Making sense of the current political climate

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Making sense of the current political climate

#26535

Post by Guest-2 » 2 weeks ago

rclark wrote: 2 weeks ago You don't understand the situation in the United States. We have violent right wing groups, like the Proud Boys, and a President who leads them.
In New York, if Cuomo didn't do anything, there would have been a lot more deaths then there have been. He forced people to wear masks, and closed down non essential businesses (temporarily). He did the same actions the governor in New Jersey did.

To be honest, I think your admiration of a country leader in a place that you don't even live in is fake. Trump doesn't posts all of his white house speeches on youtube. He had people publically discuss being robbed/and raped by Hispanic people, when he wanted to get funding for the wall between Mexico and the United States.

I don't make comments about other countries leaders because I don't understand enough to make something intelligent enough to say.
to be fair, I think he lives here. I may be mistaken.

But many who live here and are Trumpsters are drinking his Kool Aid, over their own common sense.

I have a friend who was totally taking precautions, her an her whole family, I notice the more Trump becomes flippant about this disease and the precautions he is taking (We lead by example), she has become less cautionary. And it's not like she doesn't know what can happen, in fact she personally knows a lot more people who died of this disease than I do.
It's just whatever Trumps says, she goes along with. It's very cultish in that sense.

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Making sense of the current political climate

#26536

Post by Guest-4 » 2 weeks ago

@Admin , part of the reason that it's fair to blame the President for actions like those of that militia, even if it turns out that a small number of them hate him, is that as the President he influences social norms. It's an inevitable consequence of being the public leader of a country, who is widely discussed on all forms of media.

Trump's record in this area is clear. He brags about bragging women by the pussy and that they don't fight back. He mocks women by implying they might be on their period. He's a pathological liar. His debate performance with Biden was textbook gaslighting/interrupting/lying, though in that case he wasn't very good at it. He asked the proud boys to stand by. He asks his supporters to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!" He separates children from their parents in order to appear "tough".

And the consequences are clear as well. There's a massive increase in white supremacist activities and militias. We're seeing more people like Robert Bowers and Cesar Sagnoc. We had the Charlottesville rally where we had good people on one side and bad people on the other. And now this shit. It's a lot.

Human beings are impressionable and a lot of people are being activated by this far-right stimulation and being led further astray from reality. Trump is both a cause and a consequence and an amplifier of that. I'll remind you that at least three of this forum's most active posters have been radicalized in recent years.
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Making sense of the current political climate

#26539

Post by Wire » 2 weeks ago

Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago Human beings are impressionable and a lot of people are being activated by this far-right stimulation and being led further astray from reality. Trump is both a cause ....
in my opinion the far left is a bigger cause. You cannot blame Trump for the reaction to antifa, and transgender pronouns, and cis white men are evil, and open borders but only for mexicans, and race quotas, and black lives matter but not when blacks are killed by blacks.
Trump is just an opportunist who is taking advantage of the backlash.

Added in 38 minutes 3 seconds:
Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks ago
https://www.managedhealthcareconnect.co ... ial-claims

Bottom line:
.... but many of them believed they had no other choice.
Thank you for posting that :thumbup:
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Making sense of the current political climate

#26541

Post by rclark » 2 weeks ago

Wire wrote: 2 weeks ago in my opinion the far left is a bigger cause. You cannot blame Trump for the reaction to antifa, and transgender pronouns, and cis white men are evil, and open borders but only for mexicans, and race quotas, and black lives matter but not when blacks are killed by blacks.
Trump is just an opportunist who is taking advantage of the backlash.
It would have been alright for the President to say that both sides were equally responsible.

A Trump protester got run over in 2017. She got run over by a Trump supporter. Trump said that both sides were to blame. Nobody killed
right wing protesters during that time.

Yes, protesting a violent police officer, who probably would have killed a any person for going over the speed limit, doesn't
make sense. It wasn't fair to two of the police officers to be fired (That was their first day on the job., they were "learning" from
officer Derick) . That said, it was fair to fire him, and the other officer that was his partner for
ten years. He didn't speak up. The other two were new, and it was their first day on the job. In fact, I think one of them did question
officer Derick. It is fair that he goes to prison for what he did.

If that is something he got caught doing, chances are, he probably did something violent when people weren't watching. Because some
states have quarantine measure, others have none at all, it's hard to know.

Most of the protesters, in my opinion, who are burning down buildings are white.

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Making sense of the current political climate

#26542

Post by Wire » 2 weeks ago

rclark wrote: 2 weeks ago Most of the protesters, in my opinion, who are burning down buildings are white.
Agree.
Isn't that sexual harassment?!
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Making sense of the current political climate

#26546

Post by Admin » 2 weeks ago

Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago @Admin , part of the reason that it's fair to blame the President for actions like those of that militia, even if it turns out that a small number of them hate him, is that as the President he influences social norms. It's an inevitable consequence of being the public leader of a country, who is widely discussed on all forms of media.

Trump's record in this area is clear. He brags about bragging women by the pussy and that they don't fight back. He mocks women by implying they might be on their period. He's a pathological liar. His debate performance with Biden was textbook gaslighting/interrupting/lying, though in that case he wasn't very good at it. He asked the proud boys to stand by. He asks his supporters to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!" He separates children from their parents in order to appear "tough".

And the consequences are clear as well. There's a massive increase in white supremacist activities and militias. We're seeing more people like Robert Bowers and Cesar Sagnoc. We had the Charlottesville rally where we had good people on one side and bad people on the other. And now this shit. It's a lot.

Human beings are impressionable and a lot of people are being activated by this far-right stimulation and being led further astray from reality. Trump is both a cause and a consequence and an amplifier of that. I'll remind you that at least three of this forum's most active posters have been radicalized in recent years.
With all due respect, I've heard that story before, in fact I've been told that story over and over again since I was in primary school. And I used to believe it, it's a powerful myth, I'll give you that. What scares me and my family now is that we've become the villains in that story. We vote for parties that our media, academia and mainstream politicians label as far right. If we were Americans, we would vote for Donald Trump with both hands, especially in the context of this election.

The story goes more or less like this: there is the left side, the enlightened people who believe in liberation from suffering through reason and social progress, these are the good guys. And on the other side, there are the people who want to remain in the "dark ages" as the "light people" call them, who believe in irrational stuff like revealed truth, that there is this template that was given to us on how to strive towards a virtuous life, which give reality its constraints, and those constraints cannot be bargained with. These are the bad guys.

These days you cannot defend the latter worldview without being instantly labeled as far right, or at least suspected of it. And when that happens, there is a powerful system in place set up by the good guys™ to make your life a living hell, to destroy your reputation and ostracize you from society. Those people are still enabled by the leftist establishment, and this is the beacon that retains all my attention in the political sphere. I vote for the equivalent of Trump here in Belgium because I want them to step in and dismantle this far left lunacy with an iron fist.

The rest doesn't matter much to me. Politics are important but not to the extent that the modern world would have you believe. Politicians are not gods who have the power to stop floods, fires, diseases and what not, they're just flawed and irrational sinful people who try to do their best just like the rest of us. Human beings are endowed with free will and ultimately make their own choices. If someone commits an act of evil, I will blame them, not some politician.
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Making sense of the current political climate

#26547

Post by Guest-2 » 2 weeks ago

Wire wrote: 2 weeks ago in my opinion the far left is a bigger cause. You cannot blame Trump for the reaction to antifa, and transgender pronouns, and cis white men are evil, and open borders but only for mexicans, and race quotas, and black lives matter but not when blacks are killed by blacks.
Trump is just an opportunist who is taking advantage of the backlash.

Added in 38 minutes 3 seconds:

Thank you for posting that :thumbup:
Why can’t we blame him for being an opportunist?

By definition
a person who exploits circumstances to gain immediate advantage rather than being guided by consistent principles or plans.

it’s interesting that last week in this site he was compared to a Mama Bear, and this week he’s an opportunist.

Added in 12 minutes 12 seconds:
Admin wrote: 2 weeks ago With all due respect, I've heard that story before, in fact I've been told that story over and over again since I was in primary school. And I used to believe it, it's a powerful myth, I'll give you that. What scares me and my family now is that we've become the villains in that story. We vote for parties that our media, academia and mainstream politicians label as far right. If we were Americans, we would vote for Donald Trump with both hands, especially in the context of this election.

The story goes more or less like this: there is the left side, the enlightened people who believe in liberation from suffering through reason and social progress, these are the good guys. And on the other side, there are the people who want to remain in the "dark ages" as the "light people" call them, who believe in irrational stuff like revealed truth, that there is this template that was given to us on how to strive towards a virtuous life, which give reality its constraints, and those constraints cannot be bargained with. These are the bad guys.

These days you cannot defend the latter worldview without being instantly labeled as far right, or at least suspected of it. And when that happens, there is a powerful system in place set up by the good guys™ to make your life a living hell, to destroy your reputation and ostracize you from society. Those people are still enabled by the leftist establishment, and this is the beacon that retains all my attention in the political sphere. I vote for the equivalent of Trump here in Belgium because I want them to step in and dismantle this far left lunacy with an iron fist.

The rest doesn't matter much to me. Politics are important but not to the extent that the modern world would have you believe. Politicians are not gods who have the power to stop floods, fires, diseases and what not, they're just flawed and irrational sinful people who try to do their best just like the rest of us. Human beings are endowed with free will and ultimately make their own choices. If someone commits an act of evil, I will blame them, not some politician.
You would lose a lot of the benefits you use in your country if you moved here and these benefits are not in line with the Republican Party.

To be honest, if you had these principles or conservatism I don’t think you would be comfortable living where you are with the benefits you currently have. It doesn’t match the principles of the Republican Party.

So I don’t know how you can even imagine what you would do here without them.

It’s like me imagining what I would do if I lived in Europe. There is no way to know.

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Making sense of the current political climate

#26548

Post by Wire » 2 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks ago Why can’t we blame him for being an opportunist?
?
Almost all people who deal in politics are opportunists.

Look, the thing people need to do is to recognize this, and not put people in power on a pedestal. What matters is what these people can do to achieve the objectives you would like. With this in mind, I fully believe the current pandering principles of the left within the last decade are contributing to the destruction of the West more than anything else. These principles in the long term aren't good for any race. Putting race first like BLM and antifa are doing, and the ubiquity of race and gender quotas is essentially a statement that races cannot coexist together in the same country. People are climbing the ladder based on the ideologies they subscribe to, not based on their skill or accomplishments. This is so not the West I aspired to immigrate to.

And make no mistake, China is taking advantage of and contributing to this Western destruction.

Is Trump a "leader" I look up to? Fuck no. But liberals have gone absolutely bonkers.

Gender pronouns in email signatures. Weaponized empathy. BLM rallies and property destruction when the world economy has tanked to a literally unprecedented extent. Death threats to Terry Crews. This is the alternative to the Right?

I posted this interview a few weeks back:




PS: I think it's very telling that the most vocal critics on this forum of leftist lunacy have been non-whites and people from outside the west (That Guy being the exception, and Admin to some extent).
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Making sense of the current political climate

#26549

Post by rclark » 2 weeks ago

Recent

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nurse-spoke- ... 12077.html

Anybody who is interested in learning the history of the political violence after the 2016 election, should study the Proud Boys.

Here is the original Proud Boys founder/leader:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes

After there crimes became more public, they tried to change their image. They proceeded to hire a Hispanic male to be their new leader.

in 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte ... car_attack

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#26550

Post by Guest-2 » 2 weeks ago

Wire wrote: 2 weeks ago ?
Almost all people who deal in politics are opportunists.

Look, the thing people need to do is to recognize this, and not put people in power on a pedestal. What matters is what these people can do to achieve the objectives you would like. With this in mind, I fully believe the current pandering principles of the left within the last decade are contributing to the destruction of the West more than anything else. These principles in the long term aren't good for any race. Putting race first like BLM and antifa are doing, and the ubiquity of race and gender quotas is essentially a statement that races cannot coexist together in the same country. People are climbing the ladder based on the ideologies they subscribe to, not based on their skill or accomplishments. This is so not the West I aspired to immigrate to.

And make no mistake, China is taking advantage of and contributing to this Western destruction.

Is Trump a "leader" I look up to? Fuck no. But liberals have gone absolutely bonkers.

Gender pronouns in email signatures. Weaponized empathy. BLM rallies and property destruction when the world economy has tanked to a literally unprecedented extent. Death threats to Terry Crews. This is the alternative to the Right?

I posted this interview a few weeks back:




PS: I think it's very telling that the most vocal critics on this forum of leftist lunacy have been non-whites and people from outside the west (That Guy being the exception, and admin to some extent).
I think it's much more telling that most of the vocal critics of the left side of USA politics on this site, weren't born or raised here.

I think saying almost all people who deal in politics are opportunists is a major cop out.
I didn't agree with much that Ronald Reagan did or said, John McCain or even Bush Sr. but I wouldn't call any of them 'opportunists'.

Do we have issues and problem on the left? We sure do. But I’m much more willing to fight that out with them when democrats are in power than with people condoning trumpism with Trump in power. I don’t see anything radical left with Joe Biden that you’re describing.

Trump failed the 3-am test (an article came out today I have not read it yet, but the title says what most of us in USA are thinking and feeling perfectly)

That’s why all those ‘radical liberal’ military generals are endorsing Biden.

“You have to believe your commander in chief, at the end of the day, is someone you can trust,” General McChrystal said. “And I can trust Joe Biden.”

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Making sense of the current political climate

#26552

Post by rclark » 2 weeks ago

It is fair to say violence is on both sides.

To deny it is on the right is a huge understatement. To deny it exists, or say it is only the left is
extremely wrong.

People who have condemned a comedian for holding a Trump head in the air, but that is
FAR different from pointing guns and shooting at people you disagree with.

In 2018, this sniper and Trump supporter was plotting to kill people. He wasn't the first
either, and he won't be the last.

https://apnews.com/article/46514c3eb6fb ... 2c24b0acf5

It's not just Trump either. This has been happening on the right before. Here the father of
a man who shot 49 people attends a Hillary Clinton rally in 2016.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/orlando ... d=41242838

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#26554

Post by Guest-4 » 2 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks ago I think it's much more telling that most of the vocal critics of the left side of USA politics on this site, weren't born or raised here.
They might be reading a lot of media that says that Antifa is a grave threat to our lives. Here are some things that I fear actually living here, not in order:

- car accidents, reckless drivers, exacerbated by poor infrastructure. If Trump had actually rebuilt infrastructure like he promised it would have helped.
- poisoned tap water.
- Mass shootings.
- Getting Covid, suffering permanent damage to my lungs or developing chronic fatigue as has happened to many people.
- Long term environmental destruction, largely due to climate change. Every year I have to fear for people I know in California (fires) and Florida (Hurricanes).
- the destruction of the economy. I worry if my favourite businesses will still be there in a year. I worry if the charities that I volunteer at will still be there in a year. I worry if my job will still exist in a year -- why is science less well managed in the USA than in Europe?
- Will health care -- already the most expensive system in the world -- become more and more expensive?
- if I ever have children, will schools have 40 kids per classroom and guns everywhere? Will university tuition cost $150,000/year? Heck, will the pregnancy+birth cost $25,000?

Those are all grave problems, infinitely worse than somebody getting a sex change operation, which is obvious to anyone who lives here.
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#26556

Post by Wire » 2 weeks ago

Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago- car accidents, reckless drivers, exacerbated by poor infrastructure. If Trump had actually rebuilt infrastructure like he promised it would have helped.
- poisoned tap water.
Fair.
Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago - Mass shootings.
There aren't that many people killed in mass shootings.

Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago - Long term environmental destruction, largely due to climate change. Every year I have to fear for people I know in California (fires) and Florida (Hurricanes).
- the destruction of the economy. I worry if my favourite businesses will still be there in a year. I worry if the charities that I volunteer at will still be there in a year. I worry if my job will still exist in a year -- why is science less well managed in the USA than in Europe?
Science absolutely needs to be better in the US. Major failing of the Right.
Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago - Will health care -- already the most expensive system in the world -- become more and more expensive?
I too am extremely interested in the causes for the high costs.
Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks ago Will university tuition cost $150,000/year?
High costs due to bloated administration are in general the purvey of Democrats.
Still, in-state tuition isn't that high. Lets take University of Texas: https://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/te ... at-austin/
$10k per year seems very reasonable to me.
The article also mentions a national average of $7,203 per year, which is almost cheap.

Now, if someone wants to get raped at hedge funds like Harvard, that is their choice.

Guest-4 wrote: 2 weeks agoThose are all grave problems, infinitely worse than somebody getting a sex change operation, which is obvious to anyone who lives here.
Nobody gives a fuck if someone chooses to have elective surgery on their own dime.
Isn't that sexual harassment?!
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#26557

Post by Guest-2 » 2 weeks ago

Wire wrote: 2 weeks agoNobody gives a fuck if someone chooses to have elective surgery on their own dime.
Is this something that bothers you?

Medicaid funded reassignment surgery?

it’s a tiny number of people getting reassignment surgery a year. Between 3 and 10k a year. (For Those on ) Medicaid is going to pay the bare minimum.
We have 330 million people in the country to give some perspective of how small a number this is. The basis reassignment of genitals is $30k.

You’re talking about pennies out of your taxes if even that. I don’t know how to calculate it exactly but you lose more in loose change in your couch than what comes out of your taxes for changing a rooster to a hen.

I think you would be more mad we don’t have more government funded preventative programs for weight loss, quitting smoking drinking and drugs if you’re worried about Medicaid costs. Most of it is probably obesity and low quality of food related. Michelle Obama was crucified by the right for trying to teach kids about nutrition. Why? To prevent obesity. Why? Because obesity is a slow killer and makes people sick for many years which we all end up paying for.

Are you for tax payer money going to better quality school lunch programs?

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#26558

Post by Wire » 2 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks agoIs this something that bothers you?

Medicaid funded reassignment surgery?

it’s a tiny number of people getting reassignment surgery a year. Between 3 and 10k a year. (For Those on ) Medicaid is going to pay the bare minimum.
We have 330 million people in the country to give some perspective of how small a number this is. The basis reassignment of genitals is $30k.

You’re talking about pennies out of your taxes if even that. I don’t know how to calculate it exactly but you lose more in loose change in your couch than what comes out of your taxes for changing a rooster to a hen.
Yes it bothers me, but as you aptly point out, the tax liabilities are small, and there are certainly a LOT more tax waste going on.
My concern is, before this line went off track, if I don't publicly profess my support for "preferred pronouns", I will be categorized a transphobe bigot, with career advancement blocked.

Anyone read about Coinbase: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/si ... tics-rule/
Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks ago I think you would be more mad we don’t have more government funded preventative programs for weight loss, quitting smoking drinking and drugs if you’re worried about Medicaid costs. Most of it is probably obesity and low quality of food related. Michelle Obama was crucified by the right for trying to teach kids about nutrition. Why? To prevent obesity. Why? Because obesity is a slow killer and makes people sick for many years which we all end up paying for.
Oh, there's plenty of asininity on the Right.
Guest-2 wrote: 2 weeks ago Are you for tax payer money going to better quality school lunch programs?
I am uninformed on this issue, I do not have an opinion.
Isn't that sexual harassment?!
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