Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

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alexXx999
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Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by alexXx999 » 1 week ago

Hello guys,

I am 23 years old, 24 in 1 month, i am dealing with hair loss since 4 years more or less, I am now a norwood 3V with a bald spot on the vertex and general thinning (with some little holes here n there), I tried lots of Antiandrogens such as Oral Finasteride, Topical Finasteride, CB0301, Trinov, Spironolactone (i'm waiting for my RU58841 to arrive, just to try it but i don't expect much), i got sides with everything so i dumped antiandrogens...

This is why i am planning my long term plan.... i'm well aware of the majority of the problems related to hair loss, hair transplant, ecc

I'm actually on Minoxidil 8%, done Botox Injections on the perimeter muscles and i'm using Carboxytherapy as alternative therapies to see if i can at least slow down things, tried bunch of supplements as well, nothing really worked...

In my family most men who're bald are NW6, luckily not complete full-blown NW7, anyway, I know my future already, i have almost all the Norwood 6 zone miniaturized and thin, i know i'll lose my hair in the next years.

Since i know i'll become a NW6, inspired by the Admin's results and others, i decided to take action and doing something for my hair...
This is my plan:

1) Undergo a first hair transplant (I know i'll need multiple surgeries), i don't want a FUT, only FUE because i want the freedom to shave if necessary

The first hair transplant purpose should be to recreate a conservative hair line (Like Admin's hair line), V-Shaped, Norwood 2, in order to save some grafts for the future but to have at least the face-shaped... hair line is more important than the crown for me, so i need a hair line with enough density (of course not a dense pack, but not even 15 grafts/cm2), then i would like to fill some thin zones here and there in the mid scalp and start to take care of the crown, i think 3000 grafts would be okay to do the first surgery, i also want to implant some beard/body grafts in the middle/crown region in order to blend scalp hair and beard hair and see the result.

2) To give the illusion of density, i'm gonna do regular scalp micropigmentation (i have a good deal here, cheap prices because the proprietary of the saloon is a friend), i saw fantastic results online, it greatly adds density, Watch here for example or here, it should help me cover some thinning spots along the road and give an illusion of better density.

3)After a while i'll need at least another transplant to fill the rest and add some density all over i think, i'm planning to mix again Hair scalp and Body Hair to blend everything together


4) If SMP + Hair transplants + Body Hair transplant wouldn't be enough to have a decent result, i'm okay with shave everything and cover my FUE little scars with SMP, i like my look with a shaven head, i think i'd look even better with a Buzzcut, i'm just wondering if transplanted hair will look natural whit a buzzcut since i have read online that often the root of the transplanted hair are thick and the direction is innatural, so a Buzzcut with a FUE isn't adviced, even though i have my jolly of this SMP friend who can help blend better the transplanted hair with native hair and also cover the back, i don't know here, what do you think? is it possible to have a buzzcut with a Fue?


I hope something new will come out in the future, i'm open to try new things, but for now i have to do what i can to "prolongue" the problem as much as possible, with this plans i think i could at least have a decent head of hair for 10 years, in 10 years i'll be 34, it will be a better age to embrace baldness, my 20s has been already destroyed by hair loss, i want to do what i can to enjoy my youth as much as possible, i have the rest of my life to be bald, i hope i can at least create the illusion of a decent head of hair thru multiple transplants, SMP, toppik, ecc

As i said, in order to save precious grafts, i am okay to keep the crown thin

My hair are black, the caliber is medium and they are straight, i have also a small head that should help with the transplants...

What do you guys think? My Plan B would be to receive a low density FUE to recreate a great hair line with a SMP and keep a buzzcut even though i would prefer to grow some hair in the top

I think that my expectations aren't that high, i don't expect to have a perfect density or a perfect straight nw0 hair line, i just want some hair to then use fibers and SMP to give the illusion of a greater head, i don't even think this will last a lifetime, i don't even care, 10-15 years would be an amazing achievement

In the attachment you can see the state of my hair now, i shaved few days ago

In the second attachment you can see instead the donor hair of my dad at 52 years old so you can have a better idea about the pattern
Attachments
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dad donor.jpg (12 KiB) Viewed 332 times
thinnin2.jpg
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Afro_Vacancy
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

alexXx999 wrote:
1 week ago
Hello guys,

I am 23 years old, 24 in 1 month, i am dealing with hair loss since 4 years more or less, I am now a norwood 3V with a bald spot on the vertex and general thinning (with some little holes here n there), I tried lots of Antiandrogens such as Oral Finasteride, Topical Finasteride, CB0301, Trinov, Spironolactone (i'm waiting for my RU58841 to arrive, just to try it but i don't expect much), i got sides with everything so i dumped antiandrogens...

This is why i am planning my long term plan.... i'm well aware of the majority of the problems related to hair loss, hair transplant, ecc

I'm actually on Minoxidil 8%, done Botox Injections on the perimeter muscles and i'm using Carboxytherapy as alternative therapies to see if i can at least slow down things, tried bunch of supplements as well, nothing really worked...

In my family most men who're bald are NW6, luckily not complete full-blown NW7, anyway, I know my future already, i have almost all the Norwood 6 zone miniaturized and thin, i know i'll lose my hair in the next years.

Since i know i'll become a NW6, inspired by the Admin's results and others, i decided to take action and doing something for my hair...
This is my plan:

1) Undergo a first hair transplant (I know i'll need multiple surgeries), i don't want a FUT, only FUE because i want the freedom to shave if necessary

The first hair transplant purpose should be to recreate a conservative hair line (Like Admin's hair line), V-Shaped, Norwood 2, in order to save some grafts for the future but to have at least the face-shaped... hair line is more important than the crown for me, so i need a hair line with enough density (of course not a dense pack, but not even 15 grafts/cm2), then i would like to fill some thin zones here and there in the mid scalp and start to take care of the crown, i think 3000 grafts would be okay to do the first surgery, i also want to implant some beard/body grafts in the middle/crown region in order to blend scalp hair and beard hair and see the result.

2) To give the illusion of density, i'm gonna do regular scalp micropigmentation (i have a good deal here, cheap prices because the proprietary of the saloon is a friend), i saw fantastic results online, it greatly adds density, Watch here for example or here, it should help me cover some thinning spots along the road and give an illusion of better density.

3)After a while i'll need at least another transplant to fill the rest and add some density all over i think, i'm planning to mix again Hair scalp and Body Hair to blend everything together


4) If SMP + Hair transplants + Body Hair transplant wouldn't be enough to have a decent result, i'm okay with shave everything and cover my FUE little scars with SMP, i like my look with a shaven head, i think i'd look even better with a Buzzcut, i'm just wondering if transplanted hair will look natural whit a buzzcut since i have read online that often the root of the transplanted hair are thick and the direction is innatural, so a Buzzcut with a FUE isn't adviced, even though i have my jolly of this SMP friend who can help blend better the transplanted hair with native hair and also cover the back, i don't know here, what do you think? is it possible to have a buzzcut with a Fue?


I hope something new will come out in the future, i'm open to try new things, but for now i have to do what i can to "prolongue" the problem as much as possible, with this plans i think i could at least have a decent head of hair for 10 years, in 10 years i'll be 34, it will be a better age to embrace baldness, my 20s has been already destroyed by hair loss, i want to do what i can to enjoy my youth as much as possible, i have the rest of my life to be bald, i hope i can at least create the illusion of a decent head of hair thru multiple transplants, SMP, toppik, ecc

As i said, in order to save precious grafts, i am okay to keep the crown thin

My hair are black, the caliber is medium and they are straight, i have also a small head that should help with the transplants...

What do you guys think? My Plan B would be to receive a low density FUE to recreate a great hair line with a SMP and keep a buzzcut even though i would prefer to grow some hair in the top

I think that my expectations aren't that high, i don't expect to have a perfect density or a perfect straight nw0 hair line, i just want some hair to then use fibers and SMP to give the illusion of a greater head, i don't even think this will last a lifetime, i don't even care, 10-15 years would be an amazing achievement

In the attachment you can see the state of my hair now, i shaved few days ago

In the second attachment you can see instead the donor hair of my dad at 52 years old so you can have a better idea about the pattern
Hello Alex, welcome to the forum.

Which side effects did you get on which anti androgens? Did they go away when you quit? What dosage of RU58841 are you planning?

Your hair transplant strategy will depend on your budget. It's impossible to give general advice, the costs vary a lot.
PhD in Internalized Incelism.

alexXx999
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by alexXx999 » 1 week ago

I've got the typical side effects... ED, Gynecomastia, depression, fatigue, brain fog....

I have always recovered from AA Sides but i always used them for just few weeks/months at maximum as i had side effects almost immediately....

I will not come back again to try AA's in general, i'm just waiting for my RU58841 to arrive, i'll try low at 30 mg/day, then slowly increase 5 mg at week till i'll arrive at 50mg/day or 5%, i don't have much hope that it is a viable option for me to be honest... but let's see....

regarding the budget, it is really flexible, let's say for now and the next 5 years i'd cut my budget for the hair transplants only to 20k €

Of course, the cheapest, the better, IF the quality is good!

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

alexXx999 wrote:
1 week ago
I've got the typical side effects... ED, Gynecomastia, depression, fatigue, brain fog....

I have always recovered from AA Sides but i always used them for just few weeks/months at maximum as i had side effects almost immediately....

I will not come back again to try AA's in general, i'm just waiting for my RU58841 to arrive, i'll try low at 30 mg/day, then slowly increase 5 mg at week till i'll arrive at 50mg/day or 5%, i don't have much hope that it is a viable option for me to be honest... but let's see....

regarding the budget, it is really flexible, let's say for now and the next 5 years i'd cut my budget for the hair transplants only to 20k €

Of course, the cheapest, the better, IF the quality is good!
Ok, so you are unlucky, but not super unlucky. There are people for whom the sides persist after discontinuing the drug, be thankful that you're not among them.

RU58841 doesn't actually kill your androgens, but it blocks your androgen receptors. So in practice it's a little different. However, it will feel the same if you take a high-enough dose. I take 20 mg a day, which is a weak dose.

Are you using nizoral shampoo?
Have you considered microneedling?

For 20,000 euros, you can get one if the best transplant surgeons in the world. @JLBB is the most knowledgeable poster here in that area and can help you.

You might consider Enrah Cinik in Turkey. I got a transplant at his Istanbul clinic for 2,600 euros, which included pickup to and from the airport, to and from the clinic, medications, PRP, and three nights of hotel. I'm now two months past transplant and am beginning to see regrowth.
PhD in Internalized Incelism.

alexXx999
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by alexXx999 » 1 week ago

thanks for the answer, yes Dr. Cinik seems okay! Anyway it should have been the same with CB0301, instead i've got Gyno and depression....

I'll try with 30 mg/day and then i'll scale up to 50mg/day...

If you probably can find some hair loss remedy on the internet, stay sure i tried it already, did microneedling for 8 months with a dermapen, no results at all.... tried Carboxytherapy, Botox, Oils, ecc... nothing stopped my hair loss, only antiandrogens did

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

alexXx999 wrote:
1 week ago
thanks for the answer, yes Dr. Cinik seems okay! Anyway it should have been the same with CB0301, instead i've got Gyno and depression....

I'll try with 30 mg/day and then i'll scale up to 50mg/day...

If you probably can find some hair loss remedy on the internet, stay sure i tried it already, did microneedling for 8 months with a dermapen, no results at all.... tried Carboxytherapy, Botox, Oils, ecc... nothing stopped my hair loss, only antiandrogens did
I have a thread in the hair transplant section where I detail my experiences with Cinik. I'll be posting updated photos soon.
PhD in Internalized Incelism.

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

@alexXx999

In 2013, I was in the same position you were. I was a Norwood five, with a comb over. It was very
obvious I was about to go to Norwood six.

This is what my hair looks like today. I never had a transplant in my life, and I'm close to fifty
years old (so why bother).

Here's my hair line. It's only a little more than 1.5 inches of hair recession (at the left temple). There is new
terminal hair growing in. Most of my recession is on my right temple, as you can see.
20191005_104142.jpg
20191005_104142.jpg (1.23 MiB) Viewed 262 times
This is my vertex, which used to have a large bald spot. Now I have a very small bald spot.
20191005_104157.jpg
20191005_104157.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 262 times
I would highly recommend you get the following topical only treatment. Do not take oral doses,
as you might get side effects (everyone is different).

You really should see a doctor before doing this, and only use doctor prescribed products.

1. A high Progesterone amount. I'm using two percent topical.

2. .1% Finasteride. If that is too strong, you can always opt out for
a smaller dose.

3. A 1.5 mm needle (dermarolling). It has made some minor differences in my hair line area.
For your case I would only use a dermastamp on the balding areas. I only use dermarolling on my hair line.

You should start fast, because eventually you're going to run out of time.
Last edited by rclark 1 week ago, edited 1 time in total.

alexXx999
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by alexXx999 » 1 week ago

You probably haven't read my post...
I can't tolerate Antiandrogens, neither the smallest dose, topical or oral doesn't make any difference at all, since even topicals gets assorbed and I'm too sensitive to Antiandrogens in general, it is not a viable solution for me

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

alexXx999 wrote:
1 week ago
You probably haven't read my post...
I can't tolerate Antiandrogens, neither the smallest dose, topical or oral doesn't make any difference at all, since even topicals gets assorbed and I'm too sensitive to Antiandrogens in general, it is not a viable solution for me
Progesterone gets converted to testosterone (not DHT, which harms follicles). It's commonly
prescribed to males for hairloss (see medicalwellnesscenter website), but in small dosages, usually
.05% topical.

Here's a scientific article published in 1968.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 8X68801473

Please understand that I used to think that higher Minoxidil solutions would solve hair loss. It
will not, and I was for wrong for thinking it would. I used to take a thirty percent solution, and I was still balding.
While it might temporarily help, it will not be permanent. Today I take a 15% Minoxidil solution,
but it is the other ingredients that are doing the work, not the Minoxidil.

When I was 20, I was the poster child for Minoxidil. Went from Norwood two to zero in a month
(and 2%, which was the only available dosage back then, Finasteride wasn't even available for
hair loss).

This is only a suggestion. You have to be happy with your choice at the end of the day.

The issue with buying some products online, is we cannot confirm the purity, without
a prescription.

That said, a lot of hair medications go bad due to external factors, such as temperature and
other variables.

alexXx999
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by alexXx999 » 4 days ago

Is there a way to do your own donor area density calculation? Seems like I have the same pattern of my family, some remenent hair on the mid scalp, a small island in the fron between the temples, and a NW6/Nw7 pattern, I know that probably the best option would be to have a fut First and then FUE after, but since now I'm shaved and I kinda like it, I would like to have the option to shave my head one day, and with Scalp Micropigmentation I could cover the little white scars done by the FUE procedure, I can't say the same about FUT, it is still a debate on me... With FUT I could probably extract more hair, but is it the trade of not being able to shave your hair in case your density won't be enough worth it?

The other option I was thinking about is to extract as many donor hair as possible and then do a FUE with body hair to refill the donor area, if you keep your donor area short, it wouldn't be that much of a problem in my opinion...

Do you guys think this is a norwood 6 pattern or a Norwood 7 pattern?
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by yettee » 3 days ago

rclark wrote:
1 week ago
Please understand that I used to think that higher Minoxidil solutions would solve hair loss. It
will not, and I was for wrong for thinking it would. I used to take a thirty percent solution, and I was still balding.
While it might temporarily help, it will not be permanent. Today I take a 15% Minoxidil solution,
but it is the other ingredients that are doing the work, not the Minoxidil.
I remember those days... and you might remember that years ago, on HairLossTalk in the minoxidil forum, there was a guy (very nice guy) who was applying I think 30ml of foam a day to his head. And he reported great growth but also had health problems as a result, and he then finally cut back on it. ... Around that time I was applying 4-5 ml a day, now I'm at around 3 1/4ml a day. Still maintaining with it, as my balding isn't that aggressive.

lol I think this is my first hair-related post on this forum

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by kj6723 » 3 days ago

yettee wrote:
3 days ago
I remember those days... and you might remember that years ago, on HairLossTalk in the minoxidil forum, there was a guy (very nice guy) who was applying I think 30ml of foam a day to his head. And he reported great growth but also had health problems as a result, and he then finally cut back on it. ... Around that time I was applying 4-5 ml a day, now I'm at around 3 1/4ml a day. Still maintaining with it, as my balding isn't that aggressive.

lol I think this is my first hair-related post on this forum

Currently I apply about 4-5 ml 1x a day, with no noticeable side effects

And I only apply it to my hair line and slightly back into the frontal 3rd. I never understood how you’re supposed to cover any kind of meaningful ground or be sure you’re saturating a sufficient amount of the scalp with the 1ml recommended dosage

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rclark
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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by rclark » 2 days ago

yettee wrote:
3 days ago
I remember those days... and you might remember that years ago, on HairLossTalk in the minoxidil forum, there was a guy (very nice guy) who was applying I think 30ml of foam a day to his head. And he reported great growth but also had health problems as a result, and he then finally cut back on it. ... Around that time I was applying 4-5 ml a day, now I'm at around 3 1/4ml a day. Still maintaining with it, as my balding isn't that aggressive.

lol I think this is my first hair-related post on this forum
You're definitely the exception then, if that's your case. For me, the Finasteride/Progesterone definitely does almost
all the work, not the 15% Minoxidil. I keep getting new terminal hairs. In fact,
I have a centimeter now coming in on my right temple. It amazes me, but this didn't happen for me until
I added Finasteride and Progesterone. Also, when I started dermarolling.

I'm finally at the point I'm enjoying my hair. No more buzzcuts. I just get an expensive haircut yesterday, and
my hair is growing 1.5 inches per month. There is terminal hair on my right temple. It's no longer triangular like it
used to be. In fact my left side is nearly flat as well.

I'm hitting the half century mark soon. My hair looks so much better now. I'm growing it out, and I'm also wondering
what it will look like in winter.

Added in 2 minutes 6 seconds:
kj6723 wrote:
3 days ago
Currently I apply about 4-5 ml 1x a day, with no noticeable side effects

And I only apply it to my hair line and slightly back into the frontal 3rd. I never understood how you’re supposed to cover any kind of meaningful ground or be sure you’re saturating a sufficient amount of the scalp with the 1ml recommended dosage
You definitely have good density now. Did you notice more regrowth when you started using dutasteride or Finasteride?

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by kj6723 » 2 days ago

rclark wrote:
2 days ago
You definitely have good density now. Did you notice more regrowth when you started using dutasteride or Finasteride?
I started minoxidil and finasteride roughly around the same time (started minoxidil like 2 months prior to finasteride) and have been very gradually regrowing since then. After about 3.5 years of treatment(wow, can't believe it's been that long!) I am still slowly edging closer and closer to NW1. When I switched to dutasteride a year ago it may have expedited/increased regrowth but there's no way to know for sure. I am still having new terminal hairs consistently pop up at my hair line and temple angles...noticed some new ones this week in fact. The "treatments max out at 2 years" theory does not apply to all. Some of the miniaturization just takes longer to reverse

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Re: Long term plan without finasteride, help needed FUE+BHT+SMP

Post by yettee » 2 days ago

rclark wrote:
2 days ago
You're definitely the exception then, if that's your case...

My hair looks so much better now. I'm growing it out, and I'm also wondering what it will look like in winter.
Ya, I think my balding, such as it is, is very slow. So I had a bald spot developing and a slowly receding hair line, and a few years later it hasn't gotten worse.

It's great that you have good hair news. I think your hair will rock in the winter.

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