Making sense of the current political climate

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by JLBB » 7 months ago

yettee wrote:
7 months ago
Thanks, I think? :D

Jean, I get that you support the prez, and more power to you for that, it's your right. But as regards the sanctions you're making an argument that no one makes... not the Dems, Republicans, or T himself.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-r ... ing-2017-8
You're another dishonest degenerate who is too stupid to focus on legitimate issues that effect people (healthcare, education, wages, economic etc) so you resort to the dogshit Trump Russia nonsense which has zero evidence or even anything suggesting it as a possibility after 2 years. The evidence suggests the opposite Yettee, you cannot act as if legislative actions which harm Russia at every turn for an extended period of time still emphasise seriously the possibility of him being a foreign puppet. Not a single concession over what occurred during Obama era polices.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by yettee » 7 months ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
7 months ago
You're another dishonest degenerate who is too stupid to focus on legitimate issues that effect people (healthcare, education, wages, economc etc) so you resort to the dogshit Trump Russia nonsense which has zero evidence or even anything suggesting it as a possibility after 2 years. The evidence suggests the opposite Yettee, you cannot act as if legislative actions which harm Russia at every turn for an extended period of time still emphasise seriously the possibility of him being a foreign puppet. Not a single concession over what occurred during Obama era polices.
I'm not in elementary school, so silly namecalling aside, I have no idea if he's any sort of puppet and havent speculated about it here. Nameless said he probably is, and you pointed to tough US policy toward Russia as evidence that he isn't. You said this: " he didn't lift sanctions (in actual fact they've been INCREASED under Trump, and he never said he wanted to lift them)" I provided you evidence that this is untrue, he was unhappy about it. Read the quotes in the article, and what his own party says.

You'd be better off making the case that he's a peacemaker. And he may well be. (This is something @Afro_Vacancy used to say, I'm not sure what he thinks now.) For better or worse, for example, things have calmed down with N. Korea in the past year. The fact that he has wanted to improve relations with Russia doesn't prove nameless's case, and in fact it may say good things about him, I don't know. But anyway it's factual and provable.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » 7 months ago

I don't even talk to Jean anymore because he's too stupid to respect enough to argue with.

He's full of shit, he's stupid, and I don't argue with him anymore because arguing with him is like arguing with a stick.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by blackg » 7 months ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
7 months ago
I don't support everything he does, so cut the idiotic strawman, WE WERE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT HIM BEING BEHOLDEN TO RUSSIAN INTERESTS.

Hey fuckhead, again, if you have proof that he's a Russian agent then spit it out, but in every regard Trump has increased foreign policy pressure on them, does it make sense to keep playing the Russia card when there is no evidence to point to that suggests this? Would an agent beholden to foreign Russian powers increase breadth of sanctions as they become critical to the Russian economy, suggest they will be indefinite, close Russian diplomatic buildings, expel diplomats in the US and attack key Russian allies?

Yetti, read what I said and what we are actually talking about, instead of resorting to being a complete fucking idiot and criticising me for something I wasn't being discussed. Maybe you are dumber than I thought and need help, Nameless said he specifically didn't vote Republican but would have, only he wanted to press investigation that Trump wasn't beholden to Russian power. That is very clear and specific so don't pretend you can't read.

Your article shows absolutely nothing suggesting otherwise in regards to the current state and actions that were taken in regards to Russia over the past two years. Its nothing but rhetoric, the facts remain that foreign policy influencing Russia has not been relaxed in any sense. You press a narrative of him even potentially being Putin's puppet when the facts show the opposite. It makes you look incredibly dishonest and biased, the facts don't support you even making the potential claim, in the circumstances they make you sound unhinged.
Are you addressing Nameless or Yetti?
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Uncle Grandfather » 7 months ago

nameless wrote:
7 months ago
The democrats ran on Obamacare but that's not why I voted for them. I voted democratic because USA citizens need to learn the truth about whether or not Team-Trump was involved with Russians during the 2016 campaign. That's the only reason I voted all democrat. The republicans ran on anti-immigration and strong borders. I agree with the republicans on those 2 issues but I felt that the possibility of Team Trump being involved with Russia during the 2016 elections is a more important issue. in my opinion the possibility that Team-Trump colluded with the Russians is the number 1 issue of the midterms.
So you would forego two major issues you agree with to support the party that opposes said major issues, all because of a hunch? I mean more power to you, though I don't agree with your priorities.

Also why did you give my Wakanda comment a dislike? No sense of humor?
JeanLucBB wrote:
7 months ago
If you think that Ocasio Cortez makes talking points that are in-line with 99% of current Democrats, you are entirely politically illiterate or wilfully ignorant towards nuance.

I do agree though that Nameless is a grade-A moron for his reasoning of voting Democrat however.
99% was an exaggeration, but a great deal of Democrats in 2018 do have those views. All the high profile ones (Waters, Harris, etc.), at least.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 7 months ago

The NY Times had a great investigative article on how Facebook has (mis)-handled Russiagate:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/tech ... acism.html

Russian interference appears to have taken the form of Russia employing a large number of trolls to spread right-wing "information" on the internet. It's a bit amazing that this worked, but it did. I remember back around October 2016, there was a widely dispersed report that Hillary Clinton was meeting up with occultists and participating in ritualized child sacrifices.

Of note to some here who are into right-wing conspiracy theories, one of the strategies that Facebook used to defend itself was to argue that its critics were all funded by George Soros. This is apparently a general strategy that marketing companies offer: "Just blame Soros."

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 7 months ago

This year was a very different year in my township.

The Republicans held all the seats, in which five township seats were voted on, and
the entire Assembly for over forty five years (1975).

They lost every seat they ran for this year. Not by much though. Out of 90,000+
votes, they only lost be less than 400 people, on most seats.

They gained two Township seats (out of five, because only two were
up for election in 2018). The person who lost in 2016, won in 2018. And
a 28 year old man also won a seat.

I don't think this trend will continue, I think it is a result of people changing
their minds who normally always vote Republican.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » 6 months ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
7 months ago
The NY Times had a great investigative article on how Facebook has (mis)-handled Russiagate:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/tech ... acism.html

Russian interference appears to have taken the form of Russia employing a large number of trolls to spread right-wing "information" on the internet. It's a bit amazing that this worked, but it did. I remember back around October 2016, there was a widely dispersed report that Hillary Clinton was meeting up with occultists and participating in ritualized child sacrifices.

Of note to some here who are into right-wing conspiracy theories, one of the strategies that Facebook used to defend itself was to argue that its critics were all funded by George Soros. This is apparently a general strategy that marketing companies offer: "Just blame Soros."
Me and one of my friends get called Russian bots despite using our real names to comment on Facebook. Almost no one believes those stupid and crazy conspiracy theories like thr child sacrifices by Clinton.

Now Russian bots are a thing. I've seen them, and what they do is brilliant, mainly starting the cascading assault against the politically correct left by making people on the right feel like they are not alone.

I don't like the fact that it's forced and "not real" to an extent, but still, those bots very often tell the truth (known to be a powerful weapon), and these days, 2013 seems quite far away, in the sense that back then I was still talking with my friends about how you had to be careful on social media or you would never find a job. The authoritarian left had a tight grip on us.

This is nearly gone now. Back then, they'd come down hard on the rare dissidents, flood their workplace with emails and doxx them. Today, this isn't viable anymore as the vast majority of conservative people are speaking out. And those who aren't certainly are voting.

Anyway, George Soros is a giant weasel pushing his views with tons of money. It is not a conspiracy and he's doing it in the open, he's proud of it and just says so. But still, despite the billions of dollars he invests, he's failing, and right-wing populism is winning. Because no one can bend reality to his own will. Temporarily, yes, but it kicks back and it kickbacks hard.

Facebook is a mess and they have their own ineffective strategies to control the current political narrative and their members. But again, it does not work. It is quite amusing to watch these enemies of truth and freedom cannibalize each other (the EU against Mark Zuckerberg for example) and stubbornly saw the branch on which they're sitting. You can't control others with deceit and lies, and unearned power when wielded will blow up in your face sooner or later.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 6 months ago

nameless wrote:
7 months ago
I don't even talk to Jean anymore because he's too stupid to respect enough to argue with.

He's full of shit, he's stupid, and I don't argue with him anymore because arguing with him is like arguing with a stick.
He is entitled to his opinion. It is free speech, I might not always agree with him, but who
am I to tell someone not to say it?

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 6 months ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
7 months ago
You're another dishonest degenerate who is too stupid to focus on legitimate issues that effect people (healthcare, education, wages, economic etc) so you resort to the dogshit Trump Russia nonsense which has zero evidence or even anything suggesting it as a possibility after 2 years. The evidence suggests the opposite Yettee, you cannot act as if legislative actions which harm Russia at every turn for an extended period of time still emphasise seriously the possibility of him being a foreign puppet. Not a single concession over what occurred during Obama era polices.
Trump has been trying to appeal Universal Health care for a very long time. That's just a fact.

He even said that if the Republicans won the majority in 2018, he would reverse it.

Trump has fired several FBI members (13, I believe) just for investigating Russia. The
guy who lost his Press access mentioned the "R" word.

Same with Jeff Sessions, who was at one time a big Trump supporter. He didn't stop
the investigation, and he was fired as well.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by JLBB » 6 months ago

rclark wrote:
6 months ago
Trump has been trying to appeal Universal Health care for a very long time. That's just a fact.

He even said that if the Republicans won the majority in 2018, he would reverse it.

Trump has fired several FBI members (13, I believe) just for investigating Russia. The
guy who lost his Press access mentioned the "R" word.

Same with Jeff Sessions, who was at one time a big Trump supporter. He didn't stop
the investigation, and he was fired as well.
There is no universal healthcare in the United States and never was, nor during a period of an Obama era supermajority was this attempted or desired policy. Stupid comment. A more ideal single payer system is not currently (although is increasingly in their progressive circles), and never has been a policy of the Democrats, despite it existing in the majority of first world nations.

The moron who lost his press pass refused to give up the microphone and kept speaking after it was taken away, it went on for probably over a minute. he also engaged in what legally constitutes battery against the White House intern by pushing her arm away.

The FBI members were not fired over investigating Russia, there are plenty of others still investigating Russia so this is a moot point and the investigation has never been ordered to cease or given a deadline despite the diplomatic and public chaos it causes, undermining the entirety of American Democracy, as well as costing tens of millions of dollars to investigate an issue built on a myth perpetuated by the Democrats, that they even discussed about spreading to hurt Trump in leaked emails from 2015 well before the dogshit examples of supposed Russian troll farms or hacking.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 6 months ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
6 months ago
There is no universal healthcare in the United States and never was, nor during a period of an Obama era supermajority was this attempted or desired policy. Stupid comment. A more ideal single payer system is not currently (although is increasingly in their progressive circles), and never has been a policy of the Democrats, despite it existing in the majority of first world nations.

The moron who lost his press pass refused to give up the microphone and kept speaking after it was taken away, it went on for probably over a minute. he also engaged in what legally constitutes battery against the White House intern by pushing her arm away.

The FBI members were not fired over investigating Russia, there are plenty of others still investigating Russia so this is a moot point and the investigation has never been ordered to cease or given a deadline despite the diplomatic and public chaos it causes, undermining the entirety of American Democracy, as well as costing tens of millions of dollars to investigate an issue built on a myth perpetuated by the Democrats, that they even discussed about spreading to hurt Trump in leaked emails from 2015.
There was the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans tried to repeal it, but the majority of
Americans are for it. (even Republicans).. At one time, everybody
had to be legally insured. Not necessarily the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), but they had to have
proof of insurance.

The Affordable Care Act is built on Medicare. The biggest change was that people with preexisting health
conditions could not be denied healthcare. So, basically anybody was eligible for it.

It was signed into law (voted on) in 2010. It wasn't enforced until a later time though.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by JLBB » 6 months ago

rclark wrote:
6 months ago
There was the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans tried to repeal it, but the majority of
Americans are for it. (even Republicans).. At one time, everybody
had to be legally insured. Not necessarily the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), but they had to have
proof of insurance.

The Affordable Care Act is built on Medicare. The biggest change was that people with preexisting health
conditions could not be denied healthcare. So, basically anybody was eligible for it.

It was signed into law (voted on) in 2010. It wasn't enforced until a later time though.
I know how it works better than you do and have clearly researched it more significantly in every regard, its absolutely not in any sense universal healthcare, end of story. The fundamental tie that held the system together was the individual mandate which Trump axed, 55% of the population favoured removing it. You are mistaking the fact that it allowed for those with preexisting conditions to be offered healthcare as suggesting it was "universal healthcare".

The majority of Republicans were not for the affordable care act as an ideal solution, they are for a universal single payer system, or just plain axing Obamacare which was effectively done via removing the individual mandates. The vast majority of Democrats support medicare for all over the Affordable Care Act.

Obamacare was a worst of both worlds situation. It reduced competition in the market and resulted in removal of many private plans, it was astronomically expensive, it covered very few Americans and still left many uninsured, the majority of the country hated the individual mandate, it drove up premiums extensively and costs within a short period of time amongst Obamacare and private plans, it gave too much power to insurers, and the coverage it offered was terrible in terms of global standards. It was a disaster.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » 6 months ago

JeanLucBB wrote:
6 months ago
There is no universal healthcare in the United States and never was, nor during a period of an Obama era supermajority was this attempted or desired policy. Stupid comment. A more ideal single payer system is not currently (although is increasingly in their progressive circles), and never has been a policy of the Democrats, despite it existing in the majority of first world nations.

The moron who lost his press pass refused to give up the microphone and kept speaking after it was taken away, it went on for probably over a minute. he also engaged in what legally constitutes battery against the White House intern by pushing her arm away.

The FBI members were not fired over investigating Russia, there are plenty of others still investigating Russia so this is a moot point and the investigation has never been ordered to cease or given a deadline despite the diplomatic and public chaos it causes, undermining the entirety of American Democracy, as well as costing tens of millions of dollars to investigate an issue built on a myth perpetuated by the Democrats, that they even discussed about spreading to hurt Trump in leaked emails from 2015 well before the dogshit examples of supposed Russian troll farms or hacking.
No, it's not just Democrats. Jess Sessions is a Republican, and was a Trump Supporter.
Jeff Sessions was fired because he did not remove the Russia investigation. That's all there is
to it.

Even if it is Democrats saying things, they have to be proven true in a court of law. They cannot
just say things without any proof. In the U.S. a person is innocent until proven guilty. That's the
way the system has always works, and has always worked. It's not without flaws, but that is the way it is.

The fact is, even Trump's lawyer for fifteen years is going to prison. His lawyer snitched on
Trump, and has tape recorded evidence of their conversations. So, it's not just a "Democratic
conspiracy" theory.

Now as far as Medicare is concerned, George W Bush did a lot to improve it. Not sure what you
mean when you say the Democrats didn't support it? Hillary Clinton, even if you don't like her
(many people don't), was always supporting Universal Health Care. Always. That was her
stand in 2008, when she ran against Obama.

The only Democratic Presidential candidate who did not support it was John Edwards. Obama
supported it from the beginning.

I never liked John Edwards. In fact, if he would have won the primary,
I would have voted Republican.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by JLBB » 6 months ago

rclark wrote:
6 months ago
No, it's not just Democrats. Jess Sessions is a Republican, and was a Trump Supporter.

Even if it is Democrats saying things, they have to be proven true in a court of law. They cannot
just say things without any proof. In the U.S. a person is innocent until proven guilty. That's the
way the system has always worked. It's not without flaws, but that is the way it is.

The fact is, even Trump's lawyer for fifteen years is going to prison. His lawyer snitched on
Trump, and has tape recorded evidence of their conversations. So, it's not just a "Democratic
conspiracy" theory.

Now as far as Medicare is concerned, George W Bush did a lot to improve it.
"The fact is, even Trump's lawyer for fifteen years is going to prison. His lawyer snitched on
Trump, and has tape recorded evidence of their conversations. So, it's not just a "Democratic
conspiracy" theory."

What does this have to do with Trump colluding with Russia or working for Russian interests? Absolutely nothing. I would actually be surprised if he hasn't broken ANY laws in some regard over the course of his entire business and political career, but this is a long way from the aforementioned Russia dogshit. The Australian Labor party for example broke US law due to election meddling via aiding in financing and resources for certain Democrats during the election, were charged and paid a fine for it, no one cared or cares however.

The question is whether there are foreign interests that compromise his ability to lead the country, at this point to suggest that is the case is a baseless conspiracy. The Hillary campaign were the ones that suggested pushing the narrative in private emails in 2015, prior to any mentions or assertions ANYWHERE of hacks, Russian trolls or collusion.

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