Female tries Tinder as average male

Since hair loss and dating are closely intertwined: discuss how to improve your chances with women.
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Female tries Tinder as average male

#23979

Post by Johnson » 1 month ago

I'll take you on your word.

Honestly, for intelligence I really wouldnt be comfortable trying to place a number on myself. I'm talented in some areas and poor in others. In my favour I did graduate from a really good university, but to my detriment there were some (seemingly) relatively unintelligent people there who said some incredibly dense things.

I've met some truly gifted and incredible minds over the years and I can say that I am no way near the top. I've got some friends like the rain-man who will quote years, books, and studies at the drop of a penny.

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#23980

Post by blackg » 1 month ago

The dance video does look a bit gay and this could be effecting his responses. Despite what some might say, most hetero women like masculine traits in men.
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#23981

Post by Arjen » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
edit: i'll also add you dont have to be like this. Why even converse if you dislike me and what I say? Its just wasted emotion bickering online. I logged in and started chatting on this topic because its interesting, but theres no motive to try to make digs and try to suggest that I date beneath my own level in terms of looks. Just be chill.
I truly think you are not getting my point: this is not a competition in which I'm trying to put other men down by going "ahahaha, you are dating down, loser!". Not at all actually. I'd want every guy to date up or looksmatches, even if Idislike the guy, that's one thing you can trust me on.
I for once would rather take it as a compliment if people told me I was dating down - if I were dating, i.e. if I were to go for the women I usually have chances with.

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#23982

Post by blackg » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Perhaps I'm still blue pilled enough in the sense that I believe average guys who cant date average women have not so likable personalities that repel intimacy.
Yep, from what I've witnessed in life, there's some truth in this.
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#23983

Post by Arjen » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago

Perhaps I'm still blue pilled enough in the sense that I believe average guys who cant date average women have not so likable personalities that repel intimacy.
If you put as average anything between, 3.5 or 4 and 6.5, then yes, men can date and fuck within that range, the whole point of rudiger (I think) and me being that it's inadequate to treat such a wide range as one unit and that within such or similar untis it's almost always the man who is at the higher end of it if he wants to score.

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#23984

Post by Johnson » 1 month ago

Arjen wrote:
1 month ago
I truly think you are not getting my point: this is not a competition in which I'm trying to put other men down by going "ahahaha, you are dating down, loser!". Not at all actually. I'd want every guy to date up or looksmatches, even if Idislike the guy, that's one thing you can trust me on.
I for once would rather take it as a compliment if people told me I was dating down - if I were dating, i.e. if I were to go for the women I usually have chances with.
I'm sure we've all had some mixture, right? Sometimes they're not so hot and sometimes they are.

We have talked about it before though. Its just my opinion, so dont take it as gospel, but I felt you aiming for these stunning women (exclusively) may leaving you single for the long run. I remember your response about not being able to change who you are attracted to and there is no retort to that. It is what it is for you. You'll never find a 5 sexy so nothing can be done.

I feel I can offer you know real advice and we're at an impasse.

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Arjen wrote:
1 month ago
If you put as average anything between, 3.5 or 4 and 6.5, then yes, men can date and fuck within that range, the whole point of rudiger (I think) and me being that it's inadequate to treat such a wide range as one unit and that within such or similar untis it's almost always the man who is at the higher end of it if he wants to score.
Average to me is more or less normal looking, every day gal you see on the street. Not beautiful and not ugly.

I've slept with mediocre women, normal women, decent looking women, and attractive women. I was essentially a womaniser who used to validate my own self worth through sex. It was toxic and tragic and I only overcame it over the past few years. Now i'm more healthy with the choices I make when I feel theres someone I should date.

People who sleep around a lot are usually making up for insecurities.

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#23985

Post by Rudiger » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Why some of us have decent love lives and others dont isnt always clear.

Perhaps I'm still blue pilled enough in the sense that I believe average guys who cant date average women have not so likable personalities that repel intimacy.

I just know way too many average looking couples to support your assertions.
"Why some of us have decent love lives and other dont isnt always clear" yeah why worry about it eh? What's the point of even discussing it let's just let it go.

OK you're right that it's not always clear however it is clear, nearly all of the time, over 90% of the time.

Attractive people will have much more success in dating as it opens up the door to their special personality, the larger the gap between one persons attractiveness to another, then the less that personality is even a factor (eg male 9's can treat a female 5 like shit and barely talk to her, and remain loved).

So obviously by that theory, people around the same level (male 5.75 and female 5.5) are ideal for both parties interests (even if they naturally feel they want more and are settling, in the long run this is best for them) and that means their value as people is on an equal level. Both will be held accountable by the other and also with a good balance of trying to appease the other and continue their balanced relationship.

It means there will be no looks gap, which results in one party feeling inferior and like a door mat, and the other feeling omnipotent and worshipped, which in a different form is also terrible for self-esteem as it results in a pointless, nihilistic existence.

So you mentioned earlier you'd like to see some experiences that weren't experiments for ugly guys or Chad's (nobody does them for ugly guys by the way there's no point) and just for the average guy, well here's an idea for incels, Chad's, average guys, all inclusive:

Image

The amount of guys that women considered incredibly attractive didn't even round up to 1%. The vast majority are below average and not a considerable option for the majority of women, with 12% being average, to put this on a sort of rating scale, women think 83% of men are 3.5/10 or below, practically un-dateable. So how does this balance up to women still dating? Well there's 4 times more men online dating. Pretty simple.

And that doesn't just stay on Tinder and OK Cupid, that validation spills over to facebook, snapchat, insta, twitch, even twitter (which barely shows media) results in constant simping and desperation. Then, that delusion and dopamine overdose women get from constantly feeling cherished, has spilled over in to the real world.

I mean it's still debatable how much this affects real world dating (which I am definitely certain there is a much larger advantage for males of course, however the internet age has still affected it) so as we were talking about how you get matches and do well, we'll just stick to online dating for this discussion.

To put in comparison, the reverse stats of above:

Image

(and by the way, these aren't the only studies out there, the first memorable one was several years ago and pretty much all of them point towards the same thing)

So clearly what this means is men on average have a much wider spectrum of what they consider dateable, and because of the lobsided volume of the sexes dating online, they have no choice.

Statistically this means that the only possible outcome is that higher quality men, have to resort to dating lower quality women, otherwise on average, if men were to try and date at their own level, they would get little to no response, as women have a lot more choice at a lot higher quality,

That's what stats point to, and of course there can be freak exceptions (from what I've heard though, practically almost never or at least never resulting in an actual date) but if you're a 5 or even 6, and you are consistently and regularly getting women who are around 5-6 as well, then that is statistically a miracle.

I'll just bluntly spell out what I'm saying: like a lot of guys after being demoralised by online dating, you are overvaluing your matches and women in general at this stage. When I know of a guy who says he's done well on Tinder, and he's not above 6, my instant thought "with what quality?" of course this is never explored, even with guys who usually like to show off pictures of their latest dates.

It does correlate with how you think that generally there's a lot of "average" couples (reality: female 3's with male 5's) and even males dating "up" (female 5's with male 5's)

But what seals this theory for me- is when you said that you've pretty much never seen a woman dating up. I mean, sorry but that's crazy, even if the dating market was balanced like the 1950's or whatever, you'd inevitably at least come across some ugly women dating attractive guys, but somehow you don't seem to see this, or flat out reject the idea as impossible, because of your entrenched complex subconscious cope system.

Arjen mentioned the compression of any remotely fuckable woman of even poor quality (like a 4) being lumped in with 6-8's, there's either ugly, supermodel, or 90% of women in between. This means that for you (and a lot of people) in society right now, it's very difficult to view a woman as dating "up", as even a 5 woman dating an 8, is still seen as around the same level of looksmatch.

Anyone who could say they never see a woman dating up is clearly feeling that bias, I mean if you said you rarely see it, OK I don't know where you're living, but fine. But never? There has to be a complete shut off to realistic ratings and standards.
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#23986

Post by Johnson » 1 month ago

In terms of never seeing a woman date up - thats in reference to a clear difference where the guy looks like brad pitt and the woman looks like lena dunham.

I've met women who've dated up career and money wise, but seldom do I see a hot guy with ugly woman. Its probably happened but I dont recall seeing it within people i've known and met.

I'll put a question to you then: you've put forward this idea (via the study) that a 5 isnt seen as normal by women but rather below par. If it is to be taken as gospel and we dont challenge it then what advice could you offer those 5s?

Date 4's or aim for 5's and hope one will stick?

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#23987

Post by Rudiger » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
In terms of never seeing a woman date up - thats in reference to a clear difference where the guy looks like brad pitt and the woman looks like lena dunham.
You've just illustrated exactly what I'm saying, the gap has to be gigantic for it to be considered that the woman is dating "up".

You've probably seen plenty of actual 5 women with 6.5 men, and because of how skewed things are you don't even think of the difference, or even worse "he's done alright for himself" yes he is the one who should be grateful xD

Why? Because she's not below 4, she's still somewhat fuckable so he's done well for himself and unless he's an 8, that's what he should hope for. Absolutely fucked.

There is a lot more to that than simply online dating and social medias impact, but it's exacerbated this notion of women being beautiful prized trophies, and men being providers not constructed for aesthetics, always grateful for any vagina. Well even if there's an element of truth, it's total bullshit in terms of how society needs a balance to be agreed upon, and 80% of men (at least) competing for the unwanted 20% lowest quality of women, is not a balance.

As for solutions or what to do, first of all, at least 80% of men shouldn't touch Tinder. Of course it's impossible to announce "hey everyone stay off tinder" because even if that happened it would take precisely 10mins before the vultures snatch in for the more vulnerable women.

But more practically, if you are in the bottom 80% of males, don't go through the heartache, it's not worth it just to scrap and compete for women that still won't be happy with you even if they're dating 2 entire points up.

I actually don't know many women who have used online dating seriously (some out of curiosity or to see who's on it, that's it) and I'd it's highly unlikely you will meet a woman on there whose ego isn't completely inflated.
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#23988

Post by Johnson » 1 month ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 month ago


I actually don't know many women who have used online dating seriously (some out of curiosity or to see who's on it, that's it) and I'd it's highly unlikely you will meet a woman on there whose ego isn't completely inflated.
Because its great for them and they have a lot of choice. They dont have to go to bars and clubs like the old ways (UK and IRE norms) and go screen out guys safely at home.

As for 6 man and a 5 woman dating: that for me is still looksmatched area. Anything within a point doesnt really count and 1pt is often subjective. You've seen how much two views differ when I referred to jenny slate and you said average and to my she's easily 7.5

Added in 1 minute 51 seconds:
Rudiger wrote:
1 month ago

There is a lot more to that than simply online dating and social medias impact, but it's exacerbated this notion of women being beautiful prized trophies, and men being providers not constructed for aesthetics, always grateful for any vagina. Well even if there's an element of truth, it's total bullshit in terms of how society needs a balance to be agreed upon, and 80% of men (at least) competing for the unwanted 20% lowest quality of women, is not a balance.

Dangerous and futile line of debate as highlighting how a society ought to be wont really do any of us much good. We can only observe how it is and we can act as individuals to adapt to the way the world is.

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#23990

Post by Rudiger » 1 month ago

Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Because its great for them and they have a lot of choice. They dont have to go to bars and clubs like the old ways (UK and IRE norms) and go screen out guys safely at home.
Firstly, I didn't ask why women are doing this, it's pretty obvious why- it's incredibly easy for them and they are approached on Tinder by a field of better quality men that wouldn't approach them in a club.

What I actually said was that it's simply inflating their ego's, as online dating is resulting in ridiculous amounts of meaningless hookups for lower quality women (3-5's) with men they otherwise wouldn't expect to hope for (7-8s), and do you think such males have any intention of forming a relationship with these women?

No, they just want to fuck, but women delude themselves in to thinking they are at or around this level of being attractive, because they can get that validation quickly and with relative ease. Not only do the actual hook ups with top men make them believe this, but the hundreds and hundreds of likes and messages from average men on top of that will then explode their ego to a point that they think are clearly not just capable of a pretty nice looking guy, they should aim higher.

This of course leaves them inevitably disappointed with the reality that even as a 5 dating a 7, a woman will still be disappointed that he's not like the 8's she's fucked. Even if she's pumped and dumped countless times, where the average person should realise "maybe I'm being used and chasing a relationship that's never going to happen with any of these types?" it doesn't happen, again mainly because of that back up of getting hundreds of messages from average guys to further validate that she's attractive and should push higher.

Even the woman in this Tinder Youtube video at the start of the topic as a good example- she's tried Tinder and briefly said she got lots of men asking for her (didn't go in to detail) I don't think she's "hot" she's barely a 5, but I can imagine she can take some good selfies where she's a 7. Her male friend is a looksmatch for her (I actually think he's slightly higher than her) but she would never think of accepting him, she think's she's 7-8 because she's fucked guys on that level and has countless amounts of 6 and below males messaging her, which is the category her male friend is in.

Therefore she genuinely thinks other females, not her, that are around the 4-6 level will naturally go for her average looking friend, and so the experiment will be easy. She's not realising the vast majority of females are all chasing the 7+ males, and she's just like 90% of them, not interested in average males that only the very lowest of women would consider (typically 3-4/10 females, 5 at absolute best).

Reality and settling down will be incredibly difficult for her, for a relationship that starts without the mask of selfie lighting and filter, she might get a 7 at absolute tops, and despite seriously dating up, she'll still wonder about the Chad's that got away, and somehow still feel she's settling.

This is not "great" for women.

Secondly, you think Tinder is safer than bars and clubs? Where tons of women agree to go to guys apartments or worse for guys to come to theirs, based on pictures that don't even confirm it's the guy, and this is way more safe than going to public places with crowds of people, staff, CCTV and security guards?

I know you're just going to say "well obviously women need to be taking care" but it's simply not reality as inevitably many don't. Which is why if you google "tinder dangerous" you'll find countless stories of Tinder related rapes and murders, and I just googled it and see that recently Tinder had to establish further safety guidelines because of the dangers of online dating.

It just sounds like you're pushing this liberal open minded feminist narrative which sounds so far from reality I'd expect to see your quote above as like a parody on some redpill forum-

Isn't it great females can have lots of choice and safely meet nice males from the comfort of their home? I don't see a downside for anyone involved :thumbup:

And honestly I can't believe you've been posting on forums like here, HairLossTalk and probably others you at least read (lookism and incel related), and none of these realities have dawned on you before. Even when I was comparatively blue pilled to how I am now before these forums, I at least had somewhat of an idea.

I get the impression you just dismiss it all as black pill raging incels and don't want to engage or think about the truth of it. Even in this topic, like I pointed out at the start, this youtube video and the guys channel in general completely contradicts everything you're saying is true for average males, but you came in here and just said "seems like a nice chap, good channel", yeah what about the youtube video that show's a 5-6 male absolutely bombing when it comes to dating?

It's really transparent.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
As for 6 man and a 5 woman dating: that for me is still looksmatched area. Anything within a point doesnt really count and 1pt is often subjective.
I specifically wrote a 5 female with 6.5 male for some reason you edited that part of my post out:
Rudiger wrote:
1 month ago
You've probably seen plenty of actual 5 women with 6.5 men, and because of how skewed things are you don't even think of the difference, or even worse "he's done alright for himself" yes he is the one who should be grateful xD
I'd agree one point is just within looksmatch, which is why I used an example of 1.5 point differential, it's close to a looksmatch but still quite a difference, however you would look at a couple with that difference and probably think they are perfectly suited 6's or something. You need an epic difference like a Lena Dunham 3 and a Brat Pitt 9 before the difference would enter your mind.

Like I wrote before, apart from something like that you're always going to think the woman (even if she's low) is around the same level of the man, so that's why you regularly see average couples "matched" (being when male is higher) and men "dating up" (female and male is matched). You are over-rating the females looks, so that's why you said you never really noticed a female dating up, that's a close to impossible thing to happen if you have such naturally high ratings for women. A 5/10 female would have to date like a, 11/10 male? Of course you haven't really seen it, and I'm sure even if you have ever seen a 3 dating an 8, it sounds genuinely like you'd repress such a memory.

That wouldn't fit the cope narrative- average guys like me are all succeeding in dating average women :D I see average guys dating up all the time so I do that sometimes and pretty successful if I may say so myself :) (with occasional female 4's)
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
You've seen how much two views differ when I referred to jenny slate and you said average and to my she's easily 7.5
Hahaha c'mon man this is really sneaky- "see how different ratings can be between 2 people, when mine are unreasonably high?" it's like you saying this board is light blue, which it is, and then me saying "I think it's dark navy blue actually, now you can see how different subjective opinions can be?"

There's a difference between a personal taste and rating aesthetics which is much closer to an objective opinion (but obviously not completely). You like Jenny Slate as a personal taste, fine OK I understand, but you're saying her features typify the beauty of a 7.5, so I'm sure there's incredible inconsistencies as to how you'd rate those same features with other women that you'd admit are much lower. This feeling of everyone being free to subjectively like whatever sick aesthetics that most of society will universally hate, is what's lead to postmodern art and architecture.

Basically something about her combination of features makes her a 7.5 as a personal taste, you could easily find a similar looking girl to be a 4.

Also- in no way shape or form did I say Jenny Slate is average, I would normally forgive these little errors of misremembering, but there's quite a few now that are adding up. I said that she's not even a 4, even with a whole team trying to make her look good as possible and then I posted a picture of her and wrote "yeesh"

Why are you even trying to put words in people's mouths pushing ugly girls to be average? It's genuinely like you have an agenda.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Dangerous and futile line of debate as highlighting how a society ought to be wont really do any of us much good. We can only observe how it is and we can act as individuals to adapt to the way the world is.
You think that saying 80% of women shouldn't be competing for the top 20% of men is "dangerous"? Do you really think that's how society should be balanced? What exactly was "dangerous" there?

Again you addressed one part of my post and left out another part of my post which said exactly what you're suggesting to do- I gave a solution for individuals, I didn't just say society should do better in a futile sense. Tinder at this point is so reliant on thirsty males that they don't have to give a fuck about them, and their profit comes from keeping females there as the honey pot naturally. Tinder's interests does not lay with keeping males satisfied with the site experience, as when one gives up on the site, 5 more are joining anyway.

But where does this leave the majority of males? Miserable, just ask the majority of men who aren't willing to fuck 3's and actually try to get decent women (but still realistically 1.5 points lower than them) they get deflated, just like the woman in the youtube experiment video.

Maybe if the game wasn't rigged at this point then fine, go online date whatever, but for most males your self-esteem will be crushed, you will be made to feel that you deserve chubby acne ridden women 15 years older than you, so listen closely (again Johnson, repeating the individual solution here):

-Get off the app.

And as a bonus suggestion- try and get interests in the real world that will expand your social groups and give you actual interactions with females.

But the alternative to getting off the app? To of course fuck 3's and convince yourself you're a success, if you're really dumb it'll never catch up to you otherwise as your delusion and stupidity will overpower your reality.
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#23991

Post by JLBB » 1 month ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 month ago
You've just illustrated exactly what I'm saying, the gap has to be gigantic for it to be considered that the woman is dating "up".

You've probably seen plenty of actual 5 women with 6.5 men, and because of how skewed things are you don't even think of the difference, or even worse "he's done alright for himself" yes he is the one who should be grateful xD

Why? Because she's not below 4, she's still somewhat fuckable so he's done well for himself and unless he's an 8, that's what he should hope for. Absolutely fucked.

There is a lot more to that than simply online dating and social medias impact, but it's exacerbated this notion of women being beautiful prized trophies, and men being providers not constructed for aesthetics, always grateful for any vagina. Well even if there's an element of truth, it's total bullshit in terms of how society needs a balance to be agreed upon, and 80% of men (at least) competing for the unwanted 20% lowest quality of women, is not a balance.

As for solutions or what to do, first of all, at least 80% of men shouldn't touch Tinder. Of course it's impossible to announce "hey everyone stay off tinder" because even if that happened it would take precisely 10mins before the vultures snatch in for the more vulnerable women.

But more practically, if you are in the bottom 80% of males, don't go through the heartache, it's not worth it just to scrap and compete for women that still won't be happy with you even if they're dating 2 entire points up.

I actually don't know many women who have used online dating seriously (some out of curiosity or to see who's on it, that's it) and I'd it's highly unlikely you will meet a woman on there whose ego isn't completely inflated.
What percentage of women overall do you consider to be attractive?

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Post by Johnson » 1 month ago

I get the impression you just dismiss it all as black pill raging incels and don't want to engage or think about the truth of it. Even in this topic, like I pointed out at the start, this youtube video and the guys channel in general completely contradicts everything you're saying is true for average males, but you came in here and just said "seems like a nice chap, good channel", yeah what about the youtube video that show's a 5-6 male absolutely bombing when it comes to dating?

Not quite true. I remember the likes of Fred, baldhurts, passe, jeanluc, shook, zircon, myself, and as of the last year or so afro all having active dating lives. I've never thought we're all here as some black hearted and black pilled dooms day group. I actually wish I could see what everyone looked like to see if their opinions correlated with their level of attractiveness: if the uglier men were the most into lookism and if the more attractive were the most blue pill; or whether its somewhat at random.

Even the woman in this Tinder Youtube video at the start of the topic as a good example- she's tried Tinder and briefly said she got lots of men asking for her (didn't go in to detail) I don't think she's "hot" she's barely a 5, but I can imagine she can take some good selfies where she's a 7. Her male friend is a looksmatch for her (I actually think he's slightly higher than her) but she would never think of accepting him, she think's she's 7-8 because she's fucked guys on that level and has countless amounts of 6 and below males messaging her, which is the category her male friend is in.

I disagree. She is a 6.5 to me and she's pretty and slim. Bit too young for me but most normal men would be all over her.
Guys - chip in and rate her if you can!

Statistically this means that the only possible outcome is that higher quality men, have to resort to dating lower quality women, otherwise on average, if men were to try and date at their own level, they would get little to no response, as women have a lot more choice at a lot higher quality,

Evolutionary this should be true as well as with most species the female must choose a mate that furthers her chance of strong offspring. I actually agree with the data quoted on these groups that women do aim up and its biological. Where I differ from some of you guys is that I think they aim up in terms of height, build, job, and status. But things like face - i dont know if I agree with all that. Its anecdotal but I often feel that women are usually more attractive then their partners.

I guess look at the real life couples we all know and see if my opinion matches your experiences.

Statistically this means that the only possible outcome is that higher quality men, have to resort to dating lower quality women, otherwise on average, if men were to try and date at their own level, they would get little to no response, as women have a lot more choice at a lot higher quality,

Your final point of urging men off dating sites I would urge caution. Here I would suggest they really look at their profile, make sure they've got awesome pictures, a short but fun bio, and ask for opinions off your attractive female* friends (if you trust them). *Add male friends who you can trust if they're somewhat normal looking men with active dating lives.

The reason I say this is because I have an attractive male friend who does worse than me at online dating. He has terrible photos (which he wont change) and he's bad to woeful at back and forth texting and cannot flirt online. He's super funny in real life and actually has women approach him, but online he's shockingly bad and only gets a few matches a day.

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#24010

Post by C4L » 1 month ago

Legit but boring.

When do non-Chads learn...
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Female tries Tinder as average male

#24034

Post by Rudiger » 1 month ago

JLBB wrote:
1 month ago
What percentage of women overall do you consider to be attractive?
That's a pretty tough question and I'd need more specifics- age range? my local area? like even slightly above average? Or fuckable? And by "fuckable" there's plenty of girls I would like to think about fucking but I wouldn't actually bang, related to our conversation in the other topic about decisions and standards. Nearly every time I used to do it when young I would pretty much wish I hadn't.

I'm gonna go with those I find basically and conventionally above plain "average" looks, and that would be probably 15-20% possibly being optimistic (out of a group of 5 girls there may be 1 attractive girl, not always the case though), in a city nightclub, age range 18-30. Of course if the age range lowers the percentage goes up drastically JK JK FBI I WON'T OPEN UP

It should be noted that dropping from even slightly above average, to average, that category would be more like 40-60% of girls, with the rest being fat or facially too ugly (20-40%). I would say I'd have a basic similar rating scale for males if I were to judge them, but likely less males in the "attractive" range, I don't even think because of not being a faggot, I just think attractive females do stand out more obviously than attractive males. However nowhere near the difference to explain this fucked up lobsided dating market.

@Johnson I do appreciate you responded to a lot of my lengthy post and showed you read it and put thought in, but a major point I'd like for you to revisit is how you think it's "great" for women, and the rebuttals I made on why this is a terrible exercise for their self-esteem. Basically online app dating is an incredibly shallow process based on large numbers and whittling down who is most attractive to you, the app is literally designed that way.

But of course I'm really talking in the form of Tinder at least, I definitely haven't done much online dating at all, including very little experience on Tinder, I just have been told a lot about it at this stage and I'm aware of how it's shifted to be much worse than a decade ago.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
I get the impression you just dismiss it all as black pill raging incels and don't want to engage or think about the truth of it. Even in this topic, like I pointed out at the start, this youtube video and the guys channel in general completely contradicts everything you're saying is true for average males, but you came in here and just said "seems like a nice chap, good channel", yeah what about the youtube video that show's a 5-6 male absolutely bombing when it comes to dating?

Not quite true. I remember the likes of Fred, baldhurts, passe, jeanluc, shook, zircon, myself, and as of the last year or so afro all having active dating lives. I've never thought we're all here as some black hearted and black pilled dooms day group. I actually wish I could see what everyone looked like to see if their opinions correlated with their level of attractiveness: if the uglier men were the most into lookism and if the more attractive were the most blue pill; or whether its somewhat at random.
I have no idea why you're naming a bunch of forum members, I'm talking about your attitude to red pill generally, and I was referring to this as your first reaction to the thread:
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
He has a decent channel and he's made some interesting videos. I feel it adds validity to his work that he's actually a decent looking chap and he's not some looks deficient chap raging and lamenting over sexual-social dynamics.
What an odd conclusion to jump to- someone acknowledging the obviously fucked up dating market = expecting ugly guy raging unreasonably

You're saying his looks "adds validity to his work" so if an ugly guy or incel said it, you would just dismiss it outright as invalid, regardless of the points being made.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Even the woman in this Tinder Youtube video at the start of the topic as a good example- she's tried Tinder and briefly said she got lots of men asking for her (didn't go in to detail) I don't think she's "hot" she's barely a 5, but I can imagine she can take some good selfies where she's a 7. Her male friend is a looksmatch for her (I actually think he's slightly higher than her) but she would never think of accepting him, she think's she's 7-8 because she's fucked guys on that level and has countless amounts of 6 and below males messaging her, which is the category her male friend is in.

I disagree. She is a 6.5 to me and she's pretty and slim. Bit too young for me but most normal men would be all over her.
Guys - chip in and rate her if you can!
Ah there we go, "pretty" and has a functioning non-obese body. In fact having a non-obese body, teeth and hair probably automatically makes her a 5. Even if a 3 is remotely bangable = automatic 5, and 4's are 6's, etc.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Statistically this means that the only possible outcome is that higher quality men, have to resort to dating lower quality women, otherwise on average, if men were to try and date at their own level, they would get little to no response, as women have a lot more choice at a lot higher quality,

Evolutionary this should be true as well as with most species the female must choose a mate that furthers her chance of strong offspring. I actually agree with the data quoted on these groups that women do aim up and its biological. Where I differ from some of you guys is that I think they aim up in terms of height, build, job, and status. But things like face - i dont know if I agree with all that. Its anecdotal but I often feel that women are usually more attractive then their partners.

I guess look at the real life couples we all know and see if my opinion matches your experiences.
But even your opinions don't match your own experiences anyway, you overvalue women and will always see as woman dating up as "looksmatched".

You actually agree women try to date up, after seeing a chart that shows they only find 17% of males attractive, and 0% "very attractive", that must have been difficult to concede. Regardless the women were rating based on profiles, so they would be basing it on as much that is visible in the profile, so usually most of those other factors.
Johnson wrote:
1 month ago
Statistically this means that the only possible outcome is that higher quality men, have to resort to dating lower quality women, otherwise on average, if men were to try and date at their own level, they would get little to no response, as women have a lot more choice at a lot higher quality,

Your final point of urging men off dating sites I would urge caution. Here I would suggest they really look at their profile, make sure they've got awesome pictures, a short but fun bio, and ask for opinions off your attractive female* friends (if you trust them). *Add male friends who you can trust if they're somewhat normal looking men with active dating lives.

The reason I say this is because I have an attractive male friend who does worse than me at online dating. He has terrible photos (which he wont change) and he's bad to woeful at back and forth texting and cannot flirt online. He's super funny in real life and actually has women approach him, but online he's shockingly bad and only gets a few matches a day.
Like I wrote before, Tinder is an ego inflation machine for women, only particularly smart one's are able to realise this and get off it. If you've met someone on Tinder, she will rate herself as treasured in every way, and you'll never be good enough, especially if she's fucked around with some top tier males who have discarded her.

So for most men it's a waste of time and incredibly discouraging, however for the example of your friend who get's approached in real life anyway, then why would you ever push someone who automatically gets pussy regardless, to ignoring real life interactions (where you can actually get to properly know someone) and instead going on his app with deluded females?

If he's Chad enough to have women approach him then it doesn't surprise me he's put no effort in to his profile, but then again if he's attractive enough to get approached in real life then it wouldn't matter if his profile or even his photos are terrible (if you can see someone at all who's very attractive you can tell, regardless of the photo), so this is making zero sense as usual.
Look, fat...

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