Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Since hair loss and dating are closely intertwined: discuss how to improve your chances with women.
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Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Arjen » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:14 pm

This is something I‘m naturally faced with, as I know my taste doesn’t leave me with any other choice than automatically being very ambitious (or self-destructive, to put it less euphemistically). Here I‘m not going to ask for inputs as to how one can „lower one‘s standards“, but rather:
It is recommended to date within your league. Fair enough, it makes sense. But: how does dating on/near your level make raw/genuine...initial? attraction more likely?
Even if we were to assume that realism makes you an optik, once an option, you manage to add more, there may be chemistry and ultimately physical attraction. Isn‘t it in that case wortwhile trying to create that feeling in a girl that needs to be convinced you are an option after all?

I refuse to believe that it is really so much about showing off. For me it isn‘t: whenever I find a girl appealing, I‘d hope others would find her average, not that special, boring, you name it. I don‘t want a trophy, but absolutely a girl I find pretty.
Little anecdote: I once was on a date with a waitress who looks like a inferior version of Kim Kardashian.. Men‘s heads turned, but boy did I feel uncomfortable. Not because of the looks, they were the best part, but I just feel more attracted to a woman I think suits my style and personality and, well, taste :p.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Rudiger » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:06 pm

I'm intrigued but sorry, very confused. What's the actual question?

Is it like, you basically would be lowering your standards if your tastes are currently very ambitious (presumably for where you stand on the attractiveness scale) so are you wondering how to feel genuine attraction and affection towards someone, when you're forcing it in the first place?

Well I think people do grow more attracted to people physically when they begin to like and understand them on a personal level, suddenly the less fuckable seems, very fuckable. The female body is a wonder like that, women you'd never think you'd want to bang can turn out to be hot as well once clothes are removed. It may be my basic heterosexuality coming through here, but it seems like men have to rely considerably on their face, as over 90% of us have basically similar bodies, little pudgy, average, etc. Whereas the plainest looking girl can have an amazing ass and perfect little tits, but you'd never notice it unless paying attention, and once in bed with her then suddenly she's moved up even 2-3 points on how you view her.

lol I think my initial take on this was to go down the romantic Notebook "you'll learn to love someone in all ways once you learn to love them" way and I ended up just focusing on the fact that as long as she's got a nice fuckable body then you'll genuinely find her around as attractive as some of your favorite pornstars. Actually on the topic of porn, proof of this point would be to watch some amateur or mature porn and just see how they look with clothes on, average, or less so, and then skip 10mins in and how different you see them now.

You wouldn't even look twice if you saw some of these women in a shop, but without clothes riding on you? From like 4.5/10 to infiniteappreciation/10.
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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by That Guy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:12 am

Here's the thing about a lot of attractive women: They're actually just average women who you are seeing at their upper limit.

Everyone has an upper limit, it's just that MOST people don't bother to try hitting it. Now for some unlucky people, this winds up still being fairly low. For some genetically-blessed people, the upper limit is very high. But for MOST people, who bother to workout, eat clean, take good care of their hygiene, hair, wear good clothes that suit them, and makeup in women's cases, their upper limit is satisfactory. Not everyone will be a model, but they can all be at least somewhat attractive.

The way I see it, a person who is truly attractive, like a 9 on the imaginary scale, is someone who is at their peak but still has exceptionally striking, unique features. These people are honestly quite rare, even among celebrities.

I've worked in some jobs where, by the luck of the draw, I was the only male employee and years ago, I worked in a bar that had a lot of hot waitresses (one of whom actually was a former model). I spent a lot of time around these chicks that guys drooled over and would tip them literally thousands and I'm being dead serious: Not one of them was anything special.

Guys thought I was insane when I said "She's fairly average, dude" and wondered how high my standards could possibly be. But if they had seen these girls when they swung by to pick up/drop some stuff off in the mornings when we were closed, fresh-faced, hair tied back and pajama pants, you wouldn't have given them a second look and rated her a 5 or a 6 at best. Again, they were all in good shape and shit, but they weren't special-looking people.

After a few years of this kind of "exposure", as I call it, you're outlook on beauty starts to change. You start to see that a lot of "hot" women aren't anything special and a lot of "average" women could be "hot" with just a bit of work. It's actually a thing that pisses me off about fat people. I see A LOT of fat people who'd be a lot better looking if they lost the weight. I've also shared the story many times of how, when I started to just give a shit about my appearance more, my dating life improved dramatically.

If you want to talk celebs, look no further than Chris Pratt a guy who has a pretty high "upper limit". Not one person gave a fuck about the guy or thought he was hot shit until he got ripped and met with a tailor. If he gained the weight back, he'd be seen as just another overweight stoner like he was beforehand.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Arjen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:02 am

Rudiger wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:06 pm
I'm intrigued but sorry, very confused. What's the actual question?

Is it like, you basically would be lowering your standards if your tastes are currently very ambitious (presumably for where you stand on the attractiveness scale) so are you wondering how to feel genuine attraction and affection towards someone, when you're forcing it in the first place?

Well I think people do grow more attracted to people physically when they begin to like and understand them on a personal level, suddenly the less fuckable seems, very fuckable. The female body is a wonder like that, women you'd never think you'd want to bang can turn out to be hot as well once clothes are removed. It may be my basic heterosexuality coming through here, but it seems like men have to rely considerably on their face, as over 90% of us have basically similar bodies, little pudgy, average, etc. Whereas the plainest looking girl can have an amazing ass and perfect little tits, but you'd never notice it unless paying attention, and once in bed with her then suddenly she's moved up even 2-3 points on how you view her.

lol I think my initial take on this was to go down the romantic Notebook "you'll learn to love someone in all ways once you learn to love them" way and I ended up just focusing on the fact that as long as she's got a nice fuckable body then you'll genuinely find her around as attractive as some of your favorite pornstars. Actually on the topic of porn, proof of this point would be to watch some amateur or mature porn and just see how they look with clothes on, average, or less so, and then skip 10mins in and how different you see them now.

You wouldn't even look twice if you saw some of these women in a shop, but without clothes riding on you? From like 4.5/10 to infiniteappreciation/10.
You are right, my post isn‘t very well-structured. Too many thoughts going into it at the same time.

My main question probably is: if people say lower your expectations, it‘ll get you more success, I‘d agree, because it will. However, is the success down to genuine attraction by the girl for you? Or rather: is genuine attraction influenced/favoured by the similiarity of leagues, because that won‘t make the other feel she „could/should do better“?

My big problem is that my leagues, romantically speakimg, for girls don‘t change once I get to know girls. Alright, some hot girls may lose points due to their behaviour/apparent incomatibility, but good conversations, smart thinking, even chemistry make a girl a better/more interesting overall person for me, but not more physically attractive. And I‘ve tried, in cases of chemistry even with relationships, it was frustrating, because I feel that spark was missing...

...and that spark to me is a pretty face. What you write, Rudiger (love the name), is what I hear from and see in male friends. A cool personality and a good body will just do for most guys and I wish it did for me, too. Don‘t get me wrong, I find hot bodies (think slim, but curvy) sexy, but sexiness is the physucal asoect I‘d sacrifice in a relationship. Sounds absurd, but if I were to hold out for both a pretty face AND sexiness, I‘d barely find an option in the first place.

I sometimes think that it‘s a defence-mechanism, that had I actually got together with girls I found so pretty from the get-go and that didn‘t lose my vivid interest after getting to know them as persons, I would, too, have found „flaws“ after months or have started to find them boring.

But still, I promised myself I wouldn‘t start anything serious again, unless I feel „in love“, still being very open theoretivslly for that to happen with a girl whose face does not have me think „you are pretty!“ from the beginning.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Arjen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:17 am

That Guy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:12 am
Here's the thing about a lot of attractive women: They're actually just average women who you are seeing at their upper limit.

Everyone has an upper limit, it's just that MOST people don't bother to try hitting it. Now for some unlucky people, this winds up still being fairly low. For some genetically-blessed people, the upper limit is very high. But for MOST people, who bother to workout, eat clean, take good care of their hygiene, hair, wear good clothes that suit them, and makeup in women's cases, their upper limit is satisfactory. Not everyone will be a model, but they can all be at least somewhat attractive.

The way I see it, a person who is truly attractive, like a 9 on the imaginary scale, is someone who is at their peak but still has exceptionally striking, unique features. These people are honestly quite rare, even among celebrities.

I've worked in some jobs where, by the luck of the draw, I was the only male employee and years ago, I worked in a bar that had a lot of hot waitresses (one of whom actually was a former model). I spent a lot of time around these chicks that guys drooled over and would tip them literally thousands and I'm being dead serious: Not one of them was anything special.

Guys thought I was insane when I said "She's fairly average, dude" and wondered how high my standards could possibly be. But if they had seen these girls when they swung by to pick up/drop some stuff off in the mornings when we were closed, fresh-faced, hair tied back and pajama pants, you wouldn't have given them a second look and rated her a 5 or a 6 at best. Again, they were all in good shape and shit, but they weren't special-looking people.

After a few years of this kind of "exposure", as I call it, you're outlook on beauty starts to change. You start to see that a lot of "hot" women aren't anything special and a lot of "average" women could be "hot" with just a bit of work. It's actually a thing that pisses me off about fat people. I see A LOT of fat people who'd be a lot better looking if they lost the weight. I've also shared the story many times of how, when I started to just give a shit about my appearance more, my dating life improved dramatically.

If you want to talk celebs, look no further than Chris Pratt a guy who has a pretty high "upper limit". Not one person gave a fuck about the guy or thought he was hot shit until he got ripped and met with a tailor. If he gained the weight back, he'd be seen as just another overweight stoner like he was beforehand.
I agree with you. And I notice on a regular basis that the changed you mention have a significant impact on the perception of others, if performed.

I myself think that I can roughly guess a person‘s potential, but of course, the actual outcome would always be interesting. I‘ve seen a guy lose dozens of kgs and he would end up looking worse: far more visible wrinkles, jaded look, an unfavourably exposed nose. The exception that you mention yourself, I guess, when even investing in them your looks won‘t make it into the at least average-area.

Facial features are as genetically driven as it gets, I‘d say, and they are - along with a nice pair of eyes - what gets me. If a 1.78-woman (same height as me) with an average, maybe average+ face and a body many men clsim
to find very sexy were to hit on me, it‘d be flattered, but not interested. It doesn‘t happen often, but it has happened. Now I my question I am asking myself from that and if I am to believe other guys‘ ratings: is my problem a league thing or one of lack of luck (i.e. it will be a girl‘s turn to like me that I find pretty)? If I wasn‘t 36 already, I would be less reluctant to blame it in the latter...:)

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by pjhair » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:12 pm

Arjen wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:02 am
You are right, my post isn‘t very well-structured. Too many thoughts going into it at the same time.

My main question probably is: if people say lower your expectations, it‘ll get you more success, I‘d agree, because it will. However, is the success down to genuine attraction by the girl for you? Or rather: is genuine attraction influenced/favoured by the similiarity of leagues, because that won‘t make the other feel she „could/should do better“?

My big problem is that my leagues, romantically speakimg, for girls don‘t change once I get to know girls. Alright, some hot girls may lose points due to their behaviour/apparent incomatibility, but good conversations, smart thinking, even chemistry make a girl a better/more interesting overall person for me, but not more physically attractive. And I‘ve tried, in cases of chemistry even with relationships, it was frustrating, because I feel that spark was missing...

...and that spark to me is a pretty face. What you write, Rudiger (love the name), is what I hear from and see in male friends. A cool personality and a good body will just do for most guys and I wish it did for me, too. Don‘t get me wrong, I find hot bodies (think slim, but curvy) sexy, but sexiness is the physucal asoect I‘d sacrifice in a relationship. Sounds absurd, but if I were to hold out for both a pretty face AND sexiness, I‘d barely find an option in the first place.

I sometimes think that it‘s a defence-mechanism, that had I actually got together with girls I found so pretty from the get-go and that didn‘t lose my vivid interest after getting to know them as persons, I would, too, have found „flaws“ after months or have started to find them boring.

But still, I promised myself I wouldn‘t start anything serious again, unless I feel „in love“, still being very open theoretivslly for that to happen with a girl whose face does not have me think „you are pretty!“ from the beginning.
I agree with you. There is no point starting a relationship with a women who you don't find attractive. I have done that in the past and it didn't end well. It's one thing to have one night stand with some one you don't find all that attractive, but relationship's are a different ball game all together.

Another thing that I have observed is that minimal threshold of what you find attractive depends on your own level as well. For example if you are a guy who is 8/10 on looks scale. You will be attracted to a women who is 8/10 or above. If you are a 5/10 guy,, you will be drawn to a women 5/10 or above.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Admin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:28 pm

pjhair wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:12 pm
I agree with you. There is no point starting a relationship with a women who you don't find attractive. I have done that in the past and it didn't end well. It's one thing to have one night stand with some one you don't find all that attractive, but relationship's are a different ball game all together.

Another thing that I have observed is that minimal threshold of what you find attractive depends on your own level as well. For example if you are a guy who is 8/10 on looks scale. You will be attracted to a women who is 8/10 or above. If you are a 5/10 guy,, you will be drawn to a women 5/10 or above.
I used to get into relationships with girls I barely found attractive just to gain experience. Sure you'll learn valuable lessons but there is a trade-off: the emotional investment, especially on the girl's part, and unless you're a very disagreeable person, make no mistake, you'll end up developing feelings too.

Then you inevitably get to the point where you have to break it off and that can be very hard. I know it was for me. I just wasn't attracted (never really was) to the girl and on top of that, common relationships problems had arisen, and when you don't have that solid attraction to motivate you to keep the relationship strong, everything just falls apart really quickly.

You just don't care, but even then, since the girl was below your level of looks, she will most likely care, way more than you. And that's when you can really get into trouble. One time the girl just wouldn't accept that it was over and she went into 'stalking mode', she would camp in front of my building for hours, call me in tears and even put herself in danger to attract my attention.

So yeah pjhair, on one hand I agree with you, but on the other hand, relationship (and sexual I might add) experience can be very valuable. I see so many guys who say "nah she's not my type, I want better" about every girl that would give them a chance and just remain single forever. If you stay inexperienced for too long, it might cause you to have confidence issues when you finally meet a girl you're truly into.

There are skills that you just won't develop through one night stands alone. Relationships need practice and a lot of trial and error, and people shouldn't expect to get it right with the first person they choose to have a committed relationship with. I guess it's a case by case situation and it depends on what you want to achieve.

I certainly don't regret those relationships with girls I was not really attracted to. Without them, my current relationship wouldn't be going so smoothly, that's for sure.
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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:28 pm
I used to get into relationships with girls I barely found attractive just to gain experience. Sure you'll learn valuable lessons but there is a trade-off: the emotional investment, especially on the girl's part, and unless you're a very disagreeable person, make no mistake, you'll end up developing feelings too.

Then you inevitably get to the point where you have to break it off and that can be very hard. I know it was for me. I just wasn't attracted (never really was) to the girl and on top of that, common relationships problems had arisen, and when you don't have that solid attraction to motivate you to keep the relationship strong, everything just falls apart really quickly.

You just don't care, but even then, since the girl was below your level of looks, she will most likely care, way more than you. And that's when you can really get into trouble. One time the girl just wouldn't accept that it was over and she went into 'stalking mode', she would camp in front of my building for hours, call me in tears and even put herself in danger to attract my attention.

So yeah pjhair, on one hand I agree with you, but on the other hand, relationship (and sexual I might add) experience can be very valuable. I see so many guys who say "nah she's not my type, I want better" about every girl that would give them a chance and just remain single forever. If you stay inexperienced for too long, it might cause you to have confidence issues when you finally meet a girl you're truly into.

There are skills that you just won't develop through one night stands alone. Relationships need practice and a lot of trial and error, and people shouldn't expect to get it right with the first person they choose to have a committed relationship with. I guess it's a case by case situation and it depends on what you want to achieve.

I certainly don't regret those relationships with girls I was not really attracted to. Without them, my current relationship wouldn't be going so smoothly, that's for sure.
Yes, I went through such a relationship recently. It lasted roughy ~1 month, at which point I broke up with her (politely, and in person) and felt terrible about it.

But, I would still go through it again. I am ... desperately lacking I experience, and that matters a lot both for my ability to attract women, and my ability to keep them, and my ability to enjoy my time with them. Though I wasn't attracted to her, the intimacy was better than neutral, and we had fun on our dates.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Arjen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:47 pm

I made the same experience, Fred. In the end it felt bad, not only because I did develop feelings (of LIKING her like crazy...as a person), but also becauseI realised I was basically using her, as being desired by somebody felt good, not being afraid yourself of doing anything was convenient etc..
Now, the sympathy had limits, I know well enough I was still nicer to her throughout than a girl I'd have a crush on and that likes me (but not romantically) would treat me, I also know that "just" because I was something special to her means I owe her the world - but in the end it was just not what I wanted and needed after all.
Now I what pjhair wrote was true for me: my threshold starting at my very own level. It's not the case, unfortunately. I am not into models, but the girls I find attractive and could imagine something substantial with are usually 2-3 levels above me looks-wise. Sometimes maybe "just" 1, if you take into consideration that I tend to have a typical type that - when met - may cloud my judgment a little.
My best friend is better looking than me, mainly due to having hair, so well above average. That's the first big difference between us. The second, even bigger one: he finds girls attractive that are on his, often even below his level. Of course he sees they're no 7s or 8s (which he'd ideally prefer), but he finds them attractive enough. He's only been single for years now because they wouldn't fit the profile otherwise or (in one case) they weren't interested.

I'll hyperlink a girl I'd (just physically speaking) typically fancy here , as I'm curious what you all would rate her ...
Last edited by Arjen on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by pjhair » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:28 pm
I used to get into relationships with girls I barely found attractive just to gain experience. Sure you'll learn valuable lessons but there is a trade-off: the emotional investment, especially on the girl's part, and unless you're a very disagreeable person, make no mistake, you'll end up developing feelings too.

Then you inevitably get to the point where you have to break it off and that can be very hard. I know it was for me. I just wasn't attracted (never really was) to the girl and on top of that, common relationships problems had arisen, and when you don't have that solid attraction to motivate you to keep the relationship strong, everything just falls apart really quickly.

You just don't care, but even then, since the girl was below your level of looks, she will most likely care, way more than you. And that's when you can really get into trouble. One time the girl just wouldn't accept that it was over and she went into 'stalking mode', she would camp in front of my building for hours, call me in tears and even put herself in danger to attract my attention.

So yeah pjhair, on one hand I agree with you, but on the other hand, relationship (and sexual I might add) experience can be very valuable. I see so many guys who say "nah she's not my type, I want better" about every girl that would give them a chance and just remain single forever. If you stay inexperienced for too long, it might cause you to have confidence issues when you finally meet a girl you're truly into.

There are skills that you just won't develop through one night stands alone. Relationships need practice and a lot of trial and error, and people shouldn't expect to get it right with the first person they choose to have a committed relationship with. I guess it's a case by case situation and it depends on what you want to achieve.

I certainly don't regret those relationships with girls I was not really attracted to. Without them, my current relationship wouldn't be going so smoothly, that's for sure.
I agree, experience is very valuable when it comes to dating. I am sure we all can think of missed out chances from our early dating lives primarily because of lack of experience. Women were dropping all kinds of hints of being available but we couldn't capitalize on them because we were very inexperienced.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:25 pm

pjhair wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm
I agree, experience is very valuable when it comes to dating. I am sure we all can think of missed out chances from our early dating lives primarily because of lack of experience. Women were dropping all kinds of hints of being available but we couldn't capitalize on them because we were very inexperienced.
Meanwhile, it's not as though lack of experience is neutral. It's probably actively destructive.

There's a cost to loneliness, it's very likely bad for the soul, and it's associated with a lot of medical risk factors in men. Single men will live shorter lives, though it's unclear if that's because women find unhealthy man unattractive, or because lack of women makes men unhealthy, or both. I'll assume both. You also won't get invited to as many parties and social gatherings if you're single, a lot of events are for couples only, and regardless of that women are much more effective at establishing social networks.

But we do need social bonds ... human beings are not just social animals, we're the most social animals. We're all aware of the more toxic incel sites and ideologies out there. Incels may know the least about women, but they are often the most confident in their relative knowledge. This leads to a negative feedback loop, where they talk among each other, support an ideology that is at best a subset of reality, and lose further and further touch with reality. Their incelism in turn becomes harder to break free of.

Theory in general is very unlikely to work without experience, in both real life and in real science. The best path to knowledge is an intelligent and rational synthesis of both theory and observation/experience. However, if you can't have both, experience without theory will usually go further than theory without experience. That is due to human beings' incredible capacity for bullshit.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by pjhair » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:03 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:25 pm
But we do need social bonds ... human beings are not just social animals, we're the most social animals. We're all aware of the more toxic incel sites and ideologies out there. Incels may know the least about women, but they are often the most confident in their relative knowledge. This leads to a negative feedback loop, where they talk among each other, support an ideology that is at best a subset of reality, and lose further and further touch with reality. Their incelism in turn becomes harder to break free of.
Couldn't agree more with this. I am often shocked by the absolute and extreme claims made by incels which I know to be wrong. In fact, anyone who has spend time outside their basement and actually interacted with people will instantly recognize the obvious lack of experience in incels. Life is far more complex and variegated than what incels think.
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:25 pm
Theory in general is very unlikely to work without experience, in both real life and in real science. The best path to knowledge is an intelligent and rational synthesis of both theory and observation/experience. However, if you can't have both, experience without theory will usually go further than theory without experience. That is due to human beings' incredible capacity for bullshit.
Very well said.

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by blackg » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:25 pm
Meanwhile, it's not as though lack of experience is neutral. It's probably actively destructive.

There's a cost to loneliness, it's very likely bad for the soul, and it's associated with a lot of medical risk factors in men. Single men will live shorter lives, though it's unclear if that's because women find unhealthy man unattractive, or because lack of women makes men unhealthy, or both. I'll assume both. You also won't get invited to as many parties and social gatherings if you're single, a lot of events are for couples only, and regardless of that women are much more effective at establishing social networks.

But we do need social bonds ... human beings are not just social animals, we're the most social animals. We're all aware of the more toxic incel sites and ideologies out there. Incels may know the least about women, but they are often the most confident in their relative knowledge. This leads to a negative feedback loop, where they talk among each other, support an ideology that is at best a subset of reality, and lose further and further touch with reality. Their incelism in turn becomes harder to break free of.

Theory in general is very unlikely to work without experience, in both real life and in real science. The best path to knowledge is an intelligent and rational synthesis of both theory and observation/experience. However, if you can't have both, experience without theory will usually go further than theory without experience. That is due to human beings' incredible capacity for bullshit.
Well said. The amount of negative incel theory on that other site drives me mad.
Stop the caravans!

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by That Guy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:52 pm

It's no coincidence that 99% of the "I don't find anything less than model perfection to be attractive" guys are guys who are introverted as fuck, especially back in their teen years and early 20s.

When that happens, you spend more time jacking it to porn, airbrushed playboy, or even comic book characters (just look at the weebs with anime body pillows out there) and it warps your expectations.

Most normal people have a more wide-ranging taste that comes about because of interactions with real people. That's not to say some traits (baldness) aren't dealbreakers for most, or that you can just throw sexual attraction and appearance to the wind, but it's not as rigid as the "incels" would suggest.

I agree with Afro: Loneliness isn't worth it. Me, personally, my intent when I get my life straightened out with this hairloss shit somehow is to focus on finding one really great woman (for me, anyway) to make a life with. I missed out on the "highschool fucking around" in my teen years (my fault) and made up for it in my early 20s and it was short lived. I let a number of good women just go because I was always of the mind "there'll just be another". Well, I see the best of those girls got married to a guy far less attractive than me (and NW4 for fuck's sake) just yesterday. That's a bitter pill to swallow.

The "player" lifestyle is not sustainable, and one day when you're an old man with no friends or family to come visit you, you'll say: "I really wish I had someone who was always there for me."

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Re: Dating within your league and genuine/raw attraction

Post by Arjen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:18 pm

That Guy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:52 pm
It's no coincidence that 99% of the "I don't find anything less than model perfection to be attractive" guys are guys who are introverted as fuck, especially back in their teen years and early 20s.

When that happens, you spend more time jacking it to porn, airbrushed playboy, or even comic book characters (just look at the weebs with anime body pillows out there) and it warps your expectations.

Most normal people have a more wide-ranging taste that comes about because of interactions with real people. That's not to say some traits (baldness) aren't dealbreakers for most, or that you can just throw sexual attraction and appearance to the wind, but it's not as rigid as the "incels" would suggest.

I agree with Afro: Loneliness isn't worth it. Me, personally, my intent when I get my life straightened out with this hairloss shit somehow is to focus on finding one really great woman (for me, anyway) to make a life with. I missed out on the "highschool fucking around" in my teen years (my fault) and made up for it in my early 20s and it was short lived. I let a number of good women just go because I was always of the mind "there'll just be another". Well, I see the best of those girls got married to a guy far less attractive than me (and NW4 for fuck's sake) just yesterday. That's a bitter pill to swallow.

The "player" lifestyle is not sustainable, and one day when you're an old man with no friends or family to come visit you, you'll say: "I really wish I had someone who was always there for me."
I agree. I even notice that there are some men who rare women harshly for the sake of it, pretending to have high standards.

Some people try to set me up occasionally, no, not with fatties, with girls more or less my looksmatch. It‘s awakward for me, they mean well and only to my best friends can I tell openly „sorry, no, won‘t work based on looks“ without me havimg the feeling he thinks I am presumptuous - I DO know my league!

I interact a lot with girls, often younger ones, no matter if I find them physically appealing or not. The latter sometimes fall for me, the former don‘t (ok, often enough they are taken), and as I said, I‘ve tried going for personality/chemistry. Maybe the chemistry wasn‘t real chemistry, but then I‘ve never had any in my life (doubtful), so I‘d rely on looks even more obviously...

I am really at a loss when trying to think of ways how to adapt my standards, with my only viable option being to look gor girls I subjectively rate higher than the mainstream would. It‘s why I‘m curious about the forum’s opinion of the girl I linked.
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