Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Discuss proven and experimental available hair loss solutions: minoxidil, finasteride, concealers, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
rclark
Hair Loss Guru
Hair Loss Guru
Posts: 1004
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 1079
Norwood: NW4
Regimen: Finasteride 1 mg daily, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » 4 months ago

That Guy wrote:
4 months ago
It says he takes finasteride and minoxidil.

Even then, I've never seen someone get actual hair line regrowth like that on just finasteride and minoxidil.

Also, in the dhurat study the men only took minoxidil and she had done a follow-up study using only patients who previous treatments didn't work for.

The fishy thing to me is the time frame. This guy goes from having completely bald temples to them nearly full-grown back in barely four months time?
You're right. They didn't take any anti androgens, they would be excluded.

Some of the men were twenty years old in this experiment. And for some responders, Minoxidil will temporarily regrow
hair back, especially on men who just started balding.

At one time I was the poster child for Minoxidil. When I was 20, it regrew my entire hair line, believe
it or not.

Now I'm the poster child for "this is what happens when you don't take Finasteride in your twenties".

User avatar
That Guy
Hair Loss Expert
Hair Loss Expert
Posts: 769
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 1837
Norwood: NW2.5

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by That Guy » 4 months ago

rclark wrote:
4 months ago
You're right. They didn't take any anti androgens, they would be excluded.

Some of the men were twenty years old in this experiment. And for some responders, Minoxidil will temporarily regrow
hair back, especially on men who just started balding.

At one time I was the poster child for Minoxidil. When I was 20, it regrew my entire hair line, believe
it or not.

Now I'm the poster child for "this is what happens when you don't take Finasteride in your twenties".
The cope over on HairLossTalk is hysterical.

"Three months isn't long enough! You have to keep going!"

Yeah no, none of that new hair grew to any noteworthy length, eight months later.

You expect me to believe after 3 months of following this shit that not one hair became terminal means that if i just kept going a few more months, I'd be like a fullhead by now? Come on. In any of the scientific studies on it, and anecdotes, 3-4 months was when the results were clearly noticeable.

It's just cope. 6 months turns into you gotta give it 8, which becomes a year, and then eventually these people are gone and there are no photos at all.

User avatar
rclark
Hair Loss Guru
Hair Loss Guru
Posts: 1004
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 1079
Norwood: NW4
Regimen: Finasteride 1 mg daily, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » 4 months ago

That Guy wrote:
4 months ago
The cope over on HairLossTalk is hysterical.

"Three months isn't long enough! You have to keep going!"

Yeah no, none of that new hair grew to any noteworthy length, eight months later.

You expect me to believe after 3 months of following this shit that not one hair became terminal means that if i just kept going a few more months, I'd be like a fullhead by now? Come on. In any of the scientific studies on it, and anecdotes, 3-4 months was when the results were clearly noticeable.

It's just cope. 6 months turns into you gotta give it 8, which becomes a year, and then eventually these people are gone and there are no photos at all.
It's the truth.

A guy who is twenty is probably going to get better results than a fifty year old guy. That's with anything (lifting weights, learning
new things, etc).

They get this false sense of hope, like I did with Minoxidil. I thought it would save my hair, and I wish I used an anti androgen
in my early thirties.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 4 months ago

@That Guy, good to see that you're playing the role I played back in 2013 once we got like 4 months into the first time a big dermarolling community trial was undertaken.

I was like "so, where are the results? Post before/afters please!" Then of course I got swarmed and accused of being negative, and sometimes deserving my baldness.

It's always nice to see how those people speaking about keeping a positive atmosphere throw that out of the window once someone express a little bit of skepticism.

I tried dermarolling twice now, the first time for 4 months, the second time for 7 months, it didn't work, just like it won't work for like 90% of people out there. It's unfortunate but that's just how it is. They better slow down that hype train before too many newbies get hurt by a false hope. I sure know that there are few things in life that hurt people more than that.

User avatar
Rudiger
Hair Loss Expert
Hair Loss Expert
Posts: 897
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 2436
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: Finasteride, Dutasteride, minoxidil, Biotin, Dermarolling, Nizoral

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Rudiger » 4 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
I tried dermarolling twice now, the first time for 4 months, the second time for 7 months, it didn't work, just like it won't work for like 90% of people out there. It's unfortunate but that's just how it is. They better slow down that hype train before too many newbies get hurt by a false hope. I sure know that there are few things in life that hurt people more than that.
Yes this is what I've always maintained and I like that you acknowledge this- it looks highly likely that this rarely makes a difference for 90% of people. Even for those 10% the majority might end up with some baby hairs along the hair line, I mean every little helps, in conjunction with other treatments it could spring in to life, but realistically this will make no difference to how your hair is viewed cosmetically. I highly doubt even your barber would notice, never mind the general populus or females.

My own density has improved since derma rolling, but I've responded very well to minoxidil, finasteride and dutasteride, so it's more likely to work for me. Fred however you had aggressive hair loss at such an early age, so while you may as well give it a go as it's very cheap, I'd be shocked if wounding of all things is what regrew noticeable hair for you.

Plus your early hair loss makes you an insecure and insane baldite so your perception is warped, just your daily reminder and I hope I tediously linked it in to my post.

P.S. Ectomorph.
~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 4 months ago

On HairlossTalk, you see the usual drama that happens in the dermarolling threads when the hype goes off the rails:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/t ... st-1744314

One of the staunchest defenders of dermarolling just left and deleted all his posts. Funny, the people who should be the most resilient to criticism since they really believe in this method are often the first ones to give up and bail when people start asking questions. It's their pet theory, they think they've made it and anyone who questions them is a troll who deserves to go bald.

What one should remember here is that such heated discussions about whether a treatment works or not would never happen for minoxidil, finasteride or hair transplants. It's common knowledge that they work and there are clear before/after pictures all over the internet.

With dermarolling on the other hand, it's always the same old shit which happens in cycles, in a couple of months, this thread will sink into oblivion, then in a few years, some bozo is going to post the results he had from minoxidil, finasteride and dermarolling and the newbies will be like "wow, no way it's the minoxidil and finasteride! Let's all roll guys!"

User avatar
That Guy
Hair Loss Expert
Hair Loss Expert
Posts: 769
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 1837
Norwood: NW2.5

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by That Guy » 4 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
some bozo is going to post the results he had from minoxidil, finasteride and dermarolling and the newbies will be like "wow, no way it's the minoxidil and finasteride! Let's all roll guys!"
That's definitely the downside to starting all the treatments at once. You can never be certain what gains you've made can be attributed to what. Start finasteride and minoxidil at the same time, see results...now...which one isn't actually working? Or are they both working?

You could be spending money on something that's actually doing shit, and the risk is too high to bother troubleshooting.

User avatar
rclark
Hair Loss Guru
Hair Loss Guru
Posts: 1004
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 1079
Norwood: NW4
Regimen: Finasteride 1 mg daily, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by rclark » 3 months ago

That's very true.

Dermarolling is a cheap alternative. It probably doesn't do much.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

So since it's now been 6 months of dermarolling and I don't see any significant results (any hair that has grown back is nearly colorless and disappears when exposed to daylight), I've decided to stop the experiment here.

Another reason is that my third and last FUE is scheduled in 1.5 month and I don't want to get into it with damaged skin or something, I don't know, maybe it could have an influence. I might resume dermarolling at a point but certainly not during the growth phase of my hair transplant.

So yeah, it's a bit disappointing to say the least, of course, the people at tressless and HairlossTalk will scoff and tell me I should have at least given it a year but come on now, any effective treatment will produce at least some visible results after 4 months, even the latest Trinov before/after pictures showed some growth. Here I see nothing.

Of course it might still be useful for maintenance, it's hard to know, but then again, some people even lost ground while dermarolling. What pisses me off the most about this whole experiment (not the first of course) is that all the bozos who are defending dermarolling tooth and nail will never come back once they don't get the results they had hoped for. They just desert the forums, never to be seen again.

Very few people will publicly admit that they were wrong. Something I did back in 2012 after my "natural" treatments had successfully made me bald. There are few things in life more painful than admitting that you were wrong, the more stubborn you were, the longer the time you spent in denial, the harder it is to come back from it.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... did=109434
ohlsson wrote:yeah i know. Do you remember Fred the Belgian? he was on the other forum mostly. He refused to use treatment and instead was using hundreds of natural supplements which he said was regrowing his hair. he also basically called everyone who was using treatents as being "stupid' everyone warned him that he would lose hair but he refused to believe it. He dissapears from the forum, and around one year later he comes back on the forums, completely bald, and apologizing for his arrogance.

74775446
Hair Loss Newbie
Hair Loss Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 months ago
Reputation: 14
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: Dermapen and minoxidil

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by 74775446 » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
On HairlossTalk, you see the usual drama that happens in the dermarolling threads when the hype goes off the rails:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/t ... st-1744314

One of the staunchest defenders of dermarolling just left and deleted all his posts. Funny, the people who should be the most resilient to criticism since they really believe in this method are often the first ones to give up and bail when people start asking questions. It's their pet theory, they think they've made it and anyone who questions them is a troll who deserves to go bald.

What one should remember here is that such heated discussions about whether a treatment works or not would never happen for minoxidil, finasteride or hair transplants. It's common knowledge that they work and there are clear before/after pictures all over the internet.

With dermarolling on the other hand, it's always the same old shit which happens in cycles, in a couple of months, this thread will sink into oblivion, then in a few years, some bozo is going to post the results he had from minoxidil, finasteride and dermarolling and the newbies will be like "wow, no way it's the minoxidil and finasteride! Let's all roll guys!"
His departure had nothing to do with the efficacy of dermarolling. Thread is back on track.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

74775446 wrote:
3 months ago
His departure had nothing to do with the efficacy of dermarolling. Thread is back on track.
What was the reason then? It was not because people criticized his defense of dermarolling and he got fed up with it? It's usually the explanation in those cases.

74775446
Hair Loss Newbie
Hair Loss Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 months ago
Reputation: 14
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: Dermapen and minoxidil

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by 74775446 » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
3 months ago
What was the reason then? It was not because people criticized his defense of dermarolling and he got fed up with it? It's usually the explanation in those cases.
It was odd - he just lost the plot. I get at least 10 messages a day asking what pen I use, how I use it, how many needles etc so made literally 1 post suggesting that I set up a site as a "one stop shop" for anyone who wants to get started using the exact same pen I do. I know as soon as money is mentioned people assume "scam" but this guy lost it on a different level.

I wasn't trying to sell to anyone in the thread and it was just an idea that would make my life easier and I thought it would be of help to anyone else who wanted to copy exactly what I did.

Anyway, there is no website and I would never, ever promote to guys on forums like this, as I'm more interested in learning from what we find.

I wasn't expecting everyone to say "yeah, man, great idea - go got it!" but his implosion was bizarre as he'd been an active and helpful member until I made that single post from the several hundred I've made. I'm sure you know better than I do how weird people can be on these sites, especially when money is mentioned.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

74775446 wrote:
3 months ago
It was odd - he just lost the plot. I get at least 10 messages a day asking what pen I use, how I use it, how many needles etc so made literally 1 post suggesting that I set up a site as a "one stop shop" for anyone who wants to get started using the exact same pen I do. I know as soon as money is mentioned people assume "scam" but this guy lost it on a different level.

I wasn't trying to sell to anyone in the thread and it was just an idea that would make my life easier and I thought it would be of help to anyone else who wanted to copy exactly what I did.

Anyway, there is no website and I would never, ever promote to guys on forums like this, as I'm more interested in learning from what we find.

I wasn't expecting everyone to say "yeah, man, great idea - go got it!" but his implosion was bizarre as he'd been an active and helpful member until I made that single post from the several hundred I've made. I'm sure you know better than I do how weird people can be on these sites, especially when money is mentioned.
I totally get it man, that's why I was honest from the start with this website and told people that yes, I was an evil capitalist so of course I would put Google Ads, a donate button and more recently subscribed to the Amazon Affiliate program (what you were criticized for), there are like 5 Amazon links on this whole forum so I don't think I'm going to make much off that, and I'm going to be paid in gift cards anyway :p.

For the sake of transparency, I made around 100€ in 6 months with that, and this website costed around 30€. But still, there is a minority of people who will tell you that if you're a truly good-hearted person who wants to help people and build a community, you should not monetize it at all. And I believe that's grotesque.

I understand why some people get pissed at you for having had the (brilliant) idea to use an affiliate link. It's partly misplaced resentement, especially if they think you're going to make a lot of money (probably not though), but let's not forget that it's also partly because you're addressing the hair loss community, and the longer we've been in it, the more suspicious we will be about such practices.

This is the same reason we're suspicious of Somebody's method, he's probably genuine, but the fact that his contribution came with a monetized YouTube channel and a $9.99 e-book doesn't help the perception that it might all be a marketing ploy. And add on top of that that dermarolling's effectiveness is still being discussed without a definitive answer despite the fact that there have been community trials on BaldTruthTalk, stopaga and now HairlossTalk (for the second time) and tressless, and we have our current situation.

I'm still really hoping that it could do wonders for maintenance, especially for people who caught their hair loss early but we have to remember that the evidence is still not in. That's one thing we have discussed in this thread, the majority people who have had amazing results with dermarolling, we quite young, caught their (sometimes aggressive) hair loss early and also jumped on minoxidil and finasteride. It's not an unusual reaction to treatment without dermarolling in that case.

As Spencer Kobren from The Bald Truth would say, take everything you read on hair loss forums (including this one) with a grain of salt. Always remember that the dermarolling thread on Spencer's forum just ended up dying out like 4 years ago, same as the one on stopaga even though the community is much smaller:

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/1 ... nity-Trial

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1541
Joined: 10 months ago
Reputation: 3357
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: - 5% Minoxidil once a day and Adenosin shampoo
- Discontinued due to lack of results: Stemoxydine and dermarolling
Location: Belgium
Age: 29
Contact:

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

OK, I have to intervene again here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/t ... st-1745623

Hairo on HairlossTalk just posted those results:

Image

To put it simply:

1. It's not the same lightning (the after one is darker and has way more forgiving lightning)
2. It's not the same angle, the tilting of the head can give this impression that the bald area is now smaller, it's a trick that was also used in the Dhurat study
3. The hair is much longer on the right, basically, the guy didn't get a hair cut for 2 months
4. The guy is using minoxidil
5. The guy is using rosemary oil, which has antiandrogen proprieties (so sometimes the same side-effects as finasteride)
6. 2 months is way too short a period to produce any significant changes in the state of your hair, that's true for minoxidil and finasteride

Bonus point: 8 likes and no dislike at all for this?

At least guy admits that the lightning is a little dodgy but it's not the only problem with those "results". Now it might be slowing down his hair loss, but only time will tell.

@74775446, I'm sorry to have to point out the obvious here, but there's almost nothing up there, just a guy posting a picture with longer hair.

74775446
Hair Loss Newbie
Hair Loss Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: 4 months ago
Reputation: 14
Norwood: NW2.5
Regimen: Dermapen and minoxidil

Re: Dermarolling and using current treatments to enhance regrowth

Post by 74775446 » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
3 months ago
OK, I have to intervene again here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/t ... st-1745623

Hairo on HairlossTalk just posted those results:

Image

To put it simply:

1. It's not the same lightning (the after one is darker and has way more forgiving lightning)
2. It's not the same angle, the tilting of the head can give this impression that the bald area is now smaller, it's a trick that was also used in the Dhurat study
3. The hair is much longer on the right, basically, the guy didn't get a hair cut for 2 months
4. The guy is using minoxidil
5. The guy is using rosemary oil, which has antiandrogen proprieties (so sometimes the same side-effects as finasteride)
6. 2 months is way too short a period to produce any significant changes in the state of your hair, that's true for minoxidil and finasteride

Bonus point: 8 likes and no dislike at all for this?

At least guy admits that the lightning is a little dodgy but it's not the only problem with those "results". Now it might be slowing down his hair loss, but only time will tell.

@74775446, I'm sorry to have to point out the obvious here, but there's almost nothing up there, just a guy posting a picture with longer hair.
There is quite clearly an improvement between those photos. There is no point in debating a picture we can see as well as each other but I would be willing to bet that if you showed this picture to 1,000 people and pointed out to them what you've pointed out to me, they'd still think there was a huge improvement.

My results suggest that 2 months isn't too long at all. I shed initially but after 2 months there was a big improvement from baseline.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest