Making sense of the current political climate

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Hairblues
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Admin wrote:
1 week ago
Sometimes rules need to be broken, and the law disregarded.

He was anointed by reality, things have played out this way quite naturally because the good people of this world made sure the balance got tilted in his favor.

Again, I don't believe it will ever happen, but let's say he gets impeached. What do you think happens after? Trump went over this with his usual provocative style.

No the other side won't just roll over like a puppy and be like "well that's just how it is", especially in the manner the game has been played (yes, that again :p) so far.

You can say it's wrong and they should refrain from revolting, but again, that's how it would play out naturally, and you don't need to put God into that equation to realize it.

They should have gone at it your way, they should have waited a little and try to beat him in the upcoming election. But they already know that one's lost so, they'll try to cheat. If they win by cheating, the opposition will just flip the game board.

I think your speculating a lot based on your own hopes and agenda.

And to me I’m trying to keep it simple.

For so long now people (like yourself) have been defending him as being innocent of any accusation and he’s being unjustly persecuted.

Turns out he’s not and you NOW acknowledge this.

Only now, it doesn’t matter to you or people like yourself what he does that’s impeachable, or illegal, or against the constitution, or even unAmerican, because he has some higher causes in good vs evil i the world against the radical left?

Uhm, okay.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by yettee » 1 week ago

Admin wrote:
1 week ago
Again, I don't believe it will ever happen, but let's say he gets impeached.
Of course I'm on @Hairblues' side on all this, but don't see much point in the conversation about it (though of course like all of us sometimes I can't help myself :D ) , all minds are clearly made up here and let's see what happens. But I wanted to chime in on something. I think there might be some confusion with the terms. If Trump gets "impeached", it just means that he's being brought up on charges by the House. This is actually pretty likely (but not certain) in this situation. If that happens, then the Senate votes on whether or not to convict. But if the Senate votes not to convict, which at this point it looks like they almost definitely would, Trump would still be impeached. Like Clinton back in the day.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Rudiger » 1 week ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 week ago
I think your speculating a lot based on your own hopes and agenda.

And to me I’m trying to keep it simple.

For so long now people (like yourself) have been defending him as being innocent of any accusation and he’s being unjustly persecuted.

Turns out he’s not and you NOW acknowledge this.

Only now, it doesn’t matter to you or people like yourself what he does that’s impeachable, or illegal, or against the constitution, or even unAmerican, because he has some higher causes in good vs evil i the world against the radical left?

Uhm, okay.
I don't actually know what's happened today/yesterday that indefinitely condemns him but no, you can't play that game. I don't know whether Fred said Trump is infinitely innocent (I know I wouldn't claim this) but you can't say "now that there's proof of his corruption I was right all along!" No, you were wrong until the "proof" came out.

Based on what knowledge I have of Trump right now I don't think he's a particularly corrupt politician, if it turns out tomorrow that he's murdered his rivals or something then that obviously changes my opinion based on new evidence. I still won't feel stupid for assuming anything that wasn't based on facts at that time.

If he did make demands for anything with Ukraine then fine, he's done exactly what Biden has done, I don't know the details as yet but what Biden done couldn't possibly be any better than what Trump has apparently done, and he bragged about it on camera after. Trump said a few times "I didn't say any such demands, but even if I did, there would be nothing wrong with that" and I'd have to look more closely at what happened, but while I wouldn't think there is "nothing" wrong with it, at all, do I think he shouldn't be a president over it? No that's fucking insane.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 week ago
I don't actually know what's happened today/yesterday that indefinitely condemns him but no, you can't play that game. I don't know whether Fred said Trump is infinitely innocent (I know I wouldn't claim this) but you can't say "now that there's proof of his corruption I was right all along!" No, you were wrong until the "proof" came out.

Based on what knowledge I have of Trump right now I don't think he's a particularly corrupt politician, if it turns out tomorrow that he's murdered his rivals or something then that obviously changes my opinion based on new evidence. I still won't feel stupid for assuming anything that wasn't based on facts at that time.

If he did make demands for anything with Ukraine then fine, he's done exactly what Biden has done, I don't know the details as yet but what Biden done couldn't possibly be any better than what Trump has apparently done, and he bragged about it on camera after. Trump said a few times "I didn't say any such demands, but even if I did, there would be nothing wrong with that" and I'd have to look more closely at what happened, but while I wouldn't think there is "nothing" wrong with it, at all, do I think he shouldn't be a president over it? No that's fucking insane.
Your post doesn’t sound well informed (you admittedly say you don’t know the details yet, and you don’t know what happened today.) so I’m not going to address it other than to say I’m not ‘playing a game’, I’m having a civil discussion with someone.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Rudiger » 1 week ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 week ago
Your post doesn’t sound well informed (you admittedly say you don’t know the details yet, and you don’t know what happened today.) so I’m not going to address it other than to say I’m not ‘playing a game’, I’m having a civil discussion with someone.
I would never say you're a person who intentionally misses the point, but either way, it's completely lost on you.

"Turns out he’s not and you NOW acknowledge this.

Only now, it doesn’t matter to you or people like yourself what he does that’s impeachable, or illegal, or against the constitution, or even unAmerican, because he has some higher causes in good vs evil in the world against the radical left?

Uhm, okay."

Civil discussion, uhm, okay.
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I'm embarrassed to have not realized this on such elegantly succinct terms.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 week ago
I would never say you're a person who intentionally misses the point, but either way, it's completely lost on you.

"Turns out he’s not and you NOW acknowledge this.

Only now, it doesn’t matter to you or people like yourself what he does that’s impeachable, or illegal, or against the constitution, or even unAmerican, because he has some higher causes in good vs evil i the world against the radical left?

Uhm, okay."

Civil discussion, uhm, okay.

I don’t think he has an issue since he ‘liked’ the comment but if @Admin feels or thinks I’m being uncivil to him than I apologize to him.

I actually re read this several times and I don’t see what’s uncivil in this post in context to the whole discussion.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

Trump's phone calls are awful, but in my personal opinion they are not much worse than putting children in cages, or letting Puerto Rico starve after the hurricane, etc.

His coverage right now, however, is terrible. The media is taking a huge shit on Trump. I wonder if some rich people have met behind the scenes and agreed to end Trump, possibly due to the trade war with China and his reluctance to bomb Iran.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
Trump's phone calls are awful, but in my personal opinion they are not much worse than putting children in cages, or letting Puerto Rico starve after the hurricane, etc.

His coverage tight now, however, is terrible. The media is taking a huge shit on Trump. I wonder if sovme rich people have met behind the scenes and agreed to end Trump, possibly due to the trade war with China and his reluctance to bomb Iran.
It’s not morally worse but when you look at the clauses of the constitution in question and you look at what constitutes impeachment from past situations and how they measure it, And you look at his transcripts and his on camera comments, as well as his recent tweets, its an easy route to a justifiable impeachment.

No one needs the media to guide them on this one.


All of that being said, I don’t think the senate would vote to take him down. If it were men in back rooms, the senate would be turning on him.

On another note;
Trump is underwater in battleground states of Arizona (his net approval is down 23 points since his presidency began), Colorado (down 16), Florida (down 23), Iowa (down 22), Michigan (down 18), New Hampshire (down 23), North Carolina (down 21), Pennsylvania (down 17) and Wisconsin (down 17), and you see what could amount to an electoral disaster in the making.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by pjhair » 1 week ago

Admin wrote:
1 week ago
Sometimes rules need to be broken, and the law disregarded.
I strongly disagree with this. Democratic societies have a moral obligation to follow the rules and laws that we have established. We shouldn't just stop following laws whenever it inconveniences us. Remember, the argument that it's OK to break laws for a grander purpose is also used by groups that we strongly disagree with such as ANTIFA,extreme right groups, terrorists, etc. All those groups have a different definition of what the grander purpose is. If we disagree with a law or rule, then we should change it after discussions/debates and then voting on it. That's how democracies work. Remember, our ultimate commitment is to the well being of society, not to an individual or political party.

As far as president Trump is concerned, If he really did commit an impeachable offense, then he should be impeached. As simple as that. Whether he committed an impeachable offense or not is a different issue. I don't have enough knowledge of law to determine that. People far more knowledge than me in law are debating it and are conducting an investigation. I trust them to make the right decision.

If president Trump does get impeached however, I will be really sad and disappointed. In my opinion, he has done a lot of good for the country. I really want him to win the next election.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

Wow, even Rod Dreher of all people is supporting the impeachment hearings.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... big-mouth/
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

Admin wrote:
1 week ago

Another guy with good hair density. I can't even watch/believe anything he says.

I don't even know him, and already I think he's full of shit. Do I even need
a reason?

You should watching people like Jackson Galaxy, not people who have
hair like Brad Pitt.

https://www.jacksongalaxy.com/

Added in 4 minutes 26 seconds:
pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
I strongly disagree with this. Democratic societies have a moral obligation to follow the rules and laws that we have established. We shouldn't just stop following laws whenever it inconveniences us. Remember, the argument that it's OK to break laws for a grander purpose is also used by groups that we strongly disagree with such as ANTIFA,extreme right groups, terrorists, etc. All those groups have a different definition of what the grander purpose is. If we disagree with a law or rule, then we should change it after discussions/debates and then voting on it. That's how democracies work. Remember, our ultimate commitment is to the well being of society, not to an individual or political party.

As far as president Trump is concerned, If he really did commit an impeachable offense, then he should be impeached. As simple as that. Whether he committed an impeachable offense or not is a different issue. I don't have enough knowledge of law to determine that. People far more knowledge than me in law are debating it and are conducting an investigation. I trust them to make the right decision.

If president Trump does get impeached however, I will be really sad and disappointed. In my opinion, he has done a lot of good for the country. I really want him to win the next election.
A lot of Republicans are starting to get on board with this. You should read some of his texts, there is some hint about money and other
items.

This is not like Russia, which turned out to be a complete sham. Ukraine is easy to prove, and Donald admitted to finding
dirt on his opponent.

This is Cris Tucker, a man who is admired by many conservatives (think @That Guy )

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -good-idea

Mitt Romney has said he supports impeachment. Romney is viewed as a moderate, and would actually have much more appeal
to Democrats than Trump. Romney supported Obamacare, and even had his own version Universal Health Care when he
ran for President. He has never changed his position, and always has been outspoken about it.

It's true that 95% of Democrats are on board with a Trump impeachment. Donald has gone so far to the right (pro life, anti
healthcare, anti LGBT rights (military)), as a result Democrats have always hated him. There's only 5% (might even be less now)
that don't believe he should be impeached. It's not just about 2016 either, it's about his far right wing policies.

Rick Perry just resigned his post, so it looks like Trump has two primary challengers.

If Trump didn't get involved in this Ukraine mess, he would have had a perfect chance of winning 2020. He really didn't need to
go down this road. I actually hate Biden, and can't stand him. Delaware is a huge mess, both economically and on other levels
as well. In addition it is one of the smallest states in the U.S.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
Wow, even Rod Dreher of all people is supporting the impeachment hearings.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... big-mouth/
That’s a good article.
Last edited by Hairblues 1 week ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

I don't like Trump but I see a lot of ways that he could win.

1) Don't underestimate the effectiveness of gerrymandering and voter suppression. Heck, can we even really trust automated vote counting machines?

2) The Democratic primary is all about positivity. There hasn't been a lot of negativity, and thus in my opinion the candidates are not being adequately challenged. I think that this is partly a response to 2016, some thought that HRC had lost because Sanders undermined her reputation, a belief that I reject.

3) Trump would lose of the election were held today but people change their minds all of the time. We've all seen 5 to 10 point vote swings before.

That said -- pop the champagne if 2020 is a bloodbath for the GOP.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
I don't like him but I see a lot of ways that he could win.

1) Don't underestimate the effectiveness of gerrymandering and voter suppression. Heck, can we even really trust automated vote counting machines?

2) The Democratic primary is all about positivity. There hasn't been a lot of negativity, and thus in my opinion the candidates are not being adequately challenged. I think that this is partly a response to 2016, some thought that HRC had lost because Sanders undermined her reputation, a belief that I reject.

3) Trump would lose of the election were held today but people change their minds all of the time. We've all seen 5 to 10 point vote swings before.

That said -- pop the champagne if 2020 is a bloodbath for the GOP.
The voting worked fine in 2018 and red seats were flipped to blue all over the country.

Not sure what you mean, but Warren Biden and Sanders (it will be one of these 3 unless some tragedy or miracle) have ALL gotten in the mud with Trump at various times over the years. They’ve been tested. And all did pretty well.
What’s he going to say? Pocahontas? Yeah we know. Sanders a socialist? We heard. Biden and his sketchy past? We know that as well.

Trumps approval ratings have never gained enough ground. Yes, he won with those lousy numbers but against a very polarizing and loathed candidate who had already fractured her own party (or rather the DNC had) and their was a calculated push for Bernie Bros to support Dr Stein . When you look at Stern’s polls in the states that trump flipped by a slim margin, it’s very telling that this made a significant difference.
granted, they may have just sat out as a protest and not voted Green and trump would have won regardless.
But my point is still that she couldn’t win over the angry Bernie supporters who felt he was robbed.
And lastly, she didn’t visit those swing states (which I doubt would have made much difference at that point) but all 3, Biden, sanders, and warren are much more (perceptionally) salt of the earth folks who can roll up their sleeves talk heart to heart to working people. Clinton was awful at that.

Trump needed to gain voters and expand his base, not maintain or lose any.

you are probably better at math and statistics then me I’m sure, but it doesn’t add up to me that he has a clear path. I think it’s his challengers to lose by a large margin. Of course it’s possible, but I don’t think likely.

Trump if you love him you love him. If you don’t love him, his schtick gets old. If you hate him you will stand in rain for 3 hours to vote him out.

I think senate will remain red.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

Hairblues wrote:
1 week ago
The voting worked fine in 2018 and red seats were flipped to blue all over the country.

Not sure what you mean, but Warren Biden and Sanders (it will be one of these 3 unless some tragedy or miracle) have ALL gotten in the mud with Trump at various times over the years. They’ve been tested. And all did pretty well.
What’s he going to say? Pocahontas? Yeah we know. Sanders a socialist? We heard. Biden and his sketchy past? We know that as well.

Trumps approval ratings have never gained enough ground. Yes, he won with those lousy numbers but against a very polarizing and loathed candidate who had already fractured her own party (or rather the DNC had) and their was a calculated push for Bernie Bros to support Dr Stein . When you look at Stern’s polls in the states that trump flipped by a slim margin, it’s very telling that this made a significant difference.
granted, they may have just sat out as a protest and not voted Green and trump would have won regardless.
But my point is still that she couldn’t win over the angry Bernie supporters who felt he was robbed.
And lastly, she didn’t visit those swing states (which I doubt would have made much difference at that point) but all 3, Biden, sanders, and warren are much more (perceptionally) salt of the earth folks who can roll up their sleeves talk heart to heart to working people. Clinton was awful at that.

Trump needed to gain voters and expand his base, not maintain or lose any.

you are probably better at math and statistics then me I’m sure, but it doesn’t add up to me that he has a clear path. I think it’s his challengers to lose by a large margin. Of course it’s possible, but I don’t think likely.

Trump if you love him you love him. If you don’t love him, his schtick gets old. If you hate him you will stand in rain for 3 hours to vote him out.

I think senate will remain red.
Great post.

By the way, though I know a lot of stats, fancy stats are irrelevant here, and your knowledge of American geography and demographics are better than mine.
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