50% of men regret their hair transplant

Discuss hair transplant techniques (FUE and FUT), surgeons, results, etc.
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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Arjen wrote:
1 year ago
What I've considered is having a state of the art wig (shouldn't cost me more than 1k) made and wear it for 2 weeks of holidays, just to see if I get a significant increase in indicators of interest. That would probably convince me to do it and also give me reassurance about the rest of my looks.
It's guaranteed, of course more women will look at you and show interest. I'm experiencing it first-hand right now. I wouldn't believe it would happen before too, if you go read my older posts on HairlossTalk, I thought that going from a shaved head (after my first hair transplant) to a normal grown-out head of hair wouldn't make much a difference.

That was a cope right there. The change was substantial. There is no such thing as state of the art wig by the way, a wig remains a fucking wig, it will always be hair that you glue to your scalp, there is barely any difference between the hair pieces Charlton Eston and Humphrey Bogart used back in the day and what is being made today.

The anecdotal evidence for that is that before I told you, your probably didn't know that those actors wore a hair piece for half their careers.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Arjen » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
It's guaranteed, of course more women will look at you and show interest. I'm experiencing it first-hand right now. I wouldn't believe it would happen before too, if you go read my older posts on HairlossTalk, I thought that going from a shaved head (after my first hair transplant) to a normal grown-out head of hair wouldn't make much a difference.

That was a cope right there. The change was substantial. There is no such thing as state of the art wig by the way, a wig remains a fucking wig, it will always be hair that you glue to your scalp, there is barely any difference between the hair pieces Charlton Eston and Humphrey Bogart used back in the day and what is being made today.

The anecdotal evidence for that is that before I told you, your probably didn't know that those actors wore a hair piece for half their careers.
Sounds disgusting.

And I truly believe you are not exaggerating the change you noticed, but a close friend I am together with a lot and has comparable looks to mine PLUS hair barely gets those signs, let alone by girls 6+.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Arjen wrote:
1 year ago
Sounds disgusting.
Wut? :lol:
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Arjen » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
Wut? :lol:
Your crushing revelations about wigs. :P

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Hanginginthewire » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
There are no contradictions because some claims have more value than others when put into perspective.

Again, FUT can't be recommended anymore. having a giant joker scar at the back of your head is a hurdle you don't want to bother with anymore.

Yield between FUE and FUT is basically the same, maybe something like 94% for FUE and 97% for FUT, it just doesn't justify the huge scar anymore.

And if you go for FUT because you're trying to save money, I can tell you already, do not have a hair transplant, it's not a surgery on which you want to save a few bucks.

Do not listen to catchphrases you head online like "you'll need FUT if you're above NW4", my own case proves that it's just not true, even though I still need one last FUE, 5000 grafts will in fact take care of my NW5-6.

Also, I'd say you need to take the time factor into account. "FUT is the gold standard" is like a marketing slogan from Hasson & Wong made in 2006. Most of the statements above are just not true anymore.

Of course diffusers can have a hair transplant, I was one and already had two.

My last point would be: research hair transplants as much as you can, but don't get to the point where it's counterproductive. If you're serious about this like I was, you'll need to make a choice at a point. Having my hair transplants wasn't just an option for me, I just had to do it, it was a leap of faith and I knew I would not live in the alternate reality where I'd remain a slick NW5-6 from age 22 onward.

If you don't feel the urgency to have a hair transplant yet, you're most likely not bald enough.
Thanks, appreciate your advice a lot. What do you think of the claim that FUE “destroys” the donor area, or the claim that FUE takes hairs from outside the safe zone?

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote:
1 year ago
Thanks, appreciate your advice a lot. What do you think of the claim that FUE “destroys” the donor area, or the claim that FUE takes hairs from outside the safe zone?
Wrong and wrong. After 4000 grafts extracted, my donor still looks fine even if cut very short.

And my surgeon certainly didn't venture outside the safe zone, so much that I have a little tuft of hair right below my donor, nothing major but you can see that a good surgeon will be careful and never try to use hair from the NW6 area.

FUE is the norm now, as it should be. 5000 grafts will already produce quite a satisfactory result on the vast majority of NW6 patients.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by rclark » 1 year ago

Johnson wrote:
1 year ago
You're so lucky to respond to meds so well when you are over 40 years old.

Are most of your childhood friends also balding now?

It sounds weird, but i always found it comforting when you see people of a similar age showing signs of hair loss.
Yes, there are people my age on the same level as me. It's strange seeing guys on my age that have less hair loss
than me.

For me, I think I am a good responder to Finasteride. I just didn't want to use it because of
the fear of erectile dysfunction, which is real, as I know men my age that have it from
Finasteride.

I also believe that if I used Finasteride in my thirties, I would probably be a Norwood II now, and
wouldn't have to use topical Progesterone for hairloss.

If I used an anti androgen in my twenties, I would be a Norwood zero or one by now.
Think happy thoughts.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Hanginginthewire » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
Wrong and wrong. After 4000 grafts extracted, my donor still looks fine even if cut very short.

And my surgeon certainly didn't venture outside the safe zone, so much that I have a little tuft of hair right below my donor, nothing major but you can see that a good surgeon will be careful and never try to use hair from the NW6 area.

FUE is the norm now, as it should be. 5000 grafts will already produce quite a satisfactory result on the vast majority of NW6 patients.
Sorry to belabor this, but I’ve been dwelling on these topics for years at this point.

Why do you think that so many elite surgeons - ones who do FUT and FUE - suggest starting with FUT then switching to FUE? It can’t be attributed to sheer greed, as the initial FUT is cheaper. And I wouldn’t think it was laziness, as they do in fact perform the more laborious FUE. Just not on the first surgery. It’s much easier to pull the trigger on a FUE, so you’d think unethical doctors would push FUE to get tentative patients in the chair.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote:
1 year ago
Sorry to belabor this, but I’ve been dwelling on these topics for years at this point.

Why do you think that so many elite surgeons - ones who do FUT and FUE - suggest starting with FUT then switching to FUE? It can’t be attributed to sheer greed, as the initial FUT is cheaper. And I wouldn’t think it was laziness, as they do in fact perform the more laborious FUE. Just not on the first surgery. It’s much easier to pull the trigger on a FUE, so you’d think unethical doctors would push FUE to get tentative patients in the chair.
They're bozos.

My surgeon (De Reys) does not even do FUT's.

There are reasons for that.

FUT is just outdated now, and it's not worth the trouble anymore, even to harvest more grafts.

Most NW6's will look fine with 5000 grafts from FUE.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by JLBB » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote:
1 year ago
Sorry to belabor this, but I’ve been dwelling on these topics for years at this point.

Why do you think that so many elite surgeons - ones who do FUT and FUE - suggest starting with FUT then switching to FUE? It can’t be attributed to sheer greed, as the initial FUT is cheaper. And I wouldn’t think it was laziness, as they do in fact perform the more laborious FUE. Just not on the first surgery. It’s much easier to pull the trigger on a FUE, so you’d think unethical doctors would push FUE to get tentative patients in the chair.
FUT is only cheaper in terms of looking at prices in the United States, if you consider Europe and Asia where lower currency values, wages and rent drop prices significantly then FUE is still cheaper than FUT with a US or Canadian surgeon. The elite surgeons you are referring to are only from Canada and the US who stand to lose business without marketing the benefits of FUT, as they cannot perform FUE at the same low prices as elsewhere for the aforementioned reasons. That is the reality.

When you say they do in fact perform the more laborious FUE, in an absolute and objective sense they are less competent at it, moving significantly less grafts at far lower speeds and with lower yields. In fact surgeons like Freitas, Erdogan, Lorenzo and Couto have yields and results better in every sense than 99% of FUT surgeries by US surgeons. And for what reason are they less competent at FUE? Simply they cannot provide the same high graft numbers at prices people can afford and therefore do not get the experience with it, and simultaneously when doing both FUT and FUE inevitably are not as skilled at FUE as a clinic completely focused on it.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Hanginginthewire » 1 year ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
1 year ago
FUT is only cheaper in terms of looking at prices in the United States, if you consider Europe and Asia where lower currency values, wages and rent drop prices significantly then FUE is still cheaper than FUT with a US or Canadian surgeon. The elite surgeons you are referring to are only from Canada and the US who stand to lose business without marketing the benefits of FUT, as they cannot perform FUE at the same low prices as elsewhere for the aforementioned reasons. That is the reality.

When you say they do in fact perform the more laborious FUE, in an absolute and objective sense they are less competent at it, moving significantly less grafts at far lower speeds and with lower yields. In fact surgeons like Freitas, Erdogan, Lorenzo and Couto have yields and results better in every sense than 99% of FUT surgeries by US surgeons. And for what reason are they less competent at FUE? Simply they cannot provide the same high graft numbers at prices people can afford and therefore do not get the experience with it, and simultaneously when doing both FUT and FUE inevitably are not as skilled at FUE as a clinic completely focused on it.
Thanks a lot, that does make some sense. May I ask what your take is on the “FUE destroys the donor zone” and the “FUE doesn’t use the ‘sweet spot’ of the safe zone” arguments? Do you think the presence of retrograde makes FUE ill advised?

What instances - if any - do you think call for FUT?

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Johnson » 1 year ago

This crossed my mind recently at work because we have a 50 year old man who is retrograde nw7.

I keep looking at his donor area and thinking how if he had a transplant at 21 those hairs would be long dead by now.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Johnson wrote:
1 year ago
This crossed my mind recently at work because we have a 50 year old man who is retrograde nw7.

I keep looking at his donor area and thinking how if he had a transplant at 21 those hairs would be long dead by now.
Those guys are very unfortunate but extremes exist for every phenomenon.

It's never much use to base one's decisions on exceptions.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by JLBB » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote:
1 year ago
Thanks a lot, that does make some sense. May I ask what your take is on the “FUE destroys the donor zone” and the “FUE doesn’t use the ‘sweet spot’ of the safe zone” arguments? Do you think the presence of retrograde makes FUE ill advised?

What instances - if any - do you think call for FUT?
If I was in Bear's situation I probably would have wanted a full NW1 with full crown coverage, and in that case gone with a single very large Hasson/Wong FUT session (5000+ grafts), and then opted for FUE beyond that. The idea that FUE doesn't use the "sweet spot" is just marketing nonsense, different areas of the donor have different textural qualities and broader use of the donor can allow for more natural application of a diverse range of grafts. Few surgeons are going to go outside the safe zone either and typically analyse where miniaturisation ends to avoid doing so. If there is actual evidence serious retrograde (not the natural thinness in that area that crazies on these types of forums freak out about) then FUT is the smarter option. This is not the norm though, less than 1/20.

The destroys the donor zone argument is only accurate in the sense that the magnitude of scarring will be greater than FUT, however the cosmetic impact is typically significantly less with medium/small sized manual punches. In zero circumstances have I seen reasonably sized manual punches cause so much damage in a single procedure that a months length of growth in the donor still has visible scarring, for FUT you see this often even with top surgeons. You don't have the same risk of stretched and raised scarring with FUE either. So this point is somewhat accurate in that FUE causes greater magnitude of scarring than FUT, but it isn't as cosmetically relevant as what FUT causes and it lacks the same serious risks that FUT carries.

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Re: 50% of men regret their hair transplant

Post by Hanginginthewire » 1 year ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
1 year ago
If I was in Bear's situation I probably would have wanted a full NW1 with full crown coverage, and in that case gone with a single very large Hasson/Wong FUT session (5000+ grafts), and then opted for FUE beyond that. The idea that FUE doesn't use the "sweet spot" is just marketing nonsense, different areas of the donor have different textural qualities and broader use of the donor can allow for more natural application of a diverse range of grafts. Few surgeons are going to go outside the safe zone either and typically analyse where miniaturisation ends to avoid doing so. If there is actual evidence serious retrograde (not the natural thinness in that area that crazies on these types of forums freak out about) then FUT is the smarter option. This is not the norm though, less than 1/20.

The destroys the donor zone argument is only accurate in the sense that the magnitude of scarring will be greater than FUT, however the cosmetic impact is typically significantly less with medium/small sized manual punches. In zero circumstances have I seen reasonably sized manual punches cause so much damage in a single procedure that a months length of growth in the donor still has visible scarring, for FUT you see this often even with top surgeons. You don't have the same risk of stretched and raised scarring with FUE either. So this point is somewhat accurate in that FUE causes greater magnitude of scarring than FUT, but it isn't as cosmetically relevant as what FUT causes and it lacks the same serious risks that FUT carries.
Another super informative post, thanks.

With regard to FUT and Bear, do you say that you’d do FUT first mostly just so you can do a huge mega session and avoid as many multiple surgeries? Is FUE perfectly acceptable for advanced Norwoods if that’s what they want? Given may require an extra surgery and more money?

I feel like I want to do FUE (because yes I want the option of buzzing down if I have to), but I’m a diffuse NW 5/6 with some retrograde, especially on the nape. My hair line is fairly bad but midscalp and crown have coverage when dry. Really unsure of what to do, but the less invasive nature and escape hatch (buzzing down) of FUE are appealing.

What are the possibilities of FUE looking freakish or unnatural? By which I mean a scenario where buzzing down/shaving and/or having another surgery would STILL leave someone with an unnatural look...

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