What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote:
1 year ago
Here is the thing bro, once a women behaves like the women Afro was talking to, I actually lose interest. I don't want to meet such women. Calling her out is something I am doing for me(it gives me peace of mind) and also in a hope that she might change her behavior(low chance but why not try?).

I might be a bit weird when it comes to it but I follow quid pro quo very strictly. I take a step if they take a step and the moment I see they are not putting as much effort as I am, I lose interest in them. So for example, if I text a girl and if she doesn't respond, I never text her again unless she texts me first. If i sense during chats that she is not as interested in the conversation as I am, I end the conversation. Not the best strategy if you want to get with a lot of women but that's just how I am.
Yes, but if you call out every woman, don't you get tired? I mean you should write to multiple women at the same time anyway. The more women you are writing and dating, the less you care. That's why women don't care if you call them out, they are not writing just with you. They don't. Even the sweet innocent girl (you think she is) is at least writing on and off with other men. Women have an abundance mentality by "default". The one girl that I didn't called out and asked me for a second chance, turned out to be a 3 months fuckbuddy with lots of fun and she was sweet from start to end. I just want to help here because you might ditch a woman, that could be very sweet in real life. Most women have 0 clues how to text because again, they simply don't have to learn it.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
Yes. Let me expand on that, what a lot of people don't know is that there are two types of people among the population, normal people who are capable of changing their ways, adapt their behavior and recognize when they wrong and the others, they are the people suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. The official statistics say that they make up for 1-2% of the population but it might be slightly higher than that. But they're rare enough and blend into the general population so well that people often don't know about them.

So they get confused and think think the disorder applies to the whole human race. Now this is a complicated subject and if you want to know more about it, there are many books by great mental health professionals out there that explain exactly what it is. I'll still try to explain it with my own words. Let's keep it simple: some people cannot be saved. I'll use the example of my father for that, he made (and still does to an extent) the life of my mother and I a living hell, constant verbal abuse, day in, day out. It blew up regularly at home, my mom and I blew up, we used to cry and yell at him, call him out like @pjhair suggested you do with that girl.

And it didn't stop there, we've seen more mental health professionals than I can count for family therapy sessions, and they've all said the same to him, that he was sick and that his behavior was not normal, that he was hurting us and that had to stop. And if that wasn't enough, the same happened when the police intervened at home (yes), they'd separate us and quickly, they'd laser in on my father: "Sir, you have to stop now, if we have to come back, we'll have to take you with us". The fucking police. And you think that stopped him and made him change?

So pjhair, I really think you need to look into this disorder, I can assure you that the woman @Afro_Vacancy is mentioning here has been called out dozens, hundredth of times by a lot of people. Narcissists don't think there is something wrong with them, in their heads not only are they fine just the way they are. Also, they're a much better person than you are, and who are you to call them out anyway? Don't you know they're special and you should be grateful that they were even talking to you and considering spending some time with you? This is all a defense mechanism to hide their insecurities (even from themselves). And if you want another example, try to find a post where HairLossTalk's wanabee legend Wolf Pack admits he did something wrong or was wrong about something. Good luck with that.

Calling them out is pointless, that works with normal people, but you know what? You almost never have to do that with them, while with narcissists, you'll feel that it's what you're doing all the time, to no avail. I can take any non-narcissistic person around me I've called out, and every time, it was hard but the problem was fixed. They can self-reflect and say "OK I guess I was a bit of an asshole, sorry it won't happen again!" And this is something you'll never hear from the mouth of narcissist unless they're decompensating and trying to hoover you back in their pathological lives.
Don't we all exhibit these qualities to a certain extent? Do these behaviours not exist on a spectrum?

It makes sense to label people who exhibit obvious signs of narcissism as a narcissist but I believe our ego forces us to all behave like this from time to time.

Labels often make sense of a complicated world inhabited by complicated people but I put little faith in them.
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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

blackg wrote:
1 year ago
Don't we all exhibit these qualities to a certain extent? Do these behaviours not exist on a spectrum?

It makes sense to label people who exhibit obvious signs of narcissism as a narcissist but I believe our ego forces us to all behave like this from time to time.

Labels often make sense of a complicated world inhabited by complicated people but I put little faith in them.
Yes, we've all been there, and yes those behaviors exist on a spectrum. Everyone exhibits narcissistic traits every now and then.

Narcissism becomes pathological when the person is destroying everything in their path and are unable to control their behavior.

That's 1-2% of the population. That's Wolf Pack on HairLossTalk, that's my father, and that's @pjhair's cousin apparently.

No matter how many times they get into conflicts and create drama around them, how many people they alienate and how many times they're told that there is something wrong with them, they won't be able to see it, and they'll never change.

The vast majority of people aren't like that, if they were, our Western societies would not be functional.

Again, if you want to dive into this deeper:

https://thelittleshaman.podomatic.com/

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by blackg » 1 year ago

Admin wrote:
1 year ago
Yes, we've all been there, and yes those behaviors exist on a spectrum. Everyone exhibits narcissistic traits every now and then.

Narcissism becomes pathological when the person is destroying everything in their path and are unable to control their behavior.

That's 1-2% of the population. That's Wolf Pack on HairLossTalk, that's my father, and that's @pjhair's cousin apparently.

No matter how many times they get into conflicts and create drama around them, how many people they alienate and how many times they're told that there is something wrong with them, they won't be able to see it, and they'll never change.

The vast majority of people aren't like that, if they were, our Western societies would not be functional.

Again, if you want to dive into this deeper:

https://thelittleshaman.podomatic.com/
Okay I'm just about willing to concede to your point as I can accept that only a small percentage of the population are like this.
But can you seriously label Wolf Pack as one of these personality types?

Has he really destroyed everything in his path?
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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

blackg wrote:
1 year ago
Okay I'm just about willing to concede to your point as I can accept that only a small percentage of the population are like this.
But can you seriously label Wolf Pack as one of these personality types?

Has he really destroyed everything in his path?
He's done as much damage as he could online while serving his own interests only, which were being seen as this perfect good-looking, high-status, caring guy who could never do any wrong or make a mistake while crushing anyone he perceived as being a threat to that goal.

But you saw the end result. He destroyed a whole forum (or at least its once productive impact section) and made almost everyone leave it. He banned many, many people, some temporarily as a way to make them fall in line and some permanently because he realized that we had exposed him and we would continue to do so if we stayed.

He was also constantly remodeling the whole forum to suit his goals by editing and deleting anything that would put him in a bad light. So yeah, they do destroy everything in their paths, except for their enablers of course, in this case (yes I'll say it again): DoctorHouse, Roberto and Joan who've seen his despicable behavior unfold in front of their eyes and did absolutely nothing. Without their support, he'd have been done a long time ago.

In the end, he ended up alone with his flying monkeys, and now all they do is liking each other's post on a forum that's mostly dead. I don't see how he could have done any more damage. He could have banned macaroni when he called him out but he didn't for the same reasons that he took so long to ban me, it's all calculations to reach their goal, which as I've said is appearing perfect and superior to everyone else.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 year ago

I log off for ~18 hours and all of these posts happen, cool :-)

I've noticed that a lot of responses have gone like this:

"All women are irrational, bitchy, and flakey, because life is easy for them and that's the modern world. You should just assume that woman are going to be inconsiderate, that's their universal norm".

I don't agree. For whatever it's worth, I'm up to ~40 online dates now and it is not the case that standing up is normal. It is the second time this has happened to me (so 5% stand-up rate), another time was two years ago when a woman simply failed to show up (to the Cheesecake Factory, maybe that was the problem). Usually women either make it, or cancel much earlier.

It is also wrong and misguided to assume that all women are irrational all of the time, though everybody is irrational some of the time. I know women who make mostly good decisions, though it may be hard to get after them. Further, I know from lurking on women's forums that many women think that men are the irrational ones, and they're not entirely wrong. For example, men are more likely to engage in compulsive behaviors such as binge drinking, gambling, and fighting; they also have a lower savings rate than women. Just from that, so it's not trivial and straightforward to argue "men are more rational", it will be context-dependent and also depend on which man and which woman.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote:
1 year ago
I have an anecdote related to this. Back in college, I started dating a girl. We used to meet for lunch at the college cafeteria. She was in a habit of coming 15 -20 minutes later than the agreed time which bothered me. I brought it up to her and she told me it wouldn't happen again. But the next day, she was again late for lunch. I was really upset this time and angrily told her to stop doing that. She was really apologetic and started coming on time. A couple of months later she told me that when I angrily told her to start being on time, she got turned on. I was kind of surprised to hear that. :D
A friend gave me a similar anecdote about he and his wife. He said that his wife has a very strong, stubborn, and dominant personality, but she has admitted to him that she would not be in love with him if he did not push back against her when necessary. That doesn't mean telling her that she's a bitch and beating her up and humiliating her in public, it means pushing back in a confident and effective verbal manner. In a way, it's a test of social skills. Can you argue back in a constructive manner?**

Within the animal kingdom (which humans are a part of), we know that there's a "fight or flight" mechanism, which has recently been accurately expanded to "fight, flight, or freeze". There is arguably a fourth response, of just being submissive in the hopes of pacifying the opposing party:
Image
It is likely to work out fabulously for you if you are adorable as that dog, but I am not, so it's not an option. You shouldn't always be submitting, and if you submit when you need to it risks impacting your brain such that you'll have an attitude for submission in general, even in other contexts. You should not beg, or at least, do so rarely.

**On that note, years ago a friend gave me three rules on attracting women. Rule #2 was "don't supplicate, don't condescend."

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by pjhair » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 year ago
A friend gave me a similar anecdote about he and his wife. He said that his wife has a very strong, stubborn, and dominant personality, but she has admitted to him that she would not be in love with him if he did not push back against her when necessary. That doesn't mean telling her that she's a bitch and beating her up and humiliating her in public, it means pushing back in a confident and effective verbal manner. In a way, it's a test of social skills. Can you argue back in a constructive manner?**
I completely agree with this. There may be an evolutionary reason behind this. Submission implies weakness and women don't want to carry genes of a weak man. However, it doesn't mean a man should engage in abusive behavior. It's best to be firm but fair. I am not sure it can be faked though. When I reprimanded my ex-girlfriend for being late, I wasn't following any strategy. I was just being myself.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by pjhair » 1 year ago

Arjen wrote:
1 year ago
I am also very controlled - including my choice of words - and objective & differentiated when others (just like my best friend) would sometimes just lose their temper and call people/girls names in circumstances when I do not objectively find it justifiable to condemn them.
Like you, I too try to stay objective with my friends and relatives. I have unfortunately noticed a trend though. Once you start accepting you were wrong after objectively analyzing everything, some people start assuming that you are always wrong and attempt to blame you even when they are in the wrong. Sort of like once you start doing favors on people, after some time they start viewing it as their right instead of privilege. Have you noticed a similar trend? I think it's a good strategy to keep apologies to minimum. I just don't know where to draw the line.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Arjen » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote:
1 year ago
Like you, I too try to stay objective with my friends and relatives. I have unfortunately noticed a trend though. Once you start accepting you were wrong after objectively analyzing everything, some people start assuming that you are always wrong and attempt to blame you even when they are in the wrong. Sort of like once you start doing favors on people, after some time they start viewing it as their right instead of privilege. Have you noticed a similar trend? I think it's a good strategy to keep apologies to minimum. I just don't know where to draw the line.
I can follow what you mean, but I do not perceive it to have that effect for me - fortunately? It is just generally hard to make me „explode“ and that in return can make people blow up. These days I know that (and sometimes enjoy it), but back at primary school I didn‘t have a clue when teachers would tell my parents it drove them crazy how I‘d just have a reserved smile whether they reprimanded me, appealed to me, praised me - even (especially?) teachers would like to know where they stand, that they have an effect on you. I am more and more thinking though that being so balanced, correct and in addition has prevented me from chances others would have jusr grabbed by the neck and/or been offered more than I have.
I wouldn‘t say I am a case of too much benevolence though, but I recently had a girl who had been broken up with tell me: „I really like your objectiveness about all this, but it‘s really not what I need right now, no offence.“ I am not the best at sugarcoating myself or others, and that can be perceived asa lack of empathy, although people who know me well will know I care. And here I agree with admin: when it‘s time to stsnd up for somebody, differentiations sometimes have to be left aside. I reserve that for extreme situations though, after all I‘m still Swiss...

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by pjhair » 1 year ago

Arjen wrote:
1 year ago
I am more and more thinking though that being so balanced, correct and in addition has prevented me from chances others would have jusr grabbed by the neck and/or been offered more than I have.
There may be some truth to it. According to Jordan Peterson, disagreeableness is one of the characteristic of people who rise up the ladder professionally.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by JasonStatham » 1 year ago

Putting women in place in Online Dating and real life are 2 different worlds. On the second one, the women will be turned on most likely because she can see your body language and the chemistry between you change and it's just manly in general. You cant compare writing on a small phone screen to a 1:1 interaction.

Women dont like uncomfortable situations. They prefer avoidance rather than the awkward feelings/emotions of confrontation. And on online dating, she simply can block or delete you at any minute. In real life its different.

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Re: What should you do when a girl flakes? Bad experience on Tinder

Post by Arjen » 1 year ago

JasonStatham wrote:
1 year ago
Putting women in place in Online Dating and real life are 2 different worlds. On the second one, the women will be turned on most likely because she can see your body language and the chemistry between you change and it's just manly in general. You cant compare writing on a small phone screen to a 1:1 interaction.

Women dont like uncomfortable situations. They prefer avoidance rather than the awkward feelings/emotions of confrontation. And on online dating, she simply can block or delete you at any minute. In real life its different.
My friend lived in London for a year. Everything was much more uncommittal there, stories like afro‘s would happen all the time in the anonymity of the big city until he just got numb. In return, London girls drank more alcohol and if they did meet him, sex on the first date was MUCH more likely than back home:P

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