Yet another Tinder experiment

Since hair loss and dating are closely intertwined: discuss how to improve your chances with women.
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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Hairblues » 3 months ago

Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
Set my age to 27 (10 years younger than I actually am), only 1 pic, with hat. :problem:
The likes are now of a quality where I‘d without the cheating think: ok, not my dream girls, but, well, fair, finally some who are ~6, why not meet a few of them if they seem somewhat reasonable otherwise. While this to me feels like the (still quite low) level I feel I „deserve“, it surely doesn‘t mean I cn reach it. Not at 37, not with a bald head.
Social circle/work gets my access to attractive women, but it‘s really ridiculous by now to witness how your looks are your (only) cap. While the 6.5 who bought me a beer makes sure I may of course return the favor, but at the next group gathering (which was my envisioned setting anyway...), the 3-4 openly suggests that we don‘t need to wait for such an occasion. This is the latest of so many similar examples that I am resigning. The women I like are not interested, the dating market has decided so, and it really doesn‘t matter whether I find this fair.
The options remaining are:
- Importing a cute woman, from Mexico or so. Providing wouldn‘t necessarily be my main concern, but I like interesting conversations (a reason why good-looking women from work like me, I suppose) and I like things neat and tidy. I‘m weary of mentality conflicts and language barriers.
- Settling for a smart and affluent Swiss woman and dating down in looks. Having the smart & affluent part fulfilled would still leave me in a better place than most average men here. Apart from nationality, I had this set-up before and it made me unhappy.
- Coming to terms with the prospect of leading the life of now but without hoping for and seeking women.
I‘m leaning towards option 3, with not nearly as much bitterness as one might expect.


I either blanked out that you were 37 or didn’t know.
I assumed you were in late 20s from the content of your posts and your expectations of wanting someone ‘cute’. I tend to think of cute women as a 20something look for most.(not all) women.


This gives me on opinion as to why you have this issue with the dating.

I’m curious as a 37 year old, what age have you been considering on your dating app? Can it be the cute girls you’ve been attracted too are considering themselves too young?

Some women don’t care about age difference, but some do. Why/why not I don’t know.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by koolaidshade » 3 months ago

@Arjen reading your posts fill me with woe, since i can very much relate in most ways, but i hope for the best for you. Please do keep us updated on whatever game you plan on running, and if you get any success from them.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by JLBB » 3 months ago

Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
Set my age to 27 (10 years younger than I actually am), only 1 pic, with hat. :problem:
The likes are now of a quality where I‘d without the cheating think: ok, not my dream girls, but, well, fair, finally some who are ~6, why not meet a few of them if they seem somewhat reasonable otherwise. While this to me feels like the (still quite low) level I feel I „deserve“, it surely doesn‘t mean I cn reach it. Not at 37, not with a bald head.
Social circle/work gets my access to attractive women, but it‘s really ridiculous by now to witness how your looks are your (only) cap. While the 6.5 who bought me a beer makes sure I may of course return the favor, but at the next group gathering (which was my envisioned setting anyway...), the 3-4 openly suggests that we don‘t need to wait for such an occasion. This is the latest of so many similar examples that I am resigning. The women I like are not interested, the dating market has decided so, and it really doesn‘t matter whether I find this fair.
The options remaining are:
- Importing a cute woman, from Mexico or so. Providing wouldn‘t necessarily be my main concern, but I like interesting conversations (a reason why good-looking women from work like me, I suppose) and I like things neat and tidy. I‘m weary of mentality conflicts and language barriers.
- Settling for a smart and affluent Swiss woman and dating down in looks. Having the smart & affluent part fulfilled would still leave me in a better place than most average men here. Apart from nationality, I had this set-up before and it made me unhappy.
- Coming to terms with the prospect of leading the life of now but without hoping for and seeking women.
I‘m leaning towards option 3, with not nearly as much bitterness as one might expect.
With a hat on you look early 30s. I think you almost certainly overthink things and should focus on that woman smart and affluent type of woman who you have similar values and interests too, however if you went to Hattingen and did a large scale FUT you would look young enough to date who you want. That and hit the gym even twice a week.

I don't see any reason why you should have to settle for option three when you haven't focused on the key areas of looksmaxing. Doesn't sound like you have any financial issues with the transplant option either.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Arjen » 3 months ago

It’s true that I could afford one (or two) mega sessions with Hattingen. The problem is rather the fear of an insufficient result (even if it all goes well, that is) or the bothersome recovery period. But much more than that: seeing that my friend with same age and similar looks, but with hair seems to have more options, but they are all below my (and his) desired level. Once you try with that league (and especially in his case, I don’t think they are all above his league, and the ones who are, are maybe 0.5-1 point above him), you seem to hit a wall that – no matter what you do or how you are as a person – can’t overcome.

And it isn’t just him, I just never see couples with the man dating up in terms of looks. It may seem pathetic to tie your own prospects to that of others, but since it matches with my own personal experiences, it’s hard to keep the faith that you are going to be the exception.
So, in short: a close friend with hair and his dating prospects & the general dating environment discourage me immensely.

The essential element at this point is probably the following: despite a lack of success, I’ve for a long time overestimated my SMV. Realizing this is quite unpleasant and makes you wonder where your approximate level is after all. I was recently out with a colleague from his law firm and since the bar was close to his workplace, a lot of people from there passed by or joined. Among them some actual 8s, and even a 9. It made me chuckle inside, because it confirmed to me that the women I’ve met through work and in some cases laid an eye on really are 6-7s, i.e. perfectly fine, but quite far from the top too. When I discuss looks with a female friend, I just get the impression that this middle-ground is nearly as nuanced as it is for men. There really only is good-looking (maybe 5%), average or “wtf, seriously/invisible” for many women. But only in theory. In practice, the upper/almost good-looking class does have an advantage over the rest of the group, so it’s quite safe to say that I’m not part of it – nor is my friend with hair.

While I still think of myself as levelheaded and balanced, what I need to be careful of is not to develop too negative and simplified a view of women. Not for them, not because I think a lightheartedness increases one’s chances with attractive women, but because negativity and frustration lead to a less pleasant life in general.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

Arjen wrote:
3 months ago
It’s true that I could afford one (or two) mega sessions with Hattingen. The problem is rather the fear of an insufficient result (even if it all goes well, that is) or the bothersome recovery period. But much more than that: seeing that my friend with same age and similar looks, but with hair seems to have more options, but they are all below my (and his) desired level. Once you try with that league (and especially in his case, I don’t think they are all above his league, and the ones who are, are maybe 0.5-1 point above him), you seem to hit a wall that – no matter what you do or how you are as a person – can’t overcome.

And it isn’t just him, I just never see couples with the man dating up in terms of looks. It may seem pathetic to tie your own prospects to that of others, but since it matches with my own personal experiences, it’s hard to keep the faith that you are going to be the exception.
So, in short: a close friend with hair and his dating prospects & the general dating environment discourage me immensely.

The essential element at this point is probably the following: despite a lack of success, I’ve for a long time overestimated my SMV. Realizing this is quite unpleasant and makes you wonder where your approximate level is after all. I was recently out with a colleague from his law firm and since the bar was close to his workplace, a lot of people from there passed by or joined. Among them some actual 8s, and even a 9. It made me chuckle inside, because it confirmed to me that the women I’ve met through work and in some cases laid an eye on really are 6-7s, i.e. perfectly fine, but quite far from the top too. When I discuss looks with a female friend, I just get the impression that this middle-ground is nearly as nuanced as it is for men. There really only is good-looking (maybe 5%), average or “wtf, seriously/invisible” for many women. But only in theory. In practice, the upper/almost good-looking class does have an advantage over the rest of the group, so it’s quite safe to say that I’m not part of it – nor is my friend with hair.

While I still think of myself as levelheaded and balanced, what I need to be careful of is not to develop too negative and simplified a view of women. Not for them, not because I think a lightheartedness increases one’s chances with attractive women, but because negativity and frustration lead to a less pleasant life in general.
The common thread I see here is a "what's the point?" attitude, mostly because you have this certainty that you know the future or that your current model of reality is like 99% accurate.

Now don't get me wrong, it's useful to have one, as a matter of fact you need one to be able to operate in the world, but at the same time, on one hand, you shouldn't be a slave to it, and on the other hand, remember that the model you have in your head is ultimately not reality, it remains something you've constructed in your mind.

Your value, the value you attribute to women, how you think they think, how you think, none of that is actual reality, it's mostly your ego speaking and dictating what I see as a largely toxic view on the word, women and most importantly yourself.

There's really no need to beat yourself up or to check out of the dating game. And I'm going to reiterate what I've been trying to tell you from the beginning: can't you just shut down that voice in your head, that (overly) analytical mind and go out there as if it was an adventure? This is something I was glad to have retained during my time on the dating scene (despite the inevitable frustrations), seeing every date or social gathering as an opportunity to get to know amazing human beings.

And go from there, quieting that voice telling me, well mostly what you're still telling yourself. Be grateful for the smallest things and things will tend to get better in general, that's my experience anyway. Same with the hair transplants part or @JLBB's advice to go to the gym. You just do it and appreciate the whole process as an adventure, instead calculating trade-offs based on the model of reality you've built in your head.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 month ago

I ended up deleting my Tinder profile.

Of the ~15 or so first dates that I've had this year, only two were from Tinder. I do less well on that app than I do on e.g. Bumble, for which there may be any number of reasons. I think that a lot of the profiles are fake, and that the user base is a lot more focused on hook-ups.

I am now approximately average-looking, but I'm not good-looking. What I offer is smart, sweet, stylish and professional gentleman chic with a sense of humor, and average looks. That is appreciated on Bumble, but not on Tinder. There are women there who explicitly state that they want a sugar daddy, for which I'd need a minimum salary of say $250,000/year (I think?), and honestly that's not what I would do with that income. A large fraction of the women there post bikini/lingerie shots, with the camera directly focused on their butt or breasts.

It's the mirror image of men showing off their six-pack in their profile shots. Many women say that they hate that, and I believe them. But at the same time, lots of other women love it I'm sure, and that's all a person needs. If I could pull off the six-pack shot, I might try Tinder again. Seeing all those bikini and lingerie shots was also making me self conscious lol, it reminded me of reading maxim as a 15 year old. There's so many hot women out there lol, where'd they come from?

I'm not alone. There are lots of posts on reddit of men downloading their info from Tinder and learning that their match rate is far below 1% or maybe even 0.1%. I think that mine is at least above 1% -- I didn't count. So I'm doing better than them lol, but to good enough that this was worth my time.

I have a reason to be motivated now. In about two or three months, my hair transplant will start blooming. That is more than enough time to lose the remaining ~10 lbs that I've gained from the past year's worth of travel. I can take better photos then. I have some ideas for brilliant photos.

***

Separately, if somebody reading this wants a suggestion, I do recommend paying $20/month to Bumble, now that I've tried it some two or three years after Macaroni suggested that I do it. It lets you see the women who have swiped righto on you prior to getting to them. Also, it allows unlimited boosts in one day. Some days I get zero matches but other days I get a few, so it helps to be able to use multiple boosts per day. The 24-hour time limit on Bumble often means losing matches due to people being busy, a lot of women actually respond in the 24-48 hour period resulting from the boost.
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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Hairblues » 1 month ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 month ago
I ended up deleting my Tinder profile.

Of the ~15 or so first dates that I've had this year, only two were from Tinder. I do less well on that app than I do on e.g. Bumble, for which there may be any number of reasons. I think that a lot of the profiles are fake, and that the user base is a lot more focused on hook-ups.

I am now approximately average-looking, but I'm not good-looking. What I offer is smart, sweet, stylish and professional gentleman chic with a sense of humor, and average looks. That is appreciated on Bumble, but not on Tinder. There are women there who explicitly state that they want a sugar daddy, for which I'd need a minimum salary of say $250,000/year (I think?), and honestly that's not what I would do with that income. A large fraction of the women there post bikini/lingerie shots, with the camera directly focused on their butt or breasts.

It's the mirror image of men showing off their six-pack in their profile shots. Many women say that they hate that, and I believe them. But at the same time, lots of other women love it I'm sure, and that's all a person needs. If I could pull off the six-pack shot, I might try Tinder again. Seeing all those bikini and lingerie shots was also making me self conscious lol, it reminded me of reading maxim as a 15 year old. There's so many hot women out there lol, where'd they come from?

I'm not alone. There are lots of posts on reddit of men downloading their info from Tinder and learning that their match rate is far below 1% or maybe even 0.1%. I think that mine is at least above 1% -- I didn't count. So I'm doing better than them lol, but to good enough that this was worth my time.

I have a reason to be motivated now. In about two or three months, my hair transplant will start blooming. That is more than enough time to lose the remaining ~10 lbs that I've gained from the past year's worth of travel. I can take better photos then. I have some ideas for brilliant photos.

***

Separately, if somebody reading this wants a suggestion, I do recommend paying $20/month to Bumble, now that I've tried it some two or three years after Macaroni suggested that I do it. It lets you see the women who have swiped righto on you prior to getting to them. Also, it allows unlimited boosts in one day. Some days I get zero matches but other days I get a few, so it helps to be able to use multiple boosts per day. The 24-hour time limit on Bumble often means losing matches due to people being busy, a lot of women actually respond in the 24-48 hour period resulting from the boost.

Most men I speak to in real life consider Tinder a place to go hook up. I also felt like bumble and ok Cupid are better apps.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 month ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 month ago
Most men I speak to in real life consider Tinder a place to go hook up. I also felt like bumble and ok Cupid are better apps.
Perhaps OkCupid has recovered since I last look. My impression was that it took a hit when it changed its format. Though if I try a new app, it's likeliest to be Hinge. People seem to like Hinge.

I will not be trying facebook dating anytime, and I hope that it doesn't build up the marketshare to become popular enough to warrant trying it. I can see why Facebook would make a dating app though, it might be a way for Zuckerberg to challenge his engineers and data scientists, Facebook is supposed to hire some of the best, so they should be able to prove it.

One of the smartest men that I knew in undergrad -- extremely smart and knowledgeable in each of software development, physics, math, philosophy, music, art, physiology, etc -- did a PhD in neuroscience, and now works for Facebook in that capacity. That kind of scares me. He has the necessary brains to damage society lol.
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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Hairblues » 1 month ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 month ago
Perhaps OkCupid has recovered since I last look. My impression was that it took a hit when it changed its format. Though if I try a new app, it's likeliest to be Hinge. People seem to like Hinge.

I will not be trying facebook dating anytime, and I hope that it doesn't build up the marketshare to become popular enough to warrant trying it. I can see why Facebook would make a dating app though, it might be a way for Zuckerberg to challenge his engineers and data scientists, Facebook is supposed to hire some of the best, so they should be able to prove it.

One of the smartest men that I knew in undergrad -- extremely smart and knowledgeable in each of software development, physics, math, philosophy, music, art, physiology, etc -- did a PhD in neuroscience, and now works for Facebook in that capacity. That kind of scares me. He has the necessary brains to damage society lol.
Interesting. Yeah the personal data collection scares me.
I think Snowden is coming out with a book or interview about Govt data collection.

My dr convinced me to do a genetic test for cancer because a specific one runs in my family. (I’m negative which is good) anyway it creeps me out for some reason that I had this done with the genetics lab. I don't know if I’m just watching too much Tv and getting paranoid. My fear is one day if insurance can once again discriminate against peoooe with pre existing conditions, further, if genetics will play a role in ‘possible’ illness and make insurance companies privy to this and not give coverage or will charge higher prices . (Think I saw this on an episode of Lucifer now that I think about it).

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 month ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 month ago
Interesting. Yeah the personal data collection scares me.
I think Snowden is coming out with a book or interview about Govt data collection.

My dr convinced me to do a genetic test for cancer because a specific one runs in my family. (I’m negative which is good) anyway it creeps me out for some reason that I had this done with the genetics lab. I don't know if I’m just watching too much Tv and getting paranoid. My fear is one day if insurance can once again discriminate against peoooe with pre existing conditions, further, if genetics will play a role in ‘possible’ illness and make insurance companies privy to this and not give coverage or will charge higher prices . (Think I saw this on an episode of Lucifer now that I think about it).
I have those same fears. And I really resent that there's no good option for private genetics testing. They're totally going to fuck us over, and moreover, I know just enough to see that genetics are almost certainly more complex than their models are going to assume.

I'd like to know my ancestry. I can't ask my parents, my father is dead and my mother is wholly unreliable. When I look in the mirror, I see a mixed-ethnicity person.
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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by kj6723 » 4 weeks ago

OK Cupid definitely has the lamest format of the ones I tried

I literally never had tinder lead to any real life encounters, but I guess I maybe gave up on it relatively quickly. In my area it also seems to be like 75% 19 year olds on there. My impression with tinder is also that people use it primarily for hooking up and are not looking for anything serious on there

Hinge and Bumble have my favorite formats of the one's I've used

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Admin » 4 weeks ago

kj6723 wrote:
4 weeks ago
OK Cupid definitely has the lamest format of the ones I tried

I literally never had tinder lead to any real life encounters, but I guess I maybe gave up on it relatively quickly. In my area it also seems to be like 75% 19 year olds on there. My impression with tinder is also that people use it primarily for hooking up and are not looking for anything serious on there

Hinge and Bumble have my favorite formats of the one's I've used
https://muchneeded.com/tinder-statistics/
6. 80% of Tinder users seek meaningful relationships
To most people, Tinder is just a hookup app. However, Tinder reports that its users don’t just see it that way. It says that out of its 20 billion matches, 80% of them are looking for meaningful relationships.

This goes against the reputation the app has gained over the years. It has been found that 22% of students on Tinder use Tinder for hookups. However, for people looking for serious relationships too, you can get a lot of information about your potential date.
And that's only among students, one can imagine that working adults are much more likely to be looking for a meaningful relationship.

I personally know many people (directly or indirectly) that met on Tinder who have gotten married recently. So yeah, it's really an a priori we have, that's thankfully not based on reality. Of course the vast majority of people would be looking for meaningful relationships. And I suspect that this number is even higher for women.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Arjen » 3 weeks ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 month ago
What I offer is smart, sweet, stylish and professional gentleman chic with a sense of humor, and average looks. That is appreciated on Bumble, but not on Tinder.
How would you define the „chicness“ part and how do you manage to get that across, first in pics, then in conversations?

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

Post by Hairblues » 3 weeks ago

Arjen wrote:
3 weeks ago
How would you define the „chicness“ part and how do you manage to get that across, first in pics, then in conversations?
I took that to mean how he dresses. I think chic is visual not conversational impression. But I’ve never looked up the word only known it’s use in fashion and design.

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Re: Yet another Tinder experiment

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