Making sense of the current political climate

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

Trump is too busy helping out with hurricane Dorian. He is headed out to Alabama today.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by blackg » 1 week ago

rclark wrote:
1 week ago
Trump is too busy helping out with hurricane Dorian. He is headed out to Alabama today.
Did you see much of the opening weekend NFL?
The Patriots are looking fine (again).
Don't kneel because you feel

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 1 week ago

blackg wrote:
1 week ago
Did you see much of the opening weekend NFL?
The Patriots are looking fine (again).
They are definitely kicking ass. One inning they got thirty three points. They're unstoppable
at this point.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

During the recent Democratic debate, Sanders pointed out to Biden that America spends twice as much on health care (per capita) as any other country. Biden responded with "This is America !"

Ben Shapiro seems to be defending him, with a strange defense:
Ben Shapiro wrote:The fact is medical innovation happens here, if you want a surgery you're going to be able to get a surgery in the United States of America. In fact, health care outcomes in the United States are still pretty good when you remove all of the confounding factors. In fact if you take away car accident deaths and homicide and suicide from the national statistics, what you end up with is the United States as one of the top countries as far as life expectancy. So Joe Biden is not wrong on any of this
https://www.newsweek.com/ben-shapiro-de ... re-1459276

He's supposed to be this leading right-wing intellectual, but I'm not seeing it. There are several issues with the above statement. First, you can repeat the exercise for every other country and remove the two or three things where they do particularly badly. Second, these things are actually bad, and at least in the case of suicide and homicide, linked to the status of the health care system. Third, it doesn't quantitatively justify spending an extra 10% on GDP on health care, or if it does he did not demonstrate it.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 5 days ago

Curious what everyone thinks of the attack on Saudi oil?

Thoughts on the fall out that may occur?

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 5 days ago

Hairblues wrote:
5 days ago
Curious what everyone thinks of the attack on Saudi oil?

Thoughts on the fall out that may occur?
It's hard for me to judge that specific incident. I know that Saudi oil was attacked. I don't know how significant it is in terms of total oil production, nor who did it. The claim is that Iranian allies in Yemen did it, but it's hard to trust those people making the claims (Pompeo, etc). On the other hand, they have the most incentive to do that attack.

In terms of the general situation, I'm very concerned for the United States' position as I live here. Their allies in the region are Israel and Saudi Arabia, and neither are doing very well. Iran and her network of allies, who are in turn backed by Russia, are doing well, they've held back Saudi Arabia in Yemen (at a huge humanitarian cost), and they're secure in Syria and Lebanon. The US has also not succeeded in placing allies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The situation just doesn't appear very strong. There's also zero political support at home to send a large number of US troops there, Trump actually ran on somewhat of an anti-war platform.

A lot of the US' wealth is based on being the world's pre-eminent power, and on the US dollar being the world's reserve currency. Both of those are undermined by current developments in the Middle East. I can't say with a straight face that moving on from that status is impossible, but it would certainly be difficult.

With respect to Trump, I'll note that all of the issues in the above paragraphs precede Trump. Bush Jr. has a lot of responsibility (clearly) for the clusterfucks that were Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of lost blood, treasure, political capital, and national pride. Obama fucked things up in Libya but at least he stayed out of Syria. Returning to Trump, if he actually succeeds in his trade war with China, which I don't know enough to conclude on, I'll say that his foreign policy is kind of successful. I consider that to be the most important issue right now.

Added in 11 hours 49 minutes 36 seconds:
Trump gives a compliment to a minority.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/17/politi ... cnn.com%2F

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » 3 days ago

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/9/18/208 ... a-election

They keep eating their own. What a pleasure to see the modern neopuritan left get caught in the incoherent rules and unattainable standards that they themselves made up.



Always remember, you're next!

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 3 days ago

Admin wrote:
3 days ago
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/9/18/208 ... a-election

They keep eating their own. What a pleasure to see the modern neopuritan left get caught in the incoherent rules and unattainable standards that they themselves made up.



Always remember, you're next!
Trudeau did this to himself. He could have not worn black face. Alternatively, he could have released this himself some time in the past, and apologized for it, and acknowledged why it was wrong. He could have owned it. A good time, for example, would have been when it was in the news due to the developments in Virginia.

I don't see Trudeau as one of my own. I think that he's a narcissist, and that his progressivism is like a fashion statement for him. He wants to be cool and to be loved. He has some of his father's charisma, and likely some of his father's IQ, but not his father's intellectuality. His dad was an asshole to, but in a brilliant asshole kind of way, rather than a thoughtless douchebag kind of way.

Trudeau, by the way, loves to play dress-up. It's totally bonkers that he dressed in the manner below when visiting India, he was representing Canada, so he should be wearing Canadian clothing, not insulting Indians:
Image
Image

This is Trudeau in Vancouver's Chinatown:
Image

I'm not quite sure what he's doing here:
Image

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » 3 days ago

Admin wrote:
3 days ago
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/9/18/208 ... a-election

They keep eating their own. What a pleasure to see the modern neopuritan left get caught in the incoherent rules and unattainable standards that they themselves made up.



Always remember, you're next!
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘eating their own’

Who is ‘they’? The press? They have a responsibility to report something news worthy. If they burried the story or photo that would have looked like bias.

Added in 1 minute 53 seconds:
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
3 days ago
Trudeau did this to himself. He could have not worn black face. Alternatively, he could have released this himself some time in the past, and apologized for it, and acknowledged why it was wrong. He could have owned it. A good time, for example, would have been when it was in the news due to the developments in Virginia.

I don't see Trudeau as one of my own. I think that he's a narcissist, and that his progressivism is like a fashion statement for him. He wants to be cool and to be loved. He has some of his father's charisma, and likely some of his father's IQ, but not his father's intellectuality. His dad was an asshole to, but in a brilliant asshole kind of way, rather than a thoughtless douchebag kind of way.

Trudeau, by the way, loves to play dress-up. It's totally bonkers that he dressed in the manner below when visiting India, he was representing Canada, so he should be wearing Canadian clothing, not insulting Indians:
Image
Image

This is Trudeau in Vancouver's Chinatown:
Image

I'm not quite sure what he's doing here:
Image
Yeah to be honest he’s so fluffy I can’t even tell you anything about him. He’s like a parody of himself.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » 3 days ago

Hairblues wrote:
3 days ago
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘eating their own’

Who is ‘they’? The press? They have a responsibility to report something news worthy. If they burried the story or photo that would have looked like bias.
I was wrong here, of course nothing will happen to him, he's on the radical left. They don't eat their own unless they've become disposable somehow. He'll live, I mean when it comes to his reputation. If a right-wing or even centrist politician had done the same, he would have been thrown in the Gulag 17 for all eternity.

I have really lost all patience and sense of nuance when it comes to the vile tactics the regressive left uses, mere tools, power plays to make sure that their opposition is always guilty no matter what they do. If they decide to pick you as a target, you're done on the media scene, it's their world, their reality and they control everything in their Matrix.

Ah well, at least a parallel world of independent creators, artists, intellectuals is flowering. Jordan Peterson will launch his own social media platform Thinkspot soon. I expect the establishment left to turn all Exorcist on us and be like "we own you, you racist bigots! If we leave the public sphere, everybody dies!"

Image

The rest of the world will just be like: "bye losers!"

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 3 days ago

Admin wrote:
3 days ago
I was wrong here, of course nothing will happen to him, he's on the radical left. They don't eat their own unless they've become disposable somehow. He'll live, I mean when it comes to his reputation. If a right-wing or even centrist politician had done the same, he would have been thrown in the Gulag 17 for all eternity.

I have really lost all patience and sense of nuance when it comes to the vile tactics the regressive left uses, mere tools, power plays to make sure that their opposition is always guilty no matter what they do. If they decide to pick you as a target, you're done on the media scene, it's their world, their reality and they control everything in their Matrix.

Ah well, at least a parallel world of independent creators, artists, intellectuals is flowering. Jordan Peterson will launch his own social media platform Thinkspot soon. I expect the establishment left to turn all Exorcist on us and be like "we own you, you racist bigots! If we leave the public sphere, everybody dies!"

Image

The rest of the world will just be like: "bye losers!"
I'm out of the loop with Canadian politics. I know that many Canadian lefties are deeply afraid of Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, but I never see this accompanied with an explanation of why they're afraid. This is him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Scheer

His wikipedia page is pretty generic.

I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Peterson, but I thought that he made a valid point when I recently heard him point out how the NY Times excluded his book from the bestsellers list. Whether they like it or not is irrelevant, they should be professional and acknowledge that it did well. He said that it will have negligible impact on the Times, but as they do more and more things like this, their loss of credibility eventually accumulates to macroscopic levels.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » 3 days ago



:lol:

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Re: Making sense of the current political climateli

Post by Hairblues » 2 days ago

Admin wrote:
3 days ago
I was wrong here, of course nothing will happen to him, he's on the radical left. They don't eat their own unless they've become disposable somehow. He'll live, I mean when it comes to his reputation. If a right-wing or even centrist politician had done the same, he would have been thrown in the Gulag 17 for all eternity.

I have really lost all patience and sense of nuance when it comes to the vile tactics the regressive left uses, mere tools, power plays to make sure that their opposition is always guilty no matter what they do. If they decide to pick you as a target, you're done on the media scene, it's their world, their reality and they control everything in their Matrix.

Ah well, at least a parallel world of independent creators, artists, intellectuals is flowering. Jordan Peterson will launch his own social media platform Thinkspot soon. I expect the establishment left to turn all Exorcist on us and be like "we own you, you racist bigots! If we leave the public sphere, everybody dies!"

Image

The rest of the world will just be like: "bye losers!"

I’m not following your train of thought from Justin Trudeau to here.

Many people on the left are also not happy with the cancel culture. There is a lot of infighting about it. So when you say left, you're looping a whole lot of people in together on this one aspect and therefore potentially alienating a ton of people.

I want to just remind people that ‘lefties” didn’t invent the cancel culture in the USA. That shit was going on when I was a kid and it was well organized on the religious right. Married with children, will and grace, Ellen Degemerois show, Whoopi Goldberg and Bill Maher all come to mind as having been targeted. Some were indeed canceled as a result, some not. I also recall some albums being banned (Dixie chicks) and some being accused of being held responsible for suicides.
Charlton Heston and the police I believe tried to have Ice Cube banned (cop killer) perhaps even the record label if I can recall correctly.

I think you would do better to think of it as some ‘humans’ when they Have too much power have a compulsion to control thoughts and actions of others they find objectionable. It’s a human weakness I think we are all capable of beyond our political ideology and probably some personality types are more prone to this than other.

You worship a church that for many years dominated controlling people’s actions and thoughts, and in doing so have committed some atrocities in history. Torture, death.

When we start labeling it becomes alienating and more divisive.

The right would do it as well (and have) they just don’t have the power via the media (social media) to do so effectively at this time.

I was thinking yesterday that @Afro_Vacancy has such patience to engage with people who in their posts reject what he says based on their belief he’s ‘woke’ or a ‘leftie’.
It’s as if they are saying he can’t think as an individual so whatever sense he’s making can be rejected or put on defense or ‘mistrusted’ because it’s ‘tainted’ somehow. Personally, when I see posts like that addressed to me I’ve been trying not to bother engaging anymore because it’s limited an just going to be an endless loop.


Edit
I re read your post and I think I’m wrong, you don’t seem to be looping the whole left in it.

What makes me nervous is how so few people can dictate what is approved or disproved of. The SNL actor for example. Seemed harmless to me just insensitive but humor is mostly insensitive.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climateli

Post by Admin » 2 days ago

Hairblues wrote:
2 days ago
I’m not following your train of thought from Justin Trudeau to here.

Many people on the left are also not happy with the cancel culture. There is a lot of infighting about it. So when you say left, you're looping a whole lot of people in together on this one aspect and therefore potentially alienating a ton of people.

I want to just remind people that ‘lefties” didn’t invent the cancel culture in the USA. That shit was going on when I was a kid and it was well organized on the religious right. Married with children, will and grace, Ellen Degemerois show, Whoopi Goldberg and Bill Maher all come to mind as having been targeted. Some were indeed canceled as a result, some not. I also recall some albums being banned (Dixie chicks) and some being accused of being held responsible for suicides.
Charlton Heston and the police I believe tried to have Ice Cube banned (cop killer) perhaps even the record label if I can recall correctly.

I think you would do better to think of it as some ‘humans’ when they Have too much power have a compulsion to control thoughts and actions of others they find objectionable. It’s a human weakness I think we are all capable of beyond our political ideology and probably some personality types are more prone to this than other.

You worship a church that for many years dominated controlling people’s actions and thoughts, and in doing so have committed some atrocities in history. Torture, death.

When we start labeling it becomes alienating and more divisive.

The right would do it as well (and have) they just don’t have the power via the media (social media) to do so effectively at this time.

I was thinking yesterday that @Afro_Vacancy has such patience to engage with people who in their posts reject what he says based on their belief he’s ‘woke’ or a ‘leftie’.
It’s as if they are saying he can’t think as an individual so whatever sense he’s making can be rejected or put on defense or ‘mistrusted’ because it’s ‘tainted’ somehow. Personally, when I see posts like that addressed to me I’ve been trying not to bother engaging anymore because it’s limited an just going to be an endless loop.
I was only talking about the radical left, which indeed are the new puritans, a new version of what the religious fundamentalists on the right a few decades ago. What you say about power corrupting the elite class is quite interesting. I also try to see what's going on in terms of human nature. To me it works a bit like this, our democracies allows the people to choose what kind of policies their countries need at a given moment, and as I've said before, despite being on the left, I believe that the Western world needs conservatism at the moment, to realize that it needs to salvage its foundations, without which it won't be able to survive.

People increasingly notice this, so the majority of them vote on the right. Going left was inevitable after the Second World War, the pendulum had to swing back, but the Western World just couldn't stay there indefinitely. The problem we face now is that the left who had gotten used to being in power since the late 1960's does not want to let go, they think they're owed power, that only progressivism can be the way forward, and boy have they shown that they wouldn't hesitate to use every dirty trick in the book to justify the political status quo.

So their political adversaries, and their voters had to become vile racist nazi bigots with hate in their hearts who want the world to go back to the 1950's, take away women's rights, bring back religious fundamentalism, etc. etc. And now 50% of any given Western country has to carry all those horrible ideas that part of the left has been stamping on them in the last few years. People on the right are seriously wondering what's going on, some of them are scared, that their reputation, their whole lives could be destroyed because of that far left elite who will not tolerate dissent or criticism. Anyone can now be stamped as a nazi, a racist, a bigot on the internet and our internet leftist overlords will allow it. And there's barely anything that the average citizen can do about this.

Except vote, and most people will vote right. The right systematically separates itself from its extremists, the left hasn't done that with the radical left. And it was a huge mistake, only now is part of the left starting to realize that they screwed up big time. And I think it goes beyond enabling the radicals on one's side, it's deeper than that. For me, it's also the inability to find anything the left says interesting or authentic. If I want deep conversations about truly controversial topics, I have to go on the right.

Anyway, you're right to think of it as human weakness. I think it's also about identity and how the left and the far right have come to think that people are their political leaning, that it defines their whole being. I may be a Christian, but even my religion does not have to define my whole being. And of course I had to address that: I don't worship anything or anyone but God/Jesus. Yes we have authoritarians in our Church, just like in any group. And they will always be there, what matters is whether they're kept in check by the moderate, more open-minded people. Right now the left still lets its radicals run loose, but it might hopefully start changing soon. In fact, it might already be happening:


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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by yettee » 2 days ago

I'm going to go out on what is apparently a limb here and say that actually, dressing in blackface repeatedly, as an adult, is condemnable and I understand how some people would not vote for a candidate who did it. I get that the 'virtue police' are not a good thing and it's tough to find the line. I suppose it's for every person to decide what kind of behavior they consider ethical and acceptable for a world leader, based on their religious beliefs, societal norms etc. For me, if you find a tape of someone using a racial slur 20 years ago, OK, maybe give it a pass with contrition. Maybe the SNL comedian keeps his job with the right explanation. But blackface? So many times that apparently he can't recall how many instances there are? Not a good look. And of course I think anyone on the left who would give him a pass but condemn someone on the right for it is a hypocrite. The reverse is also certainly true for those on the right who would condemn politicians on the left for certain behaviors like extra-marital affairs but give a huge, smiling pass to a politician (ahem) on the right for the same thing.

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