Making sense of the current political climate

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JeanLucBB
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by JeanLucBB » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:30 pm
I actually think it was left wing YouTubers that got me in to the right, ironically enough but not surprising. That's actually a major aspect I had overlooked in my description of my "red pill journey" in the post above, it actually all started for me from when I found Liberal YouTube channels.

I actually wanted to engage in my hatred of Trump by understanding more about why I hate him, I particularly liked Sam Seder (not that well known), David Pakman, I do think Secular Talk is closer to sanity than say Young Turks, but they're all going to push you away from the left. Leftists don't even realise how much they push support from the left, and increasingly I see videos being posted from people about "why I left the Left", and the reason?

Liberal ideology is becoming more about extremism. The core principals don't really matter anymore, as long as you are being more and more progressive (or what they view as "progressive") it's not enough to welcome immigration, you have to like all forms of immigration, including breaking the law and encouraging migrants to make dangerous life threatening journeys to get near the border. You have to believe that current illegals should be able to vote, basically just give them all of the rights, let the problems from their own country be exported to yours. If you don't see it this way you are heartless. You need to feel just as extreme on issues such as socialism, and LGBT rights, if you show even a flicker of disagreement or questioning then you are scum. Antifa should have their way with you, and although most won't admit it publicly, of course they absolutely condone that sort of violence, we need to kill the Nazi's before they kill us!!

I mentioned Pakman before and he's a very popular Liberal youtuber/presenter, and formerly very reasonable. In the last year his popularity is declining, and as a result I can't believe how extreme and sensationalist his videos are becoming. Desperate to disagree strongly with anything remotely right of Bernie Sanders.

An actual example of people being pushed from the Left would be Lindsay Shepherd, who was very much a Liberal even after the left publicly screwed her over, she still insisted that she's "progressive" and found Jordan Peterson to be too right wing for her to agree with. 6 months on? "Why I left the Left" because by even being tolerant towards Peterson, hearing his side in online streams and debates (with others as well like Dave Rubin) she got death threats for being a Nazi, even though she was publicly arguing Liberal causes. She then started to see that not only is the Liberal company not worth keeping, but the issues themselves are insane and not worth arguing for. A similar thing happened to me, I firstly realised that the people who represented my political views are seeming increasingly insane, and then it started to hurt me that they haven't actually thought through their own beliefs. From there right wingers not only seemed "cooler" as part of the counter culture (relatable people like Crowder, Paul Joseph Watson, Gavin McInnes) but their arguments are so well rounded in comparison, Dems just kept looking more and more hilariously insane.

So that's how even Liberals are being pushed away, but is there any chance of Trump supporters crossing over? Fucking lol no way. Any time I try to have a reasonable conversation with a Liberal I instantly get so much shit for even remotely not thinking Trump is a total Nazi, even if I completely disagree with Trump on a particular issue but understand somewhat why he comes to such a conclusion, that's not good enough. It's too tolerant. You are back to square one, because they won't even pretend to listen or tolerate you unless you denounce everything about Trump and the current Republican party.

You covered some specific policies in your post and really, the most realistic danger is a Bernie clone taking over for nomination. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was simply just too dumb to really catch fire, and it was a hilarious few months of her popping up on the news, but she just got exposed so much that even the Left couldn't stand by her. But I would still absolutely love if she made a run for nomination, the Dems would screw over her chances before even getting real consideration by the public (much like they did with Bernie) but hey, a man can dream.

And brilliantly it still appears that fucking Hilldawg is the Dems best chance or most likely nominee. I've seen regularly in polls this year that she comes out way ahead of Biden or Bernie with regards to who Dems would most like to run (a few of these polls had her at nearly a third of the vote, with Biden way behind on like 10 or 12 percent).

https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists ... party/amp/

I mean really, so desperate.

Do you think losing the House tomorrow will even matter? I have a few reasons I think that it could possibly benefit Trump. He's struggling to get things through the House anyway, it definitely can't hurt him, if anything just gives him something to blame.

If Pelosi is the Speaker that is also absolutely perfect for him. She is the biggest advertisement for everything wrong with batshit crazy Liberals these days, this will only alienate her own party and it's support.

"
Liberal ideology is becoming more about extremism. The core principals don't really matter anymore, as long as you are being more and more progressive (or what they view as "progressive") it's not enough to welcome immigration, you have to like all forms of immigration, including breaking the law and encouraging migrants to make dangerous life threatening journeys to get near the border. You have to believe that current illegals should be able to vote, basically just give them all of the rights, let the problems from their own country be exported to yours. "

This is another area where I find the NPC meme fares so well. Certainly in terms of outcomes the core principals don't matter anymore, but more specifically it genuinely appears that they will oppose ANYTHING to the far opposite that is advocated by Trump or Republicans, much of which such as on immigration or government climate change action is common sense.

I do feel the midterms are a win/win for Trump. If he loses the house there is still potential for direction on infrastructure and healthcare, the only thing I (and his base) would miss is the potential for a border wall and a harder line on immigration policies. Pelosi as speaker and more people to blame is certainly another benefit. Overall I wouldn't be concerned with a halted Trump agenda, its certainly better than one implemented by Cortez or the Bernie wing of the Democrats and I think most could rest easy over it.

Interesting you mention Sam Seder and Pakman, probably my least favourite political commentators on the internet. Pakman in particular scares me because he's obviously an incredibly intelligent person who gives off such an air of rationality and reason particularly in his interviews, however more so than any has gone off the rails on the Russia issue and can casually say with a straight face on an issue like Kavanaugh that the mere fact a woman makes a rape claim makes it believable because they have nothing to gain. For such an intelligent person, how can he have somehow missed the 850 grand in Go Fund Me money she racked up plus widespread acclaim from one political half of the country? Or that you should automatically believe the accuser but not the accused even if there is no physical evidence to back this up. I don't think I've seen a better litmus test for horrifically dishonest liberal bias in my life which is why I did enjoy the whole Kavanugh saga because of how revealing it was. Worst of all on Pakman he absolutely blew my mind when saying that beyond reasonable doubt shouldn't matter in accusations of sexual assault or rape. How the fuck can a rational person think this even for a moment?

The "pragmatist" support of Republican light candidates like Hillary makes it incredibly hard to support them as honest people either. Sam Seder literally suggested that voting for Trump over Hillary (blatantly centre-right on policy in every single issue and more hawkish on foreign policy than Trump) was "giving away our Democracy" and allowing "authoritarianism" to prosper. Again like Pakman's claims on Kavanaugh, how can anyone listen to this and take them seriously? Secular talk is one of my favourite commentators and I probably watch him more than anyone, but he's too easily manipulated by data or claims from those that hold up his world view, and I don't think he's smart enough to genuinely process serious issues on economics for example.


There's just truly no one I can whole hardheartedly support on the left. Even if I prefer their desired outcomes the majority of the time they lack any interest in responsibility and can't simply be honest any more, virtue signalling is their highest ideal.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:14 am

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:24 pm
Oh ok, thanks for explaining that. It might have been obvious ...


They look bad because they lost, and they also look bad because identity politics is simply not a political winner. In the long run they're unlikely to win jack shit unless they re-incorporate poor whites as part of their coalition.

I believe that they don't want to do this, because they also want to be the party that Wall Street and Silicon Valley donate money to. So they try and win by energizing various minority groups and hoping that they can raise their turnout rate faster than the GOP can raise the turnout rate among their own groups.

It might work here and there in isolated examples, and in fact it has, but I don't see it working in general, and in fact it hasn't.

One thing that could help the democrats, for example, is if a nutjub decides to go kill 200 people with his guns before Election Day. That usually gets them good press. On the other hand, if somebody shoots a police officer, I'd expect that the opposite will happen.

And they have issues with extremism too. For example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won in New York and soon thereafter started screaming about abolishing ICE, which is insane. Shit like that hurts democratic candidates in other parts of the country. She's an idiot. Not only is she wrong about ICE needing to be shut down but she also should have kept that moronic position to herself after she won her election. Instead she went into places like Iowa screaming that bs. But I still voted straight democrat this time, which I've never done before, because it was necessary at this moment in history.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:03 am

Hairblues wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:52 pm
You’re so full of shit because if it was opposite situation and he took one and she didn’t, you would be pulling random articles that support polys.
People from different countries probably think that he is being on trial for something, but he's not.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by yettee » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:48 am

Rudiger wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:30 pm
Liberal ideology is becoming more about extremism. The core principals don't really matter anymore, as long as you are being more and more progressive (or what they view as "progressive") it's not enough to welcome immigration, you have to like all forms of immigration, including breaking the law and encouraging migrants to make dangerous life threatening journeys to get near the border. You have to believe that current illegals should be able to vote, basically just give them all of the rights, let the problems from their own country be exported to yours. If you don't see it this way you are heartless. You need to feel just as extreme on issues such as socialism, and LGBT rights, if you show even a flicker of disagreement or questioning then you are scum. Antifa should have their way with you, and although most won't admit it publicly, of course they absolutely condone that sort of violence, we need to kill the Nazi's before they kill us!!
What do ya'll think about what happened in Pittsburgh, how does it jibe with the above? I know that the mail issue from the week before was described as fake news, a conspiracy...same? Not interested in any kind of debate about this, just curious what you think.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Rudiger » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:01 pm

yettee wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:48 am
What do ya'll think about what happened in Pittsburgh, how does it jibe with the above? I know that the mail issue from the week before was described as fake news, a conspiracy...same? Not interested in any kind of debate about this, just curious what you think.
I think it was Donald Trump's fault for using hate speech and inspiring a right wing nutcase to sending those bombs.

But on the other hand, it's also Donald Trump's fault for using hate speech and antagonising and inspiring a never-Trumper in to shooting all those people.

Really though, random acts of madness like the Pittsburgh shooter, you can't possibly draw a correlation between left or right wing politicians, news sources, supporters/members. This idea that Trump consistently sends these signals and winks and nods to terrorists is ridiculous, but also so is thinking that CNN calling Trump a fascist every other day is going to also result in someone killing a bunch of people.

I will say however if we're talking about mob acts of violence and destruction, mainstream media has contributed to the spread of Antifa. I know it doesn't seem like much of a jump to go from saying some form of violence was inspired, to saying extreme acts of violence were, but that's still personally where I stand.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:08 am

Democrats lost big in the U.S. Senate races tonight but ABC is reporting that democrats have won the House tonight.

With the democrats winning the House we can finally have a real effort to get to the bottom of possible Team-Trump/Russia collusion. The US Congress will have enough power to uncover the facts and leak them to the world. Remember, the leader of the US is under a cloud of suspicion about colluding with a hostile foreign power so we must find out the truth for ourselves here in America, and also for our allies throughout the world. If he's innocent I'll go on about my business but if he's guilty I'll want him impeached AND punished. VP Mike Pence can take over if Trump has to go.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by kj6723 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:47 am

The latest on the Kavanaugh accusers is pretty fucking sickening. Dr. Ford now the only one left who hasn’t been completely discredited

I hope the proven frauds are prosecuted to deter this kind of shit in the future


We kept the Senate. Conflicting info on whether the House went to the dems or is still up for grabs

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Uncle Grandfather » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:29 am

nameless wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:14 am
And they have issues with extremism too. For example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won in New York and soon thereafter started screaming about abolishing ICE, which is insane. Shit like that hurts democratic candidates in other parts of the country. She's an idiot. Not only is she wrong about ICE needing to be shut down but she also should have kept that moronic position to herself after she won her election. Instead she went into places like Iowa screaming that bs. But I still voted straight democrat this time, which I've never done before, because it was necessary at this moment in history.
This is a pretty impressive display of cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:40 am

Uncle Grandfather wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:29 am
This is a pretty impressive display of cognitive dissonance.
How exactly am I displaying cognitive dissonance?
Last edited by nameless on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:53 am

kj6723 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:47 am
The latest on the Kavanaugh accusers is pretty fucking sickening. Dr. Ford now the only one left who hasn’t been completely discredited

I hope the proven frauds are prosecuted to deter this kind of shit in the future


We kept the Senate. Conflicting info on whether the House went to the dems or is still up for grabs

A lot of news sources are now reporting that the democrats definitely won the House.

When you say that you hope the "proven frauds" in connection with the Kavanaugh hearing are prosecuted does that include Judge Kavanaugh himself if he lied under oath about what "boofing" means, and what "renate alumni" means, and what "Devil's Triangle" means, and his claim that he never drank so much he passed out and/or couldn't remember what happened the night before?
Last edited by nameless on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:48 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Rudiger » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:53 am

Pelosi is speaker, a merry band of retards just got elected and their Captain is Ocasio-Cortez, break out the popcorn.

I'll be honest, even if I've written about the advantages of actually losing the House, I'm still disappointed, however I do need to acknowledge the amount of entertainment that's coming up, week in and week out.

There is some amount of mileage in this Democratic party, and that at least I am thankful for.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Uncle Grandfather » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 am

nameless wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:40 am
How exactly am I displaying cognitive dissonance?
"I don't like it when this high profile Democrat whose talking points are the same as those of 99% of modern day Democrat politicians speaks her mind."

"by the way I voted straight Democrat!! :D"
Rudiger wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:53 am
Pelosi is speaker, a merry band of retards just got elected and their Captain is Ocasio-Cortez, break out the popcorn.

I'll be honest, even if I've written about the advantages of actually losing the House, I'm still disappointed, however I do need to acknowledge the amount of entertainment that's coming up, week in and week out.

There is some amount of mileage in this Democratic party, and that at least I am thankful for.
It's not that surprising. Since 1982, the ruling party has always lost the House. Even conservative pundits were predicting the Democrats would gain 40 or so seats this election. I'm more surprised they didn't get 2/3 of the House or the Senate with how unpopular Trump is.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by nameless » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:25 am

Uncle Grandfather wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 am
"I don't like it when this high profile Democrat whose talking points are the same as those of 99% of modern day Democrat politicians speaks her mind."

"by the way I voted straight Democrat!! :D"


It's not that surprising. Since 1982, the ruling party has always lost the House. Even conservative pundits were predicting the Democrats would gain 40 or so seats this election. I'm more surprised they didn't get 2/3 of the House or the Senate with how unpopular Trump is.
The democrats ran on Obamacare but that's not why I voted for them. I voted democratic because USA citizens need to learn the truth about whether or not Team-Trump was involved with Russians during the 2016 campaign. That's the only reason I voted all democrat. The republicans ran on anti-immigration and strong borders. I agree with the republicans on those 2 issues but I felt that the possibility of Team Trump being involved with Russia during the 2016 elections is a more important issue. in my opinion the possibility that Team-Trump colluded with the Russians is the number 1 issue of the midterms.

Regarding the election results - we aren't sure of the election results yet. As it stands right now here is how the democrats/republicans did in the midterms.

* US Senate - democrats have 46 seats and republicans have 51. Republicans definitely have control of the senate and they will increase their number of seats by somewhere between 1 and 4 seats since there are 3 senate elections still to be determined.

* US house - democrats have 225 and republicans have 197. The democrats have definitely won the house but there are still numerous seats to be decided. They may have only won a small majority but nobody will know for days or weeks.

* US governors. Democrats have won at least 7 governor seats and Republicans have lost at least 7 governor seats. There are at least 2 more governor seats to be decided, one in Florida and one in Georgia.

*State seats - The democrats have won roughly 350 state seats and the republicans have lost roughly 350 state steats.
Last edited by nameless on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:44 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by rclark » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:31 pm

yettee wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:48 am
What do ya'll think about what happened in Pittsburgh, how does it jibe with the above? I know that the mail issue from the week before was described as fake news, a conspiracy...same? Not interested in any kind of debate about this, just curious what you think.
I can't talk about this subject, because I said I would stay out of it.

Of course, you know where I stand on it.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:23 am

These Wisconsin high school students are in the news:

Image

I figured that this would happen eventually, though not because of Trump. Nazism, Hitler, etc are now creatures of the history books. We still have a few WWII survivors, but not many, and kids now are not even the grandkids but the great grandkids of those who fought in the war.

Few these days are outraged if you make fun of victims of ancient wars, and eventually this will be the case for the victims of WWII as well. The emotional impact of wars lasts a few generations, but not more than that.

The guy on the top right who didn't do the salute is apparently a non-popular loner. So he's the exception that proves the rule.

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