5824

@JeanLucBB is right, a lot of hair transplant surgeons have no clue about good donor management and what can be achieved with enough knowledge and experience.

So I understand @thethirdman's frustration when surgeons tell him that they're not candidates for a hair transplant. I think one of the keys to being accepted by De Reys was that this time before the consultation, I grew a full grandpa horseshoe (hard times guys) before I went to see him. Buzzed hair can really give the impression that your donor is thinning, especially if you have blond hair.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

Have no idea about transplants, but I really think you should stay where you are at.

That's just my opinion. The donor area is probably going to get low at some point?
Think happy thoughts.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

rclark wrote:
1 year ago
Have no idea about transplants, but I really think you should stay where you are at.

That's just my opinion. The donor area is probably going to get low at some point?
I still have some donor to exploit and most importantly, a goddamn bald spot on the back of my head. The above case as well as @JeanLucBB's broad knowledge about donor management give me the confidence that I can still move around a 1000 grafts on my crown.

No way I'm just going to keep on walking around with a bald crown if something can be done about it. Now as I've said, I always keep complentary solutions in mind if something goes wrong, like not getting enough coverage or overharvesting my donor.

SMP for example, which can do wonders if you already have some coverage, here's an example by Dr. Feriduni's clinic:



It is if course combined with a hair transplant here. It always should be in my opinion.

And other than that, I have plenty of beard grafts I could sprinkle here and there on my crown. But of course I hope new solutions for hair loss get on the market while I'm busy with all this :).
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Murkey Thumb » 1 year ago

Some surgeons just look at you as a commercial being. When I went to see three surgeons in the UK I took a picture of myself from 10 years earlier(Norwood 2) and asked if they could restore my hair to what it was previously. They all said yes that I had at least 7000 grafts to play with but 2 of them said they could do it with 1500 grafts another said 3000, although that was FUT so I ruled it out.

I got the feeling that they were sizing me up for how much money I was willing to spend or how much they could potentially get out of me. Being naive I went for the 1500 grafts and ended up looking nothing like I had 10 years earlier or even having that much coverage. When I asked why he hadn't addressed my crown he said I would need another surgery to get that covered. Why didn't he just do it at the time of the first surgery? I would have paid for the extra grafts because that is what I wanted. I get the feeling that it was down to a financial advantage to be gained in multiple surgeries rather than the usual excuses he gave.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by layabout » 1 year ago

The difference is that that guy still has hair around his crown, flanking where his hair would whorl. Your crown is completely bald.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Murkey Thumb wrote:
1 year ago
Some surgeons just look at you as a commercial being. When I went to see three surgeons in the UK I took a picture of myself from 10 years earlier(Norwood 2) and asked if they could restore my hair to what it was previously. They all said yes that I had at least 7000 grafts to play with but 2 of them said they could do it with 1500 grafts another said 3000, although that was FUT so I ruled it out.

I got the feeling that they were sizing me up for how much money I was willing to spend or how much they could potentially get out of me. Being naive I went for the 1500 grafts and ended up looking nothing like I had 10 years earlier or even having that much coverage. When I asked why he hadn't addressed my crown he said I would need another surgery to get that covered. Why didn't he just do it at the time of the first surgery? I would have paid for the extra grafts because that is what I wanted. I get the feeling that it was down to a financial advantage to be gained in multiple surgeries rather than the usual excuses he gave.
True, I've never met such surgeons, thank God. I was turned down by Bisanga and prohairclinic and even De Reys was hesitant to do it. He only realized it was indeed a good idea after he started harvesting the grafts. My buzz cut gave the impression that there was nearly nothing there, to the point that even an experienced surgeon could be fooled.

It's not wonder that UK surgeons are shunned in the hair transplant community. This is the last Western country you should go to to have a hair transplant. Ethics should come way before money on their hierarchy of values. As Bisanga told me: "I may make less money because I turn down many patients, but at least I'm able to sleep at night."
layabout wrote:
1 year ago
The difference is that that guy still has hair around his crown, flanking where his hair would whorl. Your crown is completely bald.
It's true that the surface to cover was smaller for him, but that doesn't change the fact that Bisanga was able to extract 6000 grafts from his safe zone despite the fact that he had obviously below-average hair density and caliber. The only difference in that regard with me would be that he's probably taking finasteride, in case he becomes a thin NW7, which does happen in very rare cases. Bisanga really seemed stuck on the fact that I couldn't take finasteride.

About your last statement:

This is what a completely bald crown looks like in my opinion:

Image

This is what my crown looks like:
FUE-back-6-months.jpg
FUE-back-6-months.jpg (104.95 KiB) Viewed 2393 times

So I don't think 'completely bald' is a very accurate use of language here. This is just what I think though, feel free to disagree.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

For me, a "completely bald" crown is a crown that you can't fix with Toppik.

Admin, you are anyway a tall guy. No one ever is going to see your crown. The manlets here that are under 1.80 have another pain to handle.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Arjen » 1 year ago

JasonStatham wrote:
1 year ago
Admin, you are anyway a tall guy. No one ever is going to see your crown. The manlets here that are under 1.80 have another pain to handle.
They are more agile though.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

JasonStatham wrote:
1 year ago
Admin, you are anyway a tall guy. No one ever is going to see your crown. The manlets here that are under 1.80 have another pain to handle.
Yeah it's something people will often tell me, the heavily balding crown tends to be a problem when I'm actually not interacting with people socially, so when they see me from afar, or when I'm sitting at work for example.

For people who only see me face to face, they usually don't notice, so if I mention my upcoming hair transplant, I usually have to turn around for them to notice. As I know from my own experience outside the world of hair loss, the vast majority of people just don't notice that sort of thing in other people, not consciously anyway.

That's many people who have gotten to know me complain about me turning them into Norwood spotters. They're like "ah this is so annoying Fred, now I always notice hair loss in other people!". I think most of us can relate.

What matters the most for yourself and others is the overall, subconscious perception of yourself, that immediate "ah, this is Fred, I recognize him, he has decent hair, the end." It never gets to "well, under that lightning you can see his scalp a little on the upper right" or "well, he's missing hair at the back so now I see him in a completely different light", thank God almost everyone out there doesn't focus on details.

So yes, being tall and having other features (like a good beard, some muscles, white teeth, etc.) that can distract from some hair loss to some extent are definitely useful. Almost everyone out there sees and react to the overall you, in short, the real world is not a BDD-ridden place like HairlossTalk's current impact section or lookism. Who would want to live in that world anyway, but some people seem stuck in it.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

Arjen wrote:
1 year ago
They are more agile though.
Tinder Profil of a bald manlet:

"I'm bald and short but very agile and can outrun a Chad"

He will drown in pussy.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Murkey Thumb » 1 year ago

It will be very interesting to see how your crown surgery goes as its always been the worst part of my scalp. If it goes well with only 1k grafts I may just be persuaded to have another look at surgery. Good luck!

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Murkey Thumb wrote:
1 year ago
It will be very interesting to see how your crown surgery goes as its always been the worst part of my scalp. If it goes well with only 1k grafts I may just be persuaded to have another look at surgery. Good luck!
Like for my previous hair transplants, I always go into it keeping the safety nets in mind, and this time around they are:

- SMP in the donor area if it ends up looking 'moth-eaten' as they say in the hair transplantation community
- Beard grafts (which I'm thickening like mad by applying minoxidil on my face) to put between the regular transplanted hair if those 1000 grafts fall too short to look natural
- A combination of the above
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
Like for my previous hair transplants, I always go into it keeping the safety nets in mind, and this time around they are:

- SMP in the donor area if it ends up looking 'moth-eaten' as they say in the hair transplantation community
- Beard grafts (which I'm thickening like mad by applying minoxidil on my face) to put between the regular transplanted hair if those 1000 grafts fall too short to look natural
- A combination of the above
I heard about a guy even using pubic hair. Whatever it takes I guess. But he used it for the hair line which...yeah does not look good.
I actually wouldn't mind filling my crown with pubic hair.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by layabout » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
True, I've never met such surgeons, thank God. I was turned down by Bisanga and prohairclinic and even De Reys was hesitant to do it. He only realized it was indeed a good idea after he started harvesting the grafts. My buzz cut gave the impression that there was nearly nothing there, to the point that even an experienced surgeon could be fooled.

It's not wonder that UK surgeons are shunned in the hair transplant community. This is the last Western country you should go to to have a hair transplant. Ethics should come way before money on their hierarchy of values. As Bisanga told me: "I may make less money because I turn down many patients, but at least I'm able to sleep at night."



It's true that the surface to cover was smaller for him, but that doesn't change the fact that Bisanga was able to extract 6000 grafts from his safe zone despite the fact that he had obviously below-average hair density and caliber. The only difference in that regard with me would be that he's probably taking finasteride, in case he becomes a thin NW7, which does happen in very rare cases. Bisanga really seemed stuck on the fact that I couldn't take finasteride.

About your last statement:

This is what a completely bald crown looks like in my opinion:

Image

This is what my crown looks like:

FUE-back-6-months.jpg


So I don't think 'completely bald' is a very accurate use of language here. This is just what I think though, feel free to disagree.
Your donor area looks very thin and that's the area that's supposed to be unaffected by DHT in regular male pattern baldness. Even your sides look very low density.

Added in 5 minutes 27 seconds:
@Admin Have you ever considered a hair piece? A high-end one? I think it would work well for you.

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Re: Inconsistencies in surgeons turning down patients - 5976 graft FUE on NW6

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

layabout wrote:
1 year ago
Your donor area looks very thin and that's the area that's supposed to be unaffected by DHT in regular male pattern baldness. Even your sides look very low density.

Added in 5 minutes 27 seconds:
@Admin Have you ever considered a hair piece? A high-end one? I think it would work well for you.
After 2 FUE of course his donor area will look thinner than normal. And he is balding since a very young age, so I don't think you can get better results. You have to realise where he came from. From a bald young guy to a guy with a hair line is quite a way.

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