When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

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When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

Yesterday I had my first decent match in months on Tinder and on top of that, the writing immediately led to a phone call that lasted fucking 4 hours, because the conversation was flowing. We had planned on meeting today, but since we were both keen on it, we decided to quickly meet yesterday evening before I was heading out with some friends.
I will never forget how I could see the immediate lack of enhusiasm. It took me 1 second (literally) to realize this won't lead anywhere. After 10 minutes (which were always the plan) we said goodbyes and I knew her "see you tomorrow) was a lie - which got confirmed by a text of hers in the middle of the night.
A few things here:
Right after letting me know, she must have blocked me. Wtf, if you think I'm a stalker, why talk to me on the phone for 4 hours in the first place. IT annoys me how heart- and classless women can be. I've had women interested in me without me reciprocating, but I'd never treat them like that, even if it was online stuff where the way out is easy. I more and more start feeling anger toward women showing affection, knowing/assuming they are only affectionate and empathic when they smell a good deal/find the man attractive. I find that disgusting.

I don't blame her for apparently and instantly not finding me attractive, even despite her saying things like "people get more attractive through their behaviour etc." an hour before on the phone. I could have felt the same. And that's one of the main reasons I don't like online dating. If I don't like what I see, I feel sorry and like I've wasted time (although that can be minizimed, sure) or I get a reaction like hers. And while I never developed feelings for that girl, I sure as hell feel bad and down. I'm too sensitive and insecure about my looks to just say "next please", really.

I feel further confirmed in my "threshold-theory". That girl liked my pics (especially the one with the hat, sure, but still, she had seen others), she complimented my on my voice, my smile (acoustically and physically) , my expressions, we had a nice vibe - but it's a ll worth jack shit if you don't pass the looks-threshold. And this latest incident may trigger me to not want to offer my "services" in all other regards to any woman in this world anymore, even if they are nice and I don't have a romantic interest in them. Go have drinks and conversations with that next Portuguese making a third of my salary and who will end up beating you just like your ex. I know this sounds like out of a textbook, but she did date such a guy before. And I am also aware that my sentence above would be welcome evidence that nice guys aren't that nice and stuff like that, but, well, why would anybody expect sympathy from my side.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Pat » 3 months ago

Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
Yesterday I had my first decent match in months on Tinder and on top of that, the writing immediately led to a phone call that lasted fucking 4 hours, because the conversation was flowing. We had planned on meeting today, but since we were both keen on it, we decided to quickly meet yesterday evening before I was heading out with some friends.
I will never forget how I could see the immediate lack of enhusiasm. It took me 1 second (literally) to realize this won't lead anywhere. After 10 minutes (which were always the plan) we said goodbyes and I knew her "see you tomorrow) was a lie - which got confirmed by a text of hers in the middle of the night.
A few things here:
Right after letting me know, she must have blocked me. Wtf, if you think I'm a stalker, why talk to me on the phone for 4 hours in the first place. IT annoys me how heart- and classless women can be. I've had women interested in me without me reciprocating, but I'd never treat them like that, even if it was online stuff where the way out is easy. I more and more start feeling anger toward women showing affection, knowing/assuming they are only affectionate and empathic when they smell a good deal/find the man attractive. I find that disgusting.

I don't blame her for apparently and instantly not finding me attractive, even despite her saying things like "people get more attractive through their behaviour etc." an hour before on the phone. I could have felt the same. And that's one of the main reasons I don't like online dating. If I don't like what I see, I feel sorry and like I've wasted time (although that can be minizimed, sure) or I get a reaction like hers. And while I never developed feelings for that girl, I sure as hell feel bad and down. I'm too sensitive and insecure about my looks to just say "next please", really.

I feel further confirmed in my "threshold-theory". That girl liked my pics (especially the one with the hat, sure, but still, she had seen others), she complimented my on my voice, my smile (acoustically and physically) , my expressions, we had a nice vibe - but it's a ll worth jack shit if you don't pass the looks-threshold. And this latest incident may trigger me to not want to offer my "services" in all other regards to any woman in this world anymore, even if they are nice and I don't have a romantic interest in them. Go have drinks and conversations with that next Portuguese making a third of my salary and who will end up beating you just like your ex. I know this sounds like out of a textbook, but she did date such a guy before. And I am also aware that my sentence above would be welcome evidence that nice guys aren't that nice and stuff like that, but, well, why would anybody expect sympathy from my side.
I'm sorry. It never ceases to amaze me just how heartless women are. It's like they think men don't have feelings.
Every time a woman says something that implies she's not like other girls, like "people get more attractive through their behaviour etc." Always assume she's lying. Because they're either downright lying in order to virtuesignal, or they have convinced themselves that it's true because they'd like it to be, no matter how many times they prove themselves to be wrong.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

Thank, Pat. Two things I'm trying to hold in her favour:
- She could have not even texted and directly blocked me
- She may have expected accusations and aggression after communicating her rejection

In fact, I would have been curious, if anything.

It's just, I've always shown patience and compassion with women I didn't even enjoy talking to independently of their looks. I don't think manners are cuckish, but rather treating only women you find attractive all that differently and more mannerly.

A friend is seeing a woman who is clearly interested in him and he isn't. I criticized him for asking her to join her for a concert (because he had nobody else who wanted to come) and agreeing to spend New Year's Eve with her, because that is getting up her hopes while knowing her feelings are different from his. However, all those things are making me lean towards: do whatever you want and pleases you, she should know better, and that lucky woman at least gets to have some nice episodes (which in concreto would have been all I wanted anyways) with you, who she clearly finds attractive, which is the main or only reason she is so proactive and friendly. It's not like a woman would allow you to at least take in those moments, if the feelings were reversed...

The class-discussion of my story aside: I'm really too damn sensitive for the dating world, if this little incident drags me down so much. And that is all the worse, if you are not prepared to settle for the few and unattractive women who would be into you and will spare you such experiences. Without a thicker skin, I am doomed for sure.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by rclark » 3 months ago

Don't give up. There has to be someone out there that is more acceptable.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

Ok, so @JasonStatham will be happy, as there is a follow-up already: I sent an iMessage instead of a WhatsApp message just to let her know that her blocking me there was the only thing I could blame her for and asking her if I looked so different from my pics.

She took the time to reply and somewhat apologize, stating that she had been thinking things through (her being 14 years younger, still completing her education, barely making any money etc.) and that it was sad of me to think it could only be to do with my looks.

I don‘t think it‘s worthwhile or possible to learn more, but my feeling is I‘m getting sugarcoated, as simply she had known my age when chatting and talking to me. And she was detached and distant the minute we met. Assuming those thoughts had really started to sink in by then or that she was just nervous, then I would have pretty reliable indication of a problem even bigger than my looks: my insecurity about them that borders on being paranoid about them. I am unsure, because I really don‘t think I don‘t look like in my pics and she knew my height, so she could not have been surprised about that.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Rudiger » 3 months ago

Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
Ok, so @JasonStatham will be happy, as there is a follow-up already: I sent an iMessage instead of a WhatsApp message just to let her know that her blocking me there was the only thing I could blame her for and asking her if I looked so different from my pics.

She took the time to reply and somewhat apologize, stating that she had been thinking things through (her being 14 years younger, still completing her education, barely making any money etc.) and that it was sad of me to think it could only be to do with my looks.

I don‘t think it‘s worthwhile or possible to learn more, but my feeling is I‘m getting sugarcoated, as simply she had known my age when chatting and talking to me. And she was detached and distant the minute we met. Assuming those thoughts had really started to sink in by then or that she was just nervous, then I would have pretty reliable indication of a problem even bigger than my looks: my insecurity about them that borders on being paranoid about them. I am unsure, because I really don‘t think I don‘t look like in my pics and she knew my height, so she could not have been surprised about that.
I read this thread the other day and was really baffled by it.

I mean, has this happened often? Obviously you sent pictures without the hat as well, right?

A 4 hour conversation, and I think you're self-aware enough to know you look like your pictures, so why would she react this way? I think the signs are telling you to stay away, I mean even if she is still genuinely attracted to you, and liked your conversation, she freaked out when meeting you and was awful in communicating why. That's not a good sign regardless.

However I think anyone can have a freak out, I know I've definitely reacted strangely or said the wrong off-putting thing about girls I liked who were trying to reciprocate the feelings, and for different negative reasons I just wanted out of the situation. Though overall I'm not particularly sure why. This has been rare though, obviously if you like someone normally you just do your best to go balls deep, and if it's on a plate then yeah, I'm not going to put them off. However I think it's more likely for women to behave like this, usually if they like a guy they really go for it, but they can also be incredibly indecisive.

It sounds like it doesn't matter now but just remember anyone can have an off-moment or an off-day, it's likely she's worth avoiding anyway and you dodged a bullet (girls like this tend to be so indecisive and lack mature communication skills and it's really toxic in the long run) but generally, remember that most people do deserve a second chance. In this case if anything further came of it, I'd approach with a lot of caution and look for the signs I'm talking about - such as, indecisiveness, mood swings but in a passive aggressive quiet way so that you don't know what's going on, etc.
~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Bklyn_23 » 3 months ago

What about you (in your own opinion) looks so different in real life versus your non-hatted pictures that it would lead to that sort of reaction? Height/stature? Are your photos deceiving in any other way that you can tell?

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Rudiger » 3 months ago

Bklyn_23 wrote:
3 months ago
What about you (in your own opinion) looks so different in real life versus your non-hatted pictures that it would lead to that sort of reaction? Height/stature? Are your photos deceiving in any other way that you can tell?
Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
I am unsure, because I really don‘t think I don‘t look like in my pics and she knew my height, so she could not have been surprised about that.
~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
3 months ago
I read this thread the other day and was really baffled by it.

I mean, has this happened often? Obviously you sent pictures without the hat as well, right?

A 4 hour conversation, and I think you're self-aware enough to know you look like your pictures, so why would she react this way? I think the signs are telling you to stay away, I mean even if she is still genuinely attracted to you, and liked your conversation, she freaked out when meeting you and was awful in communicating why. That's not a good sign regardless.

However I think anyone can have a freak out, I know I've definitely reacted strangely or said the wrong off-putting thing about girls I liked who were trying to reciprocate the feelings, and for different negative reasons I just wanted out of the situation. Though overall I'm not particularly sure why. This has been rare though, obviously if you like someone normally you just do your best to go balls deep, and if it's on a plate then yeah, I'm not going to put them off. However I think it's more likely for women to behave like this, usually if they like a guy they really go for it, but they can also be incredibly indecisive.

It sounds like it doesn't matter now but just remember anyone can have an off-moment or an off-day, it's likely she's worth avoiding anyway and you dodged a bullet (girls like this tend to be so indecisive and lack mature communication skills and it's really toxic in the long run) but generally, remember that most people do deserve a second chance. In this case if anything further came of it, I'd approach with a lot of caution and look for the signs I'm talking about - such as, indecisiveness, mood swings but in a passive aggressive quiet way so that you don't know what's going on, etc.
It‘s the first time it happened and it wasn‘t like we had at least a decent amount of time for me to screw things up in the live interaction. As for me, I was interested, she was „perfect“ in as I found her attractive, but not intimiatingly so, we had a nice vibe and free flowing conversations, but I didn‘t see THE woman in her, so I really saw the prospect of some fun and, I‘ll admit it, and ego-boost, as she is 24 and surely attractive enough for Chads to even possibly consider her for more serious stuff.
The things you mention as well as some stuff about her story were indeed warning signs that may have also shown in the discrepancy in behaviour between before vs. during and after the meeting. She had seen about bald head too (I am pretty sure she minded, but at least in the pics liked my face and smile enough to overlook it) and since we met outside before I was going out, I was wearing a hat, so it can‘t even have bern: now that I see a bald head in front of me, I can‘t imagine getting physical with one anymore. I also asked two friends if I looked significantly different and they said no, especially regarding the pic without the hat I sent.
My conclusion by now: it‘s partly down to her (moods, partly down to her rightly realising we wouldn‘t have matched for something serious, and down to my looks who weren‘t good enough to just have some fun for a while.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

I want to comment on the "vibe"-remark separately, and I'm also curious about your views.

I wouldn't say it was a vibe per se, but haven't you experienced constellations where it is just so easy to keep (or rather: let) the conversation going, you know which buttons to press (one for laughs, an other one for provoking serious thoughts), when you never have to wait for or steer her towards queries from herself etc.. It was that kind of "vibe", not the "divine" moment (credits to Fred) in which you yourself feel like YOU haven't had such a conversation and mental stimulation in ages. the former is achieved far more easily and often of course, as the conversation-level many people ae used to is close to tragic.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Bklyn_23 » 3 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
3 months ago

Missed that part.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

Alright, I'm just going to tell you what I think, even though it's going to sound like advice and you will try your best to rationalize it away and look for explanations somewhere else, which doesn't seem to be working out so well, and to be frank, it's often quite painful for me to read, because as I often say: been there, done that.

The answers lie where you least want to look, so:

1. Hair
2. Resentment which is linked to envy and an unearned sense of entitlement, at least for what you long for
3. Lifting (brah)
4. Age

I know what they say, and I heard Gad Saad on the Rubin Report this morning mention the reply he had given to a man who was still a virgin in his late 20's:

"You can do something to improve your social status", even though Gad Saad is an evolutionary scientist and he had said right before that facial symmetry (or looks) is crucial.

Anyway, you're already pretty much at the top when it comes to your status or your profession so we can put it aside.

As I also often say: no need to deny the obvious. And I'm not saying, dive into multiple FUE megasessions as a NW5, because if that fails, it would be on me. Rather, ask yourself if you're serious about getting where you want to go.

To put it simply, your situation is what happens when you just refuse to identify the very obvious problems in front of you. It's torture, boy do I know that: "lalalala it's not hair, I am so interesting, funny and welk-spoken! I just need to tune my behavior here and here and then it will be better!"

Does it really need an explanation? You'd look much better with hair, with 5000 fully grown grafts on that NW5. Killer smile (oh yes!), dreamy blue eyes and hair, just hair!

Then there is your resentment that I've felt too, other members that followed me on HairlossTalk know. Weirdly enough, it tends to magically evaporate after you get enough hair back and girls just treat you better (usually by letting you have sex with them). I see entitlement, resentment and narcissism in your very last sentence above: "the level of conversation many people are used to is tragic".

I know what it's like to think that you're the shit, a great conversationalist with great taste in everything, to be elitist, to think that most people are below you and couldn't possibly comprehend how great you are because they're jealous low-life peasants. Yeah no, it was not them, it was me. This is the blue-pilled part of this post, now that I'm mostly on the other side (not always though), I can sense when other people are in that place, I sense it in your posts anyway, and it just creeps me out, and tells me to get the hell aways from people exhibiting that resentment and sense of entitlement.

This post will be in two parts I guess. I'll say a bit more about entitlement and then advocate something I've been against for like a decade and of which the benefits are just obvious: lifting. And then yeah: age. Anyway, look at what's right in front of you that your whole being tells you to avoid. There is away out of this but I'm afraid it won't be easy or painless. You have to look where you least want to look.

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
3 months ago
Alright, I'm just going to tell you what I think, even though it's going to sound like advice and you will try your best to rationalize it away and look for explanations somewhere else, which doesn't seem to be working out so well, and to be frank, it's often quite painful for me to read, because as I often say: been there, done that.

The answers lie where you least want to look, so:

1. Hair
2. Resentment which is linked to envy and an unearned sense of entitlement, at least for what you long for
3. Lifting (brah)
4. Age

I know what they say, and I heard Gad Saad on the Rubin Report this morning mention the reply he had given to a man who was still a virgin in his late 20's:

"You can do something to improve your social status", even though Gad Saad is an evolutionary scientist and he had said right before that facial symmetry (or looks) is crucial.

Anyway, you're already pretty much at the top when it comes to your status or your profession so we can put it aside.

As I also often say: no need to deny the obvious. And I'm not saying, dive into multiple FUE megasessions as a NW5, because if that fails, it would be on me. Rather, ask yourself if you're serious about getting where you want to go.

To put it simply, your situation is what happens when you just refuse to identify the very obvious problems in front of you. It's torture, boy do I know that: "lalalala it's not hair, I am so interesting, funny and welk-spoken! I just need to tune my behavior here and here and then it will be better!"

Does it really need an explanation? You'd look much better with hair, with 5000 fully grown grafts on that NW5. Killer smile (oh yes!), dreamy blue eyes and hair, just hair!

Then there is your resentment that I've felt too, other members that followed me on HairlossTalk know. Weirdly enough, it tends to magically evaporate after you get enough hair back and girls just treat you better (usually by letting you have sex with them). I see entitlement, resentment and narcissism in your very last sentence above: "the level of conversation many people are used to is tragic".

I know what it's like to think that you're the shit, a great conversationalist with great taste in everything, to be elitist, to think that most people are below you and couldn't possibly comprehend how great you are because they're jealous low-life peasants. Yeah no, it was not them, it was me. This is the blue-pilled part of this post, now that I'm mostly on the other side (not always though), I can sense when other people are in that place, I sense it in your posts anyway, and it just creeps me out, and tells me to get the hell aways from people exhibiting that resentment and sense of entitlement.

This post will be in two parts I guess. I'll say a bit more about entitlement and then advocate something I've been against for like a decade and of which the benefits are just obvious: lifting. And then yeah: age. Anyway, look at what's right in front of you that your whole being tells you to avoid. There is away out of this but I'm afraid it won't be easy or painless. You have to look where you least want to look.
Thanks for this, Fred. The most interesting part for me is 2., as I can easily see the impact of the other points and I am quite sure they all played a part to some extent (even before the meet-up).

What I’m not sure we agree on or that I understand you correctly is: I am fully aware that those are the points I would need to address/improve, if I want my other parts to come into play full force, at least with good-looking women. I am all too aware that just some tweaks to my behaviour aren’t going to improve my chances at all. I’ll admit it does not only sound like but is entitlement when I claim that I feel superior to most guys when it comes to talking with women – but I’m the first to admit that it doesn’t take me anywhere, as it’s virtually worthless, if she doesn’t like your looks. I don’t see myself as super smart, let alone intellectual or anything, it’s the mix of lightheartedness, seriousness, being able to listen and more pretty common stuff I can see on a daily basis I’m happier with myself than I’d be with most other people’s skills. Maybe I underestimate my looks and overestimate my social skills, it’s possible, but I truly believe my persona (add the status to that, if you like) would be a hit with quite a lot of women, if my looks were better or – I’ll give you that- if I just had hair, which for a 24-year-old would be even more important obviously. What I’m trying to understand though: how do you think my sense of entitlement showed through for the girls and only when meeting up (and there within seconds apparently) - and how did it impact her reaction/feelings?

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by JasonStatham » 3 months ago

I have seen her picture and she is a 7 at least. In the US she might even be higher.

So a 7 that is on Tinder, has so many options and sadly, looks wise she can act like she is in an "everything free" candy shop. But I posted this sentence like 20 times on this Forum. I think people get bored now xD (but its still the truth).

You would be a very good match since you are earning a lot, you are well spoken and you seem to be a guy that can treat women with respect. But we are not in 1800 and fathers, do not pick a husband for their daughter anymore and we let women make the decisions. Like you told us, she had Ex-Boyfriends that treated her like shit and I'm sure, the 8+ guy with Six Pack and Norwood 1 next Weekend, will pump and dump her as the others did. That's just the reality. I hope for her she sake she will make better decisions in the future.

You are Portuguese Arjen. What about hanging around Portuguese communities in Zuerich? Arent Portuguese women more family/relationship friendly or is this train also long gone?

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Re: When the girl seems to change her mind on a whim

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

JasonStatham wrote:
3 months ago
You are Portuguese Arjen.
Wut, @Arjen is part of the Mediterranean master race?! From now on I'll know my place while talking to him, he could have at least had the decency to mention it in every other post. I must have unknowingly disrespected his Mediterranean heritage many times now.

Edit: OK I had doubts but the Algarve sea is a mix of different oceans so you're only partly of the master race, which doesn't make you part of the master race at all. I have Greek and Spanish origins but unfortunately my genes have been contaminated by the genetically inferior Northern people.

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