3353 graft FUE with Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 12 month results

Discuss hair transplant techniques (FUE and FUT), surgeons, results, etc.
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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by JLBB » 2 weeks ago

pjhair wrote:
2 weeks ago
Keser and Frietas are my top choices then. Hasson and Wong are good but the following result on an Indian patient has created some hesitation in my mind.

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/ ... ent-219415

https://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/b ... ROWTH/7062

That's a horrible result for 6000 grafts. It's especially bad as the procedure was FUT, a procedure with a better yield than FUE. It's a very small sample size and any surgeon can get bad results but it has planted a seed of doubt in my mind especially because the guy has similar physiology than mine. The guy must be devastated. He flew from India and probably had to save several years so that he could get the procedure (salaries in India weren't that high back in 2011). All he got in return was a joker scar at the back of his head.

The last pictures he posted were at 7.5 months mark. He never posted again which make me suspect that he didn't get much growth at one year mark.
Totally agree, however its virtually a decade ago which is a lifetime in the hair transplant industry, FUE was in its infancy at that point.

in my opinion I think you underestimate the number of failed cases even by top surgeons, In this case no surgeon is likely to understand the physiological or surgical issues that caused this to be a bad result. I would peg it at 3-5% of cases even among top surgeons ending up something like this, however also consider that all clinics methods including HnW will have improved and in many regards even over the past decade.

I totally get the seed of doubt it may cause, but without context of looking at a hundred cases from top surgeon after top surgeon it says very little about Dr. Hasson. Keser has various bad results, I haven't seen any with Freitas but the sample size of patient posted results is much smaller. The fact that its from so long ago also means I would virtually say throw it away entirely as a means of analysing who you want to go with. If you see a bad result from a surgeon that is considered top tier, unless you're basing your conclusion on a large sample size from a large community of doctors and their individual results it tells you virtually nothing other than that it is likely that a certain X factor (read unknown variable, not simply bad luck) that causes a surprisingly large amount of people to get poor results.

You see a lot less of this with surgeons like Keser and Konior in general as they are much slower in their approach, less grafts in a session and are doing everything individually which leads to less room for procedural fault, however even for these doctors they occur. Pekiner trained under Keser and takes a similar approach yet one patient had two surgeries with him, both failing for unknown reasons.

Result too long ago to be relevant, and it says nothing other than a statistical reality of hair transplants that no surgeon is free from poor results, there will be many you'll find with all of them if they have enough of a patient posted sample size to look at.

"The guy must be devastated. He flew from India and probably had to save several years so that he could get the procedure (salaries in India weren't that high back in 2011). All he got in return was a joker scar at the back of his head. "

This sort of thing is relevant for people considering whether they can afford a transplant and understand the risks, but it is purely an emotional argument, it doesn't say anything about this particular doctor. In your case, particularly as you are likely to undertake a comparatively small procedure there will be less time out of the body for the grafts which is of major benefit regardless of surgeon.

When you've seen as many cases from as many surgeons as I have, you tend to blame people's lack of a statistical approach to judging surgeons or naivety towards the idea of a guaranteed result much more than you will individual surgeons. The best piece of advice is look at as big of a sample size as you can of patient posted results from the surgeon, and secondly always mentally acknowledge there is a potential of needing two procedures to achieve good density because of that X factor, no matter the surgeon. Also consider their policy under a less than desireable result, some clinics like Diep's will basically tell you to fuck off, Hasson for example gave a written guarantee in advance to someone on another forum who asked of a refund if the result was poor. Most are in between and will offer a touchup.

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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by pjhair » 2 weeks ago

JLBB wrote:
2 weeks ago
I totally get the seed of doubt it may cause, but without context of looking at a hundred cases from top surgeon after top surgeon it says very little about Dr. Hasson. Keser has various bad results, I haven't seen any with Freitas but the sample size of patient posted results is much smaller. The fact that its from so long ago also means I would virtually say throw it away entirely as a means of analysing who you want to go with. If you see a bad result from a surgeon that is considered top tier, unless you're basing your conclusion on a large sample size from a large community of doctors and their individual results it tells you virtually nothing other than that it is likely that a certain X factor (read unknown variable, not simply bad luck) that causes a surprisingly large amount of people to get poor results.
You are right. Basing an opinion on a small sample size is a mistake.
JLBB wrote:
2 weeks ago
You see a lot less of this with surgeons like Keser and Konior in general as they are much slower in their approach, less grafts in a session and are doing everything individually which leads to less room for procedural fault, however even for these doctors they occur.
And that's exactly why I am drawn to Konior and Keser. I probably need around 1000 to 1500 grafts to reach my goal. I would prefer a doctor who gives me his undivided attention during the procedure.
JLBB wrote:
2 weeks ago
Also consider their policy under a less than desireable result, some clinics like Diep's will basically tell you to fuck off, Hasson for example gave a written guarantee in advance to someone on another forum who asked of a refund if the result was poor. Most are in between and will offer a touchup.
Ethics of a clinic is very important to me. I have seen some good results from Diep but I will never go to him. In North America, the only surgeons I am interested in so far are Konior and Feller/Bloxham(if i decide to get FUT).

By the way, I looked at Eugenix today. I noticed that in addition to FUE, they offer Dierect Hair Transplant, a different technique. Do you know anything about it? They claim it's better than FUE.

https://www.eugenix.in/direct-hair-transplant.html
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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by White Ferrari » 2 weeks ago

DerPapillus wrote:
2 weeks ago
I too had a shortlist of surgeons to do my transplant...and dr Lorenzo was one of three,
with dr Erdogan of Asmed completing the list. I had extended communication with all three
of them. While Lorenzo has great work ethics and results, he had a long waiting list. Asmed
kind of turned me down because of ''DUPA'' which at the time made me quite anxious, and
where Admin made me realize it was bullshit. I didn't have the best donor, but obviously not
nearly that bad. Also, Erdogan relies heavily on technicians not even overlooking all the
daily transplant taking place in his name (3-4 daily?) while Demirsoy does the heavy lifting
himself. I respect that, and it made me more comfortable.


As you can see, I came from a
rather shit place hair wise and thus chose a conservative hair line with minimal grafts possible
to cover all of the NW5 in order to preserve donor.

I am now happy with my hair, and am positive it will give me a peace of mind until more
effective procedures come to life. Until then, I can fully focus on other areas in my life
with hair once again being and looking the part reflecting how feel about myself.

by the way, I had taken finasteride for 8 months prior to surgery, and minoxidil + nizoral
for 1.5 years.

If you have any more questions, I will gladly try answering to my best knowledge and intentions.

Cheers
Lol what in the world, where does he see dupa?

You looked like a pretty ideal transplant candidate to me. Is your hair loss stabilized?

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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by DerPapillus » 2 weeks ago

White Ferrari wrote:
2 weeks ago
Lol what in the world, where does he see dupa?

You looked like a pretty ideal transplant candidate to me. Is your hair loss stabilized?
Haha...yea, well...I guess I had some degree of thinning on the sides, right behind the ears,
but it's just a very small degree of retrograde. It is seen better on some other pics that I'm too
lazy to crop ans edit. Admin has seen that thinning, and maybe his opinion can shed some
objectivity on the degree of retrogradeness :S

to be honest, I think those rigid classifications of
androgenetic alopecia don't tell very much of a specific hair condition, as I think it's very individual and not black/white.
In my case, I turned out to be an average/above average hair transplant candidate and the surgery was a success.

I began losing hair at 20 years..slowly progressing as years went by (NW3 at 23, NW4 at 27) well on my
way to NW5 by the time of the surgery. I was then nearing 30s. Is that stabilized? I guess we can never
know for sure, but what I know is that without any treatments, and if I live long enough..I will lose most
of my hair. But isn't transplant about buying time? I mean, I would most probably not opt for surgery if
hairloss struck me in my 50s. My current observation is like this:

From my experience and the looks of the pattern, I'll be NW5 by 50s or 60s (added finasteride 8 months
before surgery). That is atleast 20 years away. In those years I'll have hair, and I'll even have a
reserve option of adding another small hair transplant (1000 grafts) to compensate for any loss, but that will
prolly not be visible anyways, as most of the (cosmetic) hairs are transplanted. In the meantime I've
bought myself youth again, and I can just peacefully wait for Follica to give me a boost or Tsuji or whatever
whenever it becomes available and cheap enough. I doubt we'll still be nuking 5ar and using antihypertensives
in 20 years...and even if so, I'm glad I look young while I feel young.

This was a rather long answer to a simple question, but I felt it had its place.

Cheers
''I have hope for life man'' - buckthorn, 2018

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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by JLBB » 2 weeks ago

pjhair wrote:
2 weeks ago
You are right. Basing an opinion on a small sample size is a mistake.



And that's exactly why I am drawn to Konior and Keser. I probably need around 1000 to 1500 grafts to reach my goal. I would prefer a doctor who gives me his undivided attention during the procedure.



Ethics of a clinic is very important to me. I have seen some good results from Diep but I will never go to him. In North America, the only surgeons I am interested in so far are Konior and Feller/Bloxham(if i decide to get FUT).

By the way, I looked at Eugenix today. I noticed that in addition to FUE, they offer Dierect Hair Transplant, a different technique. Do you know anything about it? They claim it's better than FUE.

https://www.eugenix.in/direct-hair-transplant.html
Basically just sounds like a variant of stick and place, similar to what Keser does. It seems like they're extracting while at the same time making recipient sites, then implanting with an implanter pen with minimal time out of the body for each graft. ASMED for example use a similar implantation approach but they don't implant simultaneously to extraction. As bad as it sounds, I'd be sceptical of whether it is actually occurring in the same manner they are advertising specifically with it being an Indian clinic. If they are genuinely extracting simultaneously to implanting it is likely an effective method and a better than average variant of FUE, but its still FUE. There's obviously some degree of marketing going on there too.

The Spanish clinics including Lorenzo and Freitas do the full amount of extractions first, then use an implanter pen that simultaneously makes incisions and inserts the grafts.

Konior in terms of yield and ability to produce coverage is among the absolute top-tier, but I wouldn't consider his hairlines quite as aesthetic as someone like Freitas. Similar to Lorenzo, there are other surgeons that do higher levels of density for single procedures.

For the graft numbers you're talking about, I'd ignore FUT entirely.

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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by pjhair » 2 weeks ago

JLBB wrote:
2 weeks ago
Basically just sounds like a variant of stick and place, similar to what Keser does. It seems like they're extracting while at the same time making recipient sites, then implanting with an implanter pen with minimal time out of the body for each graft. ASMED for example use a similar implantation approach but they don't implant simultaneously to extraction. As bad as it sounds, I'd be sceptical of whether it is actually occurring in the same manner they are advertising specifically with it being an Indian clinic. If they are genuinely extracting simultaneously to implanting it is likely an effective method and a better than average variant of FUE, but its still FUE. There's obviously some degree of marketing going on there too.

The Spanish clinics including Lorenzo and Freitas do the full amount of extractions first, then use an implanter pen that simultaneously makes incisions and inserts the grafts.

Konior in terms of yield and ability to produce coverage is among the absolute top-tier, but I wouldn't consider his hairlines quite as aesthetic as someone like Freitas. Similar to Lorenzo, there are other surgeons that do higher levels of density for single procedures.

For the graft numbers you're talking about, I'd ignore FUT entirely.
Thank you for your valuable input. After reading your suggestions, I have shortlisted the following surgeons in order of preference:

Freitas
Keser
Pekiner
Lorenzo
Demirsoy

I will try to research these surgeons thoroughly and pick one with the best results and ethics.
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Re: 12 month results - Dr. Erkan Demirsoy - 3353 grafts

Post by White Ferrari » 1 week ago

DerPapillus wrote:
2 weeks ago
Haha...yea, well...I guess I had some degree of thinning on the sides, right behind the ears,
but it's just a very small degree of retrograde. It is seen better on some other pics that I'm too
lazy to crop ans edit. Admin has seen that thinning, and maybe his opinion can shed some
objectivity on the degree of retrogradeness :S

to be honest, I think those rigid classifications of
androgenetic alopecia don't tell very much of a specific hair condition, as I think it's very individual and not black/white.
In my case, I turned out to be an average/above average hair transplant candidate and the surgery was a success.

I began losing hair at 20 years..slowly progressing as years went by (NW3 at 23, NW4 at 27) well on my
way to NW5 by the time of the surgery. I was then nearing 30s. Is that stabilized? I guess we can never
know for sure, but what I know is that without any treatments, and if I live long enough..I will lose most
of my hair. But isn't transplant about buying time? I mean, I would most probably not opt for surgery if
hairloss struck me in my 50s. My current observation is like this:

From my experience and the looks of the pattern, I'll be NW5 by 50s or 60s (added finasteride 8 months
before surgery). That is atleast 20 years away. In those years I'll have hair, and I'll even have a
reserve option of adding another small hair transplant (1000 grafts) to compensate for any loss, but that will
prolly not be visible anyways, as most of the (cosmetic) hairs are transplanted. In the meantime I've
bought myself youth again, and I can just peacefully wait for Follica to give me a boost or Tsuji or whatever
whenever it becomes available and cheap enough. I doubt we'll still be nuking 5ar and using antihypertensives
in 20 years...and even if so, I'm glad I look young while I feel young.

This was a rather long answer to a simple question, but I felt it had its place.

Cheers
Yeah I just meant whether you're on any treatment basically.

Since you're on finasteride you will probably be just fine, even long term. Congrats on escaping the prison!

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