Making sense of the current political climate

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by That Guy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:21 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:18 pm
We need not be angry at each other in here, as there are no actual policymakers here. We're just private citizens with incomplete knowledge of all of the facts and zero actual political power.

I used to be angry about the world going to shit. On some level I still am, but I can't afford to be really, as there's nothing that I can do to stop it if I'm right.

I do think that everyone here wants a better overall outcome for the general population.
All you can do is vote, is the way I see it

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Hairblues » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:26 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:59 pm
Not to take away from my apology because it was out of order and not justified, but I also was emo about some of the things you said (I already specified previously so no need to dwell on it) and reacted badly because here in Ireland and also the culture in most of the UK, Liberal is definitely not an insult. Anything Trump related definitely is, in fact anything other than repeatedly calling him an idiot and a Nazi is proof that you're literally Hitler. Even if someone was to hate him, morally think he's a bigot, sexist, everything, but also still think he must have some form of intelligence - stop there, that's supporting a fascist. Not good enough.

So I'm always hearing stuff about him and nobody really wants to talk about it in detail, just say he's separating brown kids from their parents he must be a Nazi, so you have another take on this, but of course they don't want to hear. It sounds like you're justifying a horrific dictator, end of story.

Maybe being called liberal or libtard might be hurtful in some contexts, but being constantly seen as a Nazi is really awful too. So I'm very sensitive when talking about these things or in this case reading posts, if I feel there's a hint of assumptions or talking about the right as if it's thoughtless and uncaring in all ways, I am very responsive to that.

I definitely don’t think you or anyone else here is Nazis or even close to that
If I gave you that impression I’m very sorry.

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:30 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:59 pm
Not to take away from my apology because it was out of order and not justified, but I also was emo about some of the things you said (I already specified previously so no need to dwell on it) and reacted badly because here in Ireland and also the culture in most of the UK, Liberal is definitely not an insult. Anything Trump related definitely is, in fact anything other than repeatedly calling him an idiot and a Nazi is proof that you're literally Hitler. Even if someone was to hate him, morally think he's a bigot, sexist, everything, but also still think he must have some form of intelligence - stop there, that's supporting a fascist. Not good enough.

So I'm always hearing stuff about him and nobody really wants to talk about it in detail, just say he's separating brown kids from their parents he must be a Nazi, so you have another take on this, but of course they don't want to hear. It sounds like you're justifying a horrific dictator, end of story.

Maybe being called liberal or libtard might be hurtful in some contexts, but being constantly seen as a Nazi is really awful too. So I'm very sensitive when talking about these things or in this case reading posts, if I feel there's a hint of assumptions or talking about the right as if it's thoughtless and uncaring in all ways, I am very responsive to that.
Chris Arnade has written a lot of articles of his experiences driving across the country speaking to Trump supporters. He's a former PhD, Wall Street millionaire, etc who decided to spend some time exploring the country to understand it better.

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Rudiger » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:40 pm

Hairblues wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:26 pm
I definitely don’t think you or anyone else here is Nazis or even close to that
If I gave you that impression I’m very sorry.
Ah no I was just using the Nazi word a bit facetiously, but representing that anyone even tolerating Trump must be bigoted or fascist in some sense. That's fine.
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:30 pm
Chris Arnade has written a lot of articles of his experiences driving across the country speaking to Trump supporters. He's a former PhD, Wall Street millionaire, etc who decided to spend some time exploring the country to understand it better.
And he's Democrat? Sounds interesting
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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:40 pm
And he's Democrat? Sounds interesting
I agree that the type of hysteria on the left seen recently is obscurantist and melodramatic. For example:


That said, there are still many writers, thinkers, etc who are interested in genuinely understanding things, and who sometimes have the ability to do so. Some explore the constituencies that voted for Obama twice and then Trump to see how they're peculiar.

Let's assume hypothetically that Trump is Hitler. I know that this offends you, but let's assume that the analogy holds. If it's true, we know that Hitler was preceded by the treaty of Versailles, by the French occupation of the Rhineland, and by Weimar's hyperinflation. Historians agree that these factors contributed. How, then, can Trump be Hitler if the Obama era was the most unparalleled period of peace, prosperity, love, and happiness in the history of the world?

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Rudiger » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:13 am

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm
I agree that the type of hysteria on the left seen recently is obscurantist and melodramatic. For example:


That said, there are still many writers, thinkers, etc who are interested in genuinely understanding things, and who sometimes have the ability to do so. Some explore the constituencies that voted for Obama twice and then Trump to see how they're peculiar.

Let's assume hypothetically that Trump is Hitler. I know that this offends you, but let's assume that the analogy holds. If it's true, we know that Hitler was preceded by the treaty of Versailles, by the French occupation of the Rhineland, and by Weimar's hyperinflation. Historians agree that these factors contributed. How, then, can Trump be Hitler if the Obama era was the most unparalleled period of peace, prosperity, love, and happiness in the history of the world?
I understand but in that contradiction would be giving credit to the idea that Trump must be Hitler, but if it trips up the logic of someone who actually thinks the country went from the "heights" of Obama then sure. I just don't think this is a popular opinion, I think someday the left will look back on Obama as a great president, possibly, but that isn't a popular opinion right now.

I expected with every policy proposal Trump made we'd be seeing articles and speeches about how he's undoing all the great work of a great man, I'm not getting that. Even if we look at the scrapping of the Iran deal, there were a few CNN articles but nobody truly cared in the long run, it was a bogus deal and everyone knew it (although Bibi's "evidence" was also laughably bogus) so within a week it's all forgotten about. Before his term started I thought that would be the type of deal scrappage that would have the left in turmoil over him right up to the next election, but it's a minor footnote of his presidency.

I think he already has the next election, if not by his own actions (and I don't defend everything he does, but he is shaping up to be in a popular position come election time) but by the lack of competition the Democrats have to offer. I couldn't believe recently when I saw Hilldawg being pushed largely in a few opinion polls, as to who should run against Trump, and their idea is the disastrous Clinton to immediately just try again (and she was in quite a lead for most of the polls I saw). It's laughable.

Other than that, Creepy Joe Biden and Comrade Bernie were the only other 2 that had more than a few percent votes in each opinion poll. I know opinion polls can be meaningless but really, Joe and Bernie are such bad options themselves, I can sort of see why they'd want Hilary? As insane as that is, there's nothing else.

I mentioned a woman a few weeks ago called Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who had a major upset victory, defeating Joe Crowley (also one of the most relevant Democrats). She's a democratic socialist and does literally nothing but spew ideas of rainbows and free things, I've now watched several of her televised interviews and I still don't know what she actually wants. This was not surprisingly the biggest brown nosing one which made her completely ethereal:



If someone finds a policy in there then let me know, all I heard was the most blatant rhetoric tactics and the crowd absolutely loving it.

I didn't think people would fall so easily for something like this, a young energetic charlatan. I think the left would hail this as a new beginning, a bright future, in reality this is disastrous for them, she'll get eaten up in any debate or hard line of questioning. She keeps talking about the working class (and including Bernie as being part of it lol) and she's not remotely working class, this type of thing alone will kill her, and just like Hilary once the left feel she has any momentum, they'll drag her over the finishing line.

EDIT: Just clicked through it again, around 3:40 she explained that there's a huge difference between socialism and democratic socialism (there isn't, not even at all in terms of the ideology behind it, democratic socialism simply calls for reorganizing how to implement the ideology) and that explanation issss.... "In a moral and wealthy modern America - no person should be too poor to live" I mean what the actual fuck. And huge raptures of applause to follow it.

That was it! That was the explanation. Is it possible this girl tried campaigning for the hell of it and actually doesn't have a clue about politics or anything at all? Like, she's been famous for a few weeks now, it sounds like she hasn't even read a wiki page about her own political stances.
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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by pjhair » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 am

Hairblues wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:17 pm
Nothing about my post was disrespectful to him it wa genuine curiosity based on several years of discussions with him and a reply to his post to me.
and he didn’t even bother to answer it.
You did and he liked what you posted as well.
The thing about liking posts is that we do it a lot of times even when we don't agree everything in the post. If a post has more things that I agree with than I disagree, I end up liking it. Hence liking a post shouldn't be seen as explicit endorsement of everything said in the post. In fact I find it so meaningless that I don't even bother checking who is liking my opponents posts when I am in a debate.

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by pjhair » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:00 am

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm
That said, there are still many writers, thinkers, etc who are interested in genuinely understanding things, and who sometimes have the ability to do so. Some explore the constituencies that voted for Obama twice and then Trump to see how they're peculiar.
I agree. It's supported by available data and surveys as well. Most people, including liberals, don't agree with SJW's on a lot of issues.

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:17 am

pjhair wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 am
The thing about liking posts is that we do it a lot of times even when we don't agree everything in the post. If a post has more things that I agree with than I disagree, I end up liking it. Hence liking a post shouldn't be seen as explicit endorsement of everything said in the post. In fact I find it so meaningless that I don't even bother checking who is liking my opponents posts when I am in a debate.
On HairLossTalk, I actually removed likes and dislikes from my notifications. I did it for a different reason though: I was embarrassed that I cared. The other reason is that it saved time by reducing the number of notifications. Being quoted is a lot more valuable than being liked, and I did want to read from everybody who had bothered to write back to me.

There is a function to likes that is independent. If somebody else is scrolling down the page, they have an incentive to stop and read the post with a lot of likes.

However, on this forum, people sometimes leave a two-word comment with their likes, and some of these are nice to read.
Last edited by Afro_Vacancy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Joe Rogan talks about baldness

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:18 am

We did in fact once have a nazi among us.

Remember Rick?

He suggested that the media's campaign against blue-eyed beauty in men was part of a Jewish conspiracy to reduce the sexual desirability of gentile men.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Hairblues » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:58 am

pjhair wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 am
The thing about liking posts is that we do it a lot of times even when we don't agree everything in the post. If a post has more things that I agree with than I disagree, I end up liking it. Hence liking a post shouldn't be seen as explicit endorsement of everything said in the post. In fact I find it so meaningless that I don't even bother checking who is liking my opponents posts when I am in a debate.
It’s fine I’m over it. :)

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 am

This thread should have been split a long time ago.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but thanks @blackg for actually starting this very interesting and intense discussion :p.

It wouldn't have gone so far without @MadScientist either, so please, don't leave! We need the whole political spectrum here :) (well maybe not the radical SJW's, but blackg kind of plays the devil's advocate for them).

I'd hate this place to turn into a subreddit like The_Donald or The Red Pill: "Oh I agree with you! I agree with you too! Well said! I was thinking the same!" Well no shit.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Arjen » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:54 am

I was going to write this in the potential-thread yesterday: what this forum is missing is controversy.

There was that football forum with lots of users, lots of disagreements. There was disdain, contemption for a large number of them, so that around 40 of us built a separate forum. The “quality” was just too high, people were too agreeable with each other. It made you realize that the very fact of feeling superior, winning arguments, facing reckless challenges were subconsciously part of the fun on the much bigger forum. I guess it’s mainly a matter of size to achieve, let’s say, diversity.

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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by Admin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:27 am

Arjen wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:54 am
I was going to write this in the potential-thread yesterday: what this forum is missing is controversy.

There was that football forum with lots of users, lots of disagreements. There was disdain, contemption for a large number of them, so that around 40 of us built a separate forum. The “quality” was just too high, people were too agreeable with each other. It made you realize that the very fact of feeling superior, winning arguments, facing reckless challenges were subconsciously part of the fun on the much bigger forum. I guess it’s mainly a matter of size to achieve, let’s say, diversity.
You can see what happened to HairlossTalk after losing its most passionate (and controversial I guess) posters. Now not only is the forum a borefest but it's like the opinions and level of analysis regressed to what it was even before I and the other posters came along. And the mods are actually going along with what those obviously blue-pilled hair loss sufferers.

LastSamurai especially comes to mind, go read his posts now, one post he's saying that balding is not that bad and it makes him look more alpha (lol), that growing a beard did the trick, that he should shave his head to be free (slybaldguys nonsense) and the next post he becomes depressed, realizes that he was coping and says that balding sucks, that it's hard on him mentally, that maybe he should get SMP, etc. Rinse and repeat.

If I was there, I would chime in and tell him what I know based on my own experience: stop torturing yourself and just admit that balding sucks, that it's destroying his looks and that he should do everything in his power to either keep the hair he has or restore it with hair transplants, instead of getting stuck in this loop. And you don't see anyone challenging him, even Wolf Pack casually drops a like on his posts because he doesn't want to lose one of the last articulate posters on the forum. And in-between those posts, you get the occasional black-pill sluthater post "balding iz death lol just LDAR" coupled with the picture of a fullhead male model. Boring.

I see those poor people making what I perceive to be mistakes, and I can't call them out, and no one is doing it because members who are truly experienced with hair loss are just not there anymore, and it pains me to see posts about things that have been settled a long time ago, like the fact that if you found your way through that kind of forum, it is very, very unlikely that you're just going to be able to shave it off and move on with your life.

That's an opinion that's considered controversial in the real world as the default solution is to shave it off and move on. If you do anything else, you must be weak, sick or unmanly. To go back on topic: yes, you need a broad diversity of opinions, even extreme sometimes to keep the conversation vivid and interesting. Fighting verbally, even sometimes harshly should not be seen as a bad thing that should be prevented from happening to keep everyone's feelings protected. That's what HairlossTalk was doing right a few years ago, allowing the conversation to go on despite explosive fights.

The fact that people like @Hairblues , @Rudiger , @Afro_Vacancy, me and others fought dirty and made up afterwards seems like a miracle in today's society but it should be encouraged as the default. To me there's no greater way to evolve and improve your own worldview, that is if you're willing to learn. For example, yesterday when Rudiger told me that my opinion about Muslims all being ready to fight to subjugate the West at the drop of a hat was a bit extreme, it made me think, and I'm probably going to nuance my thinking soon.

I know words can hurt like hell, but in the end, it's nothing compared to the alternative in the real world, which is to fight physically and often with dire consequences. And as Hairblues said, what's important here is that even after the dirtiest verbal fights, you're still able to make up and shake hands.
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Re: Making sense of the current political climate

Post by pjhair » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:55 am

Admin wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 am
It wouldn't have gone so far without @MadScientist either, so please, don't leave! We need the whole political spectrum here :) (well maybe not the radical SJW's, but blackg kind of plays the devil's advocate for them).
I agree. I wanted to post about it yesterday but I wanted to find a study, known as Devner study(if my memory serves me), whose finding supports what I am about to say. The study shows how people who only interact with people they agree with and don't hear opposing view points tend to get more and more extreme over time. So @MadScientist don't leave. For yours and ours sake. I sometime worry about falling into the same trap. In fact, I believe if SJW's start to hang out with conservative more, many of them will abandon many of the extreme positions they hold. Humans have strong tribal instincts hence we should constantly logically and dispassionately evaluate our positions so as to not start the downward slide to irrational positions fueled by absence of opposing views. Hence I think you, HairBlues and Afro_Vacancy play a very important role of presenting the other side.

Also, please ignore if I came across aggressive. I assure you I mean no disrespect to you. I tend to get very passionate in these discussions. That is something I need to work on.

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