Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

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rclark
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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:12 am

Alright, I'm trying 1.5 millimeters now.

I'm too far gone I'm afraid (receded hairline has bald spots that have been dead for 17 years).

Is anybody interested in pictures?

I don't think I'm going to get as much hair as the previous post, because the guy is much younger than
I am.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by kj6723 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:17 pm
I started dermarolling a few weeks ago, I believe it was @kj6723 who informed me about Somebody that peaked my interest, so thanks for that KJ. Also I appreciate @That Guy's clarity in the thread that the study isn't based on creating scar tissue, which is vital, you don't completely wreck the follicle in order to build it up again, that obviously wouldn't work.

Also I think it should be noted that the study only had a weekly derma rolling session, I believe Somebody does it daily. I haven't got in to a routine yet but I was planning on doing it daily.

So a few questions I have since starting-

Frequency and cleaning it- I understand you should leave the needles in rubbing alcohol as re-using it with dead skin can cause an infection. Now this is the kinda thing where I'm normally like "eh fuck it" but I have had a few spots on my head before, and a full blown infection + diffuse thinning, bad fucking look. I'd be seriously regretting it and feel dumb. So I clean the roller after each use, run warm water on it for a few minutes and then leave in alcohol for 10mins (sometimes I just leave it in the alcohol and don't take it out, does this potentially blunt the needles or anything?) but doing this daily is going to be fucking annoying actually, you have to use quite a lot of alcohol to fill a little cap that can immerse the full derma. So I'd re-use the alcohol but I swear, the shit evaporates, even when covered, I come back the next day and the caps empty, no leaking or anything, just gone. It's annoying enough having to hide bottles of alcohol, on top of minoxidil, pills, nizoral I just leave out and it just says anti-dandruff so nobody would know, but I've only derma-rolled several times and already halfway through a 750ml bottle of rubbing alcohol, if I was doing it daily I'd need a new bottle like every 2 weeks. So how often should I do it? Is weekly fine? Why does Somebody choose daily and is this why he's had great results?

Method of applying- as in, number of strokes back and forth, going over the same part of the skin, etc.

So here's a video KJ sent me on how to apply the derma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxd2S-oVmps

So he's stroking back and forth about 4-6 times, which counts as each roll being in total 8-12 strokes. I'm a bit confused about going over the same part of the skin repeatedly because I've read from the dermaroller direction leaflet and also various online sources (mainly women talking about derma rolling for the face and tighter skin) that you don't roll back and forth, because the needles will repeat over the exact same skin "holes" you're creating and cause unnecessary scarring.

However, this being said, I did watch some women's videos on dermarolling for the face (I might try this for skin actually), and these aren't amateur youtubers or anything they knew everything about the application in huge amounts of detail. So when it came to actual application, they just ran back and forth the exact same as Somebody does it (and the natural way you'd want to do it) even though the leaflet and other articles I read warned against doing this, and instead run it forward, lift it up off the skin, and run it forward at the same spot again, instead of back and forth which runs over the same exact follicles each time.

Needless to say I just run it back and forth, seeing as that's all I've seen people do online, despite what the warnings are. I'm curious if everyone else does it this way? Does anyone even give a shit?

Also I'd like to know why @JasonStatham thinks that Somebody is "conning" us, what exactly is he getting from this? His 500 youtube views? So he started updating his success on HairLossTalk about a decade ago, several years on and he starts a youtube channel which he updates infrequently, with such low viewing figures that I doubt he's even made $20 in total from all his revenue combined.

Where does the "con" come in? He's making money off the dermaroller companies or something? I think I've only ever seen once where he gave the type of dermaroller he uses (clearly just as advice), if he was making anything off of them he'd have it plastered on every video and post.

I mean at the very most we could think it's a guy who got a hair transplant and is trolling us, but damn what an elaborate trolling that would be, years of effort to not even really piss anyone off (as like with other treatments, nobody goes in to this expecting guaranteed results).

It just doesn't make sense.
I do basically the same thing; before and after each use I rinse it and submerge it in 91% isopropyl alcohol. I buy 2 32 fl ounce bottles at a time and they usual last me at least a couple weeks. I also roll back and forth, the same as Somebody. As far as hiding it, I don't know. Nobody every really goes in the room where I keep my dermaroller at the moment. I am also real big on keeping my male pattern baldness stuff discreet. As soon as I get a new supply of minoxidil in the mail I immediately rip the labels off all the bottles

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm

That Guy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:33 pm
Yeah, exactly. People on HairLossTalk blow it waaay out of proportion.

Like right now, they're talking about this press conference Tsuji held recently. There's all this talk about how he's totally gonna win nobel prizes, men will be lining up in droves to get it done, no matter the cost!

Lol no they won't. I mean, at least not initially.

It's normal for people to take the path of least resistance. Maybe 10 - 20 years in the future, if baldness can be cured cheaply and easily, then yes: You'll see a lot more men doing it, and a lot more pressure on bald men to do it.

Until then, men will delude themselves into thinking it's unimportant and too much effort, anyway.
He's at it again: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/t ... st-1681214

He says that most balding men are doing something about it. 51% of balding men are treating their hair loss?

Well, let's look at some facts: https://www.belgraviacentre.com/blog/ha ... tatistics/

- 87% of British men don’t know that there are scientifically proven and medically approved hair loss treatments.

This one alone blows his statement out of the water. He then mentions that 70% of his friends, who by his own admission are people who rely on their looks to get by in life are doing something about their hair loss. You don't say! He can't seem to look past his own situation and circle of friends, so he'll think his friends' experiences can be applied to the rest of the population.

Anyway, it's a shame that again, no one will address this nonsense on HairlossTalk. One of those moments I really wish I was there and could reply, but we know what would happen: ad hominem + warning message to tell me to stop trolling + ban.

I was just at an event organized by my company and God, there were many, many young guys in their late 20's and early 30's who were either bald or badly diffusing. So yep, again, the vast majority of men do jack shit to treat their hair loss, and that's the reality of the situation.
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by supremegentleman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Hello. I am planning to buy a dermaroller 1.5mm as suggested by many. How often should I dermaroll? Everytime when I apply minoxidil or less often?

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Rudiger » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 pm

There's a "Microneedling" thread on this subforum, there's a lot of info but basically at minimum once a week, at maximum once a day I'd say. I've been doing it 3-4 times a week, the study that the thread was based on had guys doing it only once a week.

Also in that thread we posted info and youtube videos from a guy called Somebody, who regrew a full head of hair from diffuse NW4 (not that this is normal) but he still does dermarolling on a daily basis, even as a fullhead.

EDIT: Also cleaning the needle is annoying (because we don't know if it's doing anything) but vital, dead skin on the needle that dries out can cause inflammation, and if you're diffuse like myself this is a potential nightmare.

So you need isopropyl 70% (though I think KJ uses 91%) rubbing alchol, and after rolling put the needle in a little cap of it submerged for 10mins, run warm water over it for a few minutes and also more warm water over it before rolling again.
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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by supremegentleman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Thanks Rudiger for the answer. Should I first apply Minoxidil and then dermaroll or the other way around?

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Rudiger » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:08 pm

supremegentleman wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:41 pm
Thanks Rudiger for the answer. Should I first apply Minoxidil and then dermaroll or the other way around?
No problem, I can see the idea behind minoxidil first (like, pushing it in to the scalp?) but I believe it's derma first, open the "wounds" and then apply the minoxidil direct.
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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by kj6723 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:16 am

Rudiger wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 pm
There's a "Microneedling" thread on this subforum, there's a lot of info but basically at minimum once a week, at maximum once a day I'd say. I've been doing it 3-4 times a week, the study that the thread was based on had guys doing it only once a week.

Also in that thread we posted info and youtube videos from a guy called Somebody, who regrew a full head of hair from diffuse NW4 (not that this is normal) but he still does dermarolling on a daily basis, even as a fullhead.

EDIT: Also cleaning the needle is annoying (because we don't know if it's doing anything) but vital, dead skin on the needle that dries out can cause inflammation, and if you're diffuse like myself this is a potential nightmare.

So you need isopropyl 70% (though I think KJ uses 91%) rubbing alchol, and after rolling put the needle in a little cap of it submerged for 10mins, run warm water over it for a few minutes and also more warm water over it before rolling again.
Truth be told I don't necessarily leave mine sitting in the alcohol for that long....sometimes I just count to 30 seconds, sometimes for a couple minutes, and occasionally for a more extended duration. I haven't had any issues so far though with infection or skin reactions

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 am

I haven't been getting any shedding at all, since I've raised my dermaroller to a 1.5 mm.

I've been doing it ten times on each side, and even in my barely diffuse areas. Basically all
over the top of my scalp.

I'm following it with 15% Minoxidil, 2% Progesterone, .1% Finasteride. And then 30% Minoxidil (some nights),
.1% Finasteride, and .5% Progesterone.

Everything I take is topical.

I don't think I will see any gains at all. But if I do, I'm definitely going to be
happy about it.

I'm actually much older than 35, which was the upper age limit for this study.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by supremegentleman » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:48 pm

Where do I buy a decent 1.5 dermaroller and what brand? Don't want it crazy expensive but would like something good that will last or at least can be replaced every now and then.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Rudiger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:29 pm

supremegentleman wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:48 pm
Where do I buy a decent 1.5 dermaroller and what brand? Don't want it crazy expensive but would like something good that will last or at least can be replaced every now and then.
I just went on Amazon, they're all in like the $5-$15 range and probably need to replace every 6 months to a year, I'm still new so I'd imagine at some point the blades will dull and you'll have to press harder and harder to get a reddish skin reaction each time, until you know it's done.

I actually bought from 2 different companies and I can't imagine anything with good reviews is going to be bad. I bought from a seller literally called "Derma Roller" and another one from "Skin Radiance", this was on amazon.co.uk not .com. I also watched some Youtube videos from women who derma rolled their face, and while some were plugging certain companies there were others who said almost all companies have the titanium needles and if they're trusted (which I guess means lots of reviews with 4 stars or more) then you can't go wrong.
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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:20 am

It is actually working for me, believe it or not. I'm actually surprised, in
a good way. I really thought I was too far gone, and too old for it to work (I'm over
ten years older than the oldest people in the study).

And I'm getting a lot of terminal hair. Not just a little. It definitely will become
terminal.

Here is what I am doing:

1. Applying 15% Minoxidil/2% Progesterone, .1% Finasteride topical to my entire
vertex and temples.

2. Rubbing a 1.5 mm derma needle around all areas. Between five to ten times.

There is no bleeding, but I think the company makes the needles duller. When I used
the 1.1 mm needle, there was blood. Not this time, very little, if any.

And, as far as my temple is concerned, I am at least a Norwood three, but really higher
because I also have vertex baldness (thinning/diffuse) on top.

I was really shocked. I am going to show pictures of it as well.
Last edited by rclark on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:33 pm

So I just started dermarolling on my crown area with my old 1.5mm dermaroller that I bought back in 2013. I already knew the feeling and what it was going to do, a couple of blood leaks here and there and redness overall (erythema), but still, I was afraid that the redness wouldn't go away after a few hours, but I always underestime how fast I heal (like after my hair transplant), so after less than an hour, the redness was gone.

I'm really not expecting anything with this. I plan to do it once a week while using those topicals: 5% minoxidil, stemoxydine and adenosin. I'm slightly more excited that I would be about having that PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma) procedure, but the evidence about dermarolling doing anything substantial is quite weak in my opinion. People talk about something slightly better than vellus hair, which is still better than nothng if I want to use Dermmatch or Toppik for example.

Lately I've also been concerned about how many grafts I had left in my donor area, De Reys said 700-800 grafts which might be enough to give me something decent given the area that needs to be covered but it's not certain. Other than that, I'm currently smothering my beard in 5% minoxidil in case I want to speard some beard grafts (I'd choose Bisanga for that job if he's up for it) in my crown area.

But even with all this, I really think we're getting close to new effective treatments becoming available. It's just such a pity that I'm so close to a true fullish head of hair (well with a NW2.5), stupid crown, if it had held just a little better. But of course, I never see unless I use a game of mirrors. In my situation, some dermmatch would get me into "normal head of hair" territory... Funny how you easily get greedy after your hair situation already improved tenfolds with 4000 grafts.
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by That Guy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:46 am

So I started the dermarollin'...a few weeks back. The end of May-ish. Not expecting anything.

But it does actually appear to be working, especially on the left side. There is definitely hair growing that wasn't before. It basically looks like how, you know when hair has been waxed away, and it's beginning to grow back? Kinda like that. I can especially notice it best after a shower.

Not too excited just yet, because I've heard before that some people see those kinds of results, but the hair never grows to full length, so I guess it will be some weeks yet before I'll know.

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Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:24 am

That Guy wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:46 am
So I started the dermarollin'...a few weeks back. The end of May-ish. Not expecting anything.

But it does actually appear to be working, especially on the left side. There is definitely hair growing that wasn't before. It basically looks like how, you know when hair has been waxed away, and it's beginning to grow back? Kinda like that. I can especially notice it best after a shower.

Not too excited just yet, because I've heard before that some people see those kinds of results, but the hair never grows to full length, so I guess it will be some weeks yet before I'll know.
That's great news! Especially coming from you.

How often do you dermaroller? What is the length of your roller? How hard and how long do you roll?

At the moment I do it once a week with a 1.5mm dermaroller for about a couple of minutes until my scalp turns red and there are a few spots of blood here and there. I didn't want to go too hard the first time because I was afraid the redness would stay until the next day, but it went away pretty fast actually (less than an hour).
Hair transplants: 2000 graft (May 2014) and 2024 graft (January 2018) FUE's with Dr. De Reys for front and mid-scalp.

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