Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Discuss proven and experimental available hair loss solutions: minoxidil, finasteride, concealers, etc.
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 3 weeks ago

I think @Doc is right about this one.

At my age, the Dustasteride is going to last even longer than four days (half life).

Starting to think I made a mistake, because I'm not young anymore. Maybe I should
switch to Finasteride.
Last edited by rclark 3 weeks ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by Doc » 3 weeks ago

@rclark

Hey. I've always been curious about topical Progesterone (pre transplant) but I decided not to go down this route primarily due a concern with the side effects but also limited effectiveness. I know it's topical but feminine side effects do happen, did you experience any?

It sounds like you're giving regrowth a really good shot without attempting anything which is outright dangerous (the transgender drugs). I think you'll definitely be able to regrow the crown despite your age. Age actually can work in your favour, some of the best respondents on finasteride were older men with slower patterns. The crown is one of the easiest areas to regrow too unless there is aggressive loss or substantial miniaturisation which I don't think applies to you.

I never meant don't try Dutasteride. I think it's a worthwhile upgrade if it provides benefit (read real cosmetic improvement) or allows maintenance which wasn't achieved on Finasteride. In your case, you need to get some actual improvement because you were maintaining on Finasteride anyway. I would put Dutasteride as a drug on the boundary of safe and unsafe – so anyone who needs it should give it a 6 month run for sure. Remember it's approved for BPH in the world and also for androgenetic alopecia in Japan while being prescribed off label for androgenetic alopecia elsewhere. So it's safe enough. The reason I put it on the boundary of safe/unsafe is because in some people that line can be crossed and it's easier than say on Finasteride. It's not just the unknown long term effect of lack of type 1 DHT which is present in the brain but also issues of lower sperm count and sperm motility. Not a big deal since you're already a dad and older but in someone else predisposed to such problems, it could tip them over into trouble. Once you're past 35-40 at the latest and kids are no longer a problem, this is an irrelevant point as long as the sexual function otherwise is good. The bigger concern is the larger drop in DHT, the neurones are good at adapting but it can't always depending on someone's physiology. If all your remaining androgens (read T), progestins and glucocorticoids are in check it should be okay – they all depend on 5 alpha reductase – the enzyme you're inhibiting. For Finasteride we have a natural model (pseudohermaphrodites) or very close to it (read up on isoenzymes) and they have normal functioning. But for Dutasteride it's more unknown. If other chemicals and neurotransmitters are hit and miss or the person is prone to depression/anxiety, they will experience this getting worse. I probably wouldn't recommend this drug for someone obese/chronic depression/erection issues/gynae/wanting to start a family in general.

That said, I would recommend healthy people to try it for 6 months and see how they respond and also listen to their body. It should be okay. 99% maintained their hair and temporary side effects were in a few percent iirc. Yep, Dutasteride takes around 10 weeks to eliminate from the body but I read a case where it took 6 months for the DHT to return to normal as it takes a while for the enzyme to replenish it's numbers and function at 100%. The hair count gains can be superior to Finasteride but Finasteride tends to catch up in about a year. The difference is only around a 50 hairs in an inch area iirc which is nothing. The 2k grafts I had is 4000 hairs minimum for example of perfect quality. Where dutasteride can trump finasteride is in reversing miniaturisation so for diffuse thinners or crown baldies it's a great tool with Minoxidil.

The hair line is going to be very difficult since it's been dead a while and it's always harder to grow anyway being very DHT sensitive. I've seen finasteride/dutasteride only regrow hairlines (to a good a standard) only a few times. I would add in castor oil (weak on its own obviously) because it is reported to mimic PGE2 which helps follicles be healthier and grow faster/terminal. I can say I was cutting my hair easily every 4 weeks but when I started this I felt 3 weeks was better. I heard peppermint oil also has a similar benefit. Both these are just useful additions but entirely useless on their own. However, they can be the push you need for weak ass hairs on their way out.

Dermarolling is the real deal. While no one knows exactly how much or how to do it, it's a very useful tool and I view it as a “factory reset” for the scalp. That is to decrease all the pathways/mediators activated by hair loss (started by dht) and increase the good guys such as blood flow, WNT and VEGF etc. If you're on a DHT inhibitor these bad pathways will be minimal anyway with limited to none calcification/fibrosis provided you got in there early. I don't use the stamp because it doesn't allow me to manipulate the scalp with different angles unlike the manual one. I know the studies said 1.5mm but I found 3mm to be better for me in terms of promoting all this. I can withstand the pain but sometimes inject my scalp with topical lidocaine if required (don't try the latter yourself due to risk of allergies and how to inject correctly). Because my hair is naturally thick too, I have to wet it and get my girlfriend to part in various ways or I'll pull out a lot of hairs. I only do it a few times a year for a “factory reset” but spend like 2 hours each time. No heavy bleeding, just pinprick points and redness.

finasteride and Dutasteride are good enough, if you're maintaining the first few years, it should last indefinitely according to the studies. Some surgeons were promoting that there is a cumulative negative effect (the 10% of DHT at the follicles has an effect eventually) – this is bollocks. It's wishful thinking and desires for the hair to deteriorate so they get more work and money. There is no evidence for this, it's an insignificant amount of DHT which doesn't cause problems while being removed from the follicle too. They shouldn't be saying this as a rule but I get their fear and it's all due to losing returning customers. First they loved finasteride because more people had transplants as a result of finasteride (allows full head combo and promotes their work better) where as those who lost it all were less likely to seek them due to less returns. But eventually they noticed that finasteride was maintaining too good with hair counts and hair quality so started engaging in throwing a few smoke grenades “what ifs/perhaps/maybe it can happen” just for cash. I actually know surgeons that are frustrated due to finasteride.

To summarise, go for it, chop and change as necessary every few months so you're only on treatment that works. I would also recommend a transplant eventually if the hair line bothers you and little regrowth there. Keep dandruff and oily skin to a minimum (good shampoo) if you have this issue as it contributes to worsening of androgenetic alopecia. I've never had this problem but I remember reading that those with aggressive patterns tend to have this problem and if I look at people I know, I think it's true.
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 3 weeks ago

Doc wrote:
3 weeks ago
@rclark

Hey. I've always been curious about topical Progesterone (pre transplant) but I decided not to go down this route primarily due a concern with the side effects but also limited effectiveness. I know it's topical but feminine side effects do happen, did you experience any?
Everything I take is topical, and that includes both Finasteride and Progesterone. The main reason I never took oral Finasteride was because of possible side effects.

Topical Finasteride doesn't seem to go systemic, and it's not that far below oral in terms of fighting hair loss. It's around seventy percent, versus seventy five percent when the dosage is around one milligram, or .1% topical (which is the same doseage).

I still have lots of facial hair, a low voice (baritone), and am somewhat muscular. My beard growth is fast, and it is getting denser with age. So for that reason, I would have to say I don't have feminine side effects from two percent Progesterone.

The half life of Dustasteride does concern me. This is the first and only oral medication that I have taken on a regular basis for hair loss. Since I started a week or two ago, it's too soon to tell. A person my age the half life of Dustasteride is ten days, which is much higher than oral Finasteride (six to eight hours, versus 120 to 300 hours depending on a man's age).

That said, both Dustasteride and Finasteride have been shown to cause diabetes in elderly men. In this case, we are talking about men in their sixties, For that reason I am lifting weights, and I am working out a lot more than I used to.
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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by pjhair » 1 week ago

rclark wrote:
3 weeks ago
Everything I take is topical, and that includes both Finasteride and Progesterone. The main reason I never took oral Finasteride was because of possible side effects.
Where do you get the topcal finasteride and progesterone from?

@Doc do you have any recommendation for people who get reflex hyperandrogenicity on finasteride? I lost a lot of density the last time I tried finasteride so i am hesitant to try propecia. Will completely eliminating dht with meds like dutasteride be helpful?

I recently visited India and a couple of my relatives commented that my hair, though still thick, are not as thick as they seemed last year. I have been experiencing significant shedding from last July-August. I get shedding from time to time but it seems to be the first time when their is visible loss of hair(except the time when I tried finasteride).
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
Where do you get the topcal finasteride and progesterone from?

@Doc do you have any recommendation for people who get reflex hyperandrogenicity on finasteride? I lost a lot of density the last time I tried finasteride so i am hesitant to try propecia. Will completely eliminating dht with meds like dutasteride be helpful?

I recently visited India and a couple of my relatives commented that my hair, though still thick, are not as thick as they seemed last year. I have been experiencing significant shedding from last July-August. I get shedding from time to time but it seems to be the first time when their is visible loss of hair(except the time when I tried finasteride).
I get it from APS pharmacy. Hairregrowthmd went out of business, but they allowed me to use their doctors for new scripts.
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 6 days ago

pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
Where do you get the topcal finasteride and progesterone from?

@Doc do you have any recommendation for people who get reflex hyperandrogenicity on finasteride? I lost a lot of density the last time I tried finasteride so i am hesitant to try propecia. Will completely eliminating dht with meds like dutasteride be helpful?

I recently visited India and a couple of my relatives commented that my hair, though still thick, are not as thick as they seemed last year. I have been experiencing significant shedding from last July-August. I get shedding from time to time but it seems to be the first time when their is visible loss of hair(except the time when I tried finasteride).
My doctor told me 90 days is the average wait time to see results.

You should really look at the half life of Dustasteride. It's really long.

I am taking it every other day.

In my opinion, i don't think men my age (50) should take it.
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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by pjhair » 6 days ago

rclark wrote:
6 days ago
In my opinion, i don't think men my age (50) should take it.
Why? Are you experiencing any side effects? Also, how do you order topcal finasteride and progesterone on APS pharmacy? I went to their website and they don't have it listed. Do you ask them to make the topicals and then ship it to you? If so, what's the process of requesting it?
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 6 days ago

pjhair wrote:
6 days ago
Why? Are you experiencing any side effects? Also, how do you order topcal finasteride and progesterone on APS pharmacy? I went to their website and they don't have it listed. Do you ask them to make the topicals and then ship it to you? If so, what's the process of requesting it?
I feel dizzy on it. My father and mother's father both had type 2 diabetes. My father had a much higher BMI
than I did at my age though.

There seems to be a correlation between Finasteride/Dustasteride and diabetes. Keep in mind this was done
on older men, and just being male increases diabetic risk as well.

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l1204

Unfortunately people of Indian and Asian heritage are at a higher risk, because they have a higher percentage
of body fat between their organs.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 112210.htm

This study was done on Indians who had some Asian genetics, which might not apply to you, of course.
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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by kj6723 » 6 days ago

pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
I recently visited India and a couple of my relatives commented that my hair, though still thick, are not as thick as they seemed last year.
Your family members bald shamed you?

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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by pjhair » 6 days ago

kj6723 wrote:
6 days ago
Your family members bald shamed you?
Not really. One of my cousins and nephew are very conscious about hair. One of them is even on minoxidil and finasteride. We were just discussing our hair situation. My cousin and nephew both commented that my hair doesn't look as thick as last year. I have been having trouble styling my hair lately as well.

I have been shedding a lot of hair lately. I get hyperandrogenicity on finasteride so scared to try it. I am at a loss as to what I can do it to stop the progression of hair loss. I was wondering whether completely eliminating dht by using dutasteride will help. I am scared of dutasteride though because I already got adverse reaction on finasteride. I have heard that individuals who experience side effects on finasteride, experience even worse side effects on dutasteride.

Added in 13 minutes 58 seconds:
rclark wrote:
6 days ago
I feel dizzy on it. My father and mother's father both had type 2 diabetes. My father had a much higher BMI
than I did at my age though.

There seems to be a correlation between Finasteride/Dustasteride and diabetes. Keep in mind this was done
on older men, and just being male increases diabetic risk as well.

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l1204

Unfortunately people of Indian and Asian heritage are at a higher risk, because they have a higher percentage
of body fat between their organs.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 112210.htm

This study was done on Indians who had some Asian genetics, which might not apply to you, of course.
Yes, Diabetes is a very common disease in India. Both of my uncles have it. My father doesn't have it though despite having the same genetics. He has always been more physically active than my uncles and more conscious about his diet. My uncles loved to eat a lot but had a very sedentary life style. They would never even go on a walk. My father went to jogging every day. I too am very physically active and very careful with what I eat.

Unknowingly, I was doing intermittent fasting for the past 20 years. Against everyone's advise, I never ate breakfast as I didn't get hungry in the morning and didn't even want to look at food. I would eat my first meal anywhere l between 12 to 3 pm. Now a days some times I eat my first meal as late as 7 pm. My genetics do put me at a higher risk of diabetes but if I go by my father, I doubt I will ever get it because of my physical activity and diet.
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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 4 days ago

Diabetes increases with age. This is especially true in the forties and over, and probably because
obesity increases.

You really should eat breakfast. The reason is, a person's metabolism goes down when they don't
eat frequently enough. It's not the other way around.

After taking Dustasteride for a month, I am getting hair on my crown area (not a big improvement,
but some).

I have been taking it every day for the most part.

@Exodus , you might want to try Dustasteride. I get mine at CVS, and all I
did is go on medicalwellnesscenter. You can get a 270 day supply of Dustasteride for 40.00.

It's generic. I got mine at CVS for seven dollars, and it was a ninety day supply.

If they deny you a prescription (medicalwellnesscenter), you get a full refund.

I don't use their topical Minoxidil in the Winter, because it turns into water. But I would
recommend regular 0.5 strength Dustasteride.
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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by Pat » 4 days ago

Doc wrote:
1 month ago
Once every few months I needle 3 mm on my head (well I get my girlfriend to do it) and add castor oil. I feel this is an effective maintenance tool along with finasteride and it grew a little even in my temple peaks.
The parenthesis served no purpose other than bragging.

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Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by Rudiger » 4 days ago

Once every day I jerk my dick (well I get my girlfriend to do it, using her vagina)
me me me me I'm the omniscient and compassionate Rudiger

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rclark
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Regimen: Dustasteride 0.5 milligrams daily, Finasteride 1mg topical, Progesterone 2% (22mg daily), Minoxidil 15% hair growth only).
Using 1.5 mm needle on all bald/balding areas weekly.

Re: Dutasteride, loading phase or nah?

Post by rclark » 2 days ago

Taking Dustasteride daily at night. It's been over a month now. The side effects are no longer happening. ( dizzyness).

This is probably the best thing I did for my hair. I honestly believe I will have better hair density in my
fifties than my fourties.

I no longer think vertex hair regrowth is impossible at my age.

Added in 12 hours 15 minutes 34 seconds:
Pat wrote:
4 days ago
The parenthesis served no purpose other than bragging.
I don't even believe the needle size. That's twice the maximum size that is recommended.
Think happy thoughts.

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