The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

#25643

Post by EvilLocks » 3 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 3 weeks ago I'm pretty sure this is what is considered an attempt at moving the goal post.
You didn't ask me a single question as far as I can tell, so how was it an attempt to change the subject? (if that is what "moving the goal post" means)
You're welcome to ask me a direct question if you feel like it, and I'll give you a direct answer. Until then, I post exactly what I feel like.

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JLBB wrote: 3 weeks ago The difference is that the N word referenced a trait someone is born with, slut refers to a behaviour which a large percentage of the population, particularly women view as normal and a totally legitimate expression of self but previously was looked at as negative. If there's nothing wrong with the behaviour then the word should cease being offensive.
Of course it is offensive when it is meant offensive? When a guy calls a girl a slut or a cum bucket, it is never meant as something positive or even neutral. No matter if these are traits she's not born with the man is basically saying than unless a woman conforms to his ideal picture of what a woman should be, he finds her disgusting or unworthy, all while believing that a man who does the exact same is some kind of hero BECAUSE NATURE.
Some people forget that humans are different than animals in the sense that we don't only act on instinct, but we have the ability to think for ourselves and make decisions accordingly, in contrast to animals who act purely on instinct. If you look at the animal kingdom, sure it is natural for males to spread their seeds as much as possible but not so much for the females who are taking care of their babies.
Humans on the other hand, think for themselves, and are able to make the decision that fits them the most. It is not unnatural for a woman to sleep with many guys if that is what she truly wants.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by JLBB » 3 weeks ago

blackg wrote: 3 weeks ago Someone who swings both ways. Meaning I can picture HB giving as well as receiving.

I wouldn't like to meet her in the bedroom, she'd ruin me.
You’re too much of a beta to even get pegged by her.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by blackg » 3 weeks ago

EvilLocks wrote: 3 weeks ago You didn't ask me a single question as far as I can tell, so how was it an attempt to change the subject? (if that is what "moving the goal post" means)
You're welcome to ask me a direct question if you feel like it, and I'll give you a direct answer. Until then, I post exactly what I feel like.

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Of course it is offensive when it is meant offensive? When a guy calls a girl a slut or a cum bucket, it is never meant as something positive or even neutral. No matter if these are traits she's not born with the man is basically saying than unless a woman conforms to his ideal picture of what a woman should be, he finds her disgusting or unworthy, all while believing that a man who does the exact same is some kind of hero BECAUSE NATURE.
Some people forget that humans are different than animals in the sense that we don't only act on instinct, but we have the ability to think for ourselves and make decisions accordingly, in contrast to animals who act purely on instinct. If you look at the animal kingdom, sure it is natural for males to spread their seeds as much as possible but not so much for the females who are taking care of their babies.
Humans on the other hand, think for themselves, and are able to make the decision that fits them the most. It is not unnatural for a woman to sleep with many guys if that is what she truly wants.
The only men to utter the slut word are either jealous or totally sexless. In other words: they haven't been invited to the party and it stings.

These men are not my friends.
Me and my friends are like, double-whiskey-coke-no-ice.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by JLBB » 3 weeks ago

blackg wrote: 3 weeks ago The only men to utter the slut word are either jealous or totally sexless. In other words: they haven't been invited to the party and it stings.

These men are not my friends.
Simplord.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by Guest-2 » 3 weeks ago

EvilLocks wrote: 3 weeks ago You didn't ask me a single question as far as I can tell, so how was it an attempt to change the subject? (if that is what "moving the goal post" means)
You're welcome to ask me a direct question if you feel like it, and I'll give you a direct answer. Until then, I post exactly what I feel like.
No one has said you can't post what you feel like, but nice way to imply I have suggested otherwise.

You have moved the goal post of my original comment from your very first quote of it by continuously deflecting back to Pat's views.

I don't have a direct question for you as I'm not really interested in your further opinions on the subjects we've already addressed. You pontificated for many pages before I made a single post. I know your view points already, and I expressed my opinion on them.

I find it hard to believe anyone, (including youself), read my initial post and genuinly believes the point of it was that I somehow am supporting Pat's opinions on women.

I have no interest in fighting with you mainly because I don't have the time to spend on someone who is so conveniently 'misunderstanding' every post I'm making :lol:

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by EvilLocks » 3 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 3 weeks ago No one has said you can't post what you feel like, but nice way to imply I have suggested otherwise.

You have moved the goal post of my original comment from your very first quote of it by continuously deflecting back to Pat's views.

I don't have a direct question for you as I'm not really interested in your further opinions on the subjects we've already addressed. You pontificated for many pages before I made a single post. I know your view points already, and I expressed my opinion on them.

I find it hard to believe anyone, (including youself), read my initial post and genuinly believes the point of it was that I somehow am supporting Pat's opinions on women.

I have no interest in fighting with you mainly because I don't have the time to spend on someone who is so conveniently 'misunderstanding' every post I'm making :lol:
No worries Hairblues, go spend your time on something else then 🙄 maybe knitting 😁.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by Guest-2 » 3 weeks ago

EvilLocks wrote: 3 weeks ago No worries Hairblues, go spend your time on something else then 🙄 maybe knitting 😁.
A lame dig about my age. But @Pat is the awful one. :lol:

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by EvilLocks » 3 weeks ago

Guest-2 wrote: 3 weeks ago A lame dig about my age. But @Pat is the awful one. :lol:
You're right, the dig at your age was quite lame, sorry.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by Guest-4 » 3 weeks ago

JLBB wrote: 3 weeks ago Obviously I've heard this before but it still doesn't explain anything rationally. Again, it just comes across like an obvious cake and eat it scenario. The difference is that the N word referenced a trait someone is born with, slut refers to a behaviour which a large percentage of the population, particularly women view as normal and a totally legitimate expression of self but previously was looked at as negative. If there's nothing wrong with the behaviour then the word should cease being offensive. The "negative" connotation was tied to the behaviour it referenced, but supposedly now the behaviour isn't negative so the word ought to be neutral. There are women who use it the term for self-reference without a negative connotation, I use the word a lot but don't have any moral judgement over it.

If a woman is especially offended over a word with a clear cut definition that they fit because of a "connotation" then sorry but they need to reevaluate why exactly they find it offensive outside of running for the gold medal in the oppression Olympics. Women find it offensive because they're uncomfortable with being a "slut" despite advocating it as being ok.
I am confident that you know better bit regardless, I will still explain the point.

The issue with denigrative terms is that they are meant to be denigrative and to dehumanize people, and in practice they often do that very effectively. Human beings are very effective at using language and being influenced by it, it's part of what defines us. The impact of words depends not just on the dictionary definition but the cultural connotation of the word in general, which we have no personal control over. That's why a man dismissing a woman as a dumb bitch will get a different response than a woman calling another woman a bitch in an endearing way when she does something impressive, which does happen.

I remembering referring to women as sluts when I was younger. I regret having done so and I no longer do so. No I don't think that sleeping around is bad, but given the historically-derived negative connotations of the term, it is problematic for men to use the term.

But many women call each other sluts. Sometimes it's to gossip and yes that's awful. But other times it's meant in an ironic way, as they approve or admire of the behavior, and they're thus reclaiming the word. Women get to do that. Men don't.

I think that you actually understand all of this which is why you love using the terms {bitch, cunt, cuck, nigger, kike, slut, etc}. You use them a lot. The fact that you use them is proof that you recognize their potency, so I'm sure that you understand that it harms people, and thus really you shouldn't be using them.

It is also not for you to dictate to others what they can and should not care about. You're putting the onus on others to be different, indulging in being judgmental, rather than the onus on yourself to have more empathy and more understanding.

We would all benefit from being kinder and more considerate to those who have had less luck. That applies to you a lot. You're a very good looking man, you grew up in an upper middle class household in a rich country, you've gotten a lot of support from your parents, and you have a high IQ. A lot of things are going to be easier for you or simply given to you, you don't need to be a dick about it.

Added in 33 minutes 18 seconds:
Guest-2 wrote: 3 weeks ago Your perspective on marriage and divorce and dating for older people doesn't match the reality of what I see among friends or associates or what I experience myself.
One of your posts that I remember is that in which you reviewed a book a while back. Among the findings in the book, you said that it argued that contrary to popular perception, women don't necessarily settle as they age, they grow pickier.

Now that I have more experience, though not nearly as much as you, that is matching my own experience. I think that a lot of women do "whatever" because of social pressure, because they don't know better, etc. A lot of men on this site say that young women have power, they do but that doesn't mean that they know how to use it. Most 18 year olds know jack shit.

I have heard appealing stories from women who made poor choices when they were younger, which did not work out for them.

Young women put up with a lot of crap because they often don't know better. But as they age, they have a lot less tolerance for certain kinds of BS. And they are pickier. And many of them have little problem finding either what they're looking for or something close to it.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by JLBB » 3 weeks ago

Guest-4 wrote: 3 weeks ago I am confident that you know better bit regardless, I will still explain the point.

The issue with denigrative terms is that they are meant to be denigrative and to dehumanize people, and in practice they often do that very effectively. Human beings are very effective at using language and being influenced by it, it's part of what defines us. The impact of words depends not just on the dictionary definition but the cultural connotation of the word in general, which we have no personal control over. That's why a man dismissing a woman as a dumb bitch will get a different response than a woman calling another woman a bitch in an endearing way when she does something impressive, which does happen.

I remembering referring to women as sluts when I was younger. I regret having done so and I no longer do so. No I don't think that sleeping around is bad, but given the historically-derived negative connotations of the term, it is problematic for men to use the term.

But many women call each other sluts. Sometimes it's to gossip and yes that's awful. But other times it's meant in an ironic way, as they approve or admire of the behavior, and they're thus reclaiming the word. Women get to that. Men don't.

I think that you actually understand all of this which is why you love using the terms {bitch, cunt, cuck, nigger, kike, slut, etc}. You use them a lot. The fact that you use them is proof that you recognize their potency, so I'm sure that you understand that it harms people, and thus really you shouldn't be using them.

It is also not for you to dictate to others what they can and should not care about. You're putting the onus on others to be different, indulging in being judgmental, rather than the onus on yourself to have more empathy and more understanding.

We would all benefit from being kinder and more considerate to those who have had less luck. That applies to you a lot. You're a very good looking man, you grew up in an upper middle class household in a rich country, you've gotten a lot of support from your parents, and you have a high IQ. A lot of things are going to be easier for you or simply given to you, you don't need to be a dick about it.

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One of your posts that I remember is that in which you reviewed a book a while back. Among the findings in the book, you said that it argued that contrary to popular perception, women don't necessarily settle as they age, they grow pickier.

Now that I have more experience, though not nearly as much as you, that is matching my own experience. I think that a lot of women do "whatever" because of social pressure, because they don't know better, etc. A lot of men on this site say that young women have power, they do but that doesn't mean that they know how to use it. Most 18 year olds know jack shit.

One woman that I dated last year, the most gorgeous that I've been with, highly educated and intelligent ... I went over to her apartment with flowers and made her dinner ... She told me that it was the nicest thing anybody had done for her in ten years.

I took this other woman to IHOP last year (no judgment please), I refilled our coffees, and she told me "no man has ever poured me coffee before."

Another woman that I went out with recently, she acknowledged to me that her marriage failed because she never lusted for her husband. She figured that since he checked all the boxes things would work out.

Young women put up with a lot of crap because they often don't know better. But as they age, they have a lot less tolerance for certain kinds of BS. And they are pickier. And many of them have little problem finding either what they're looking for or something close to it.
I understand the perspective but still largely disagree. Also I don't think the comparison to the N or K word for example is a good one because I and virtually the entire population think those words are offensive and specifically because they diminish your worth for a trait you're born with. They're also massively more offensive in terms of their history. Slut refers to an action which a certain group of women say advocate for or want to normalise but simultaneously find a term that clearly is descriptive as offensive. Maybe 20% of the guys I know are in or have been in loving relationships and respect women as individuals, but still use the term slut liberally. They don't view the word as offensive specifically BECAUSE they don't take moral offence to the behaviour. They wouldn't say it to a woman's face because they don't want to offend someone who doesn't want it acknowledged to their face that they sleep around a lot beyond just the word slut, but it doesn't change the fact they will view a highly promiscuous woman as a "slut" because its simple descriptive language. It also feels good to say.

Is the idea that no woman is a slut? Fucking 300 guys in a year doesn't make a woman a slut? I don't think it makes them a bad person, but I do think the descriptor slut is totally reasonable. Is no woman on earth a slut? I think its more realistic to say that some women are sluts than no women are sluts if we gather collective social beliefs together including those of feminists and promiscuous women themselves on that question. You say it puts the onus on others to behave differently, actually the only one asking others to behave differently is you in saying to cease using the term. I think they should behave how they like but if putting the connotation aside they fit the definition it should lose potency in terms of how offensive it is if the act is now perceived as perfectly moral.

The more I read your argument and that of EL for example the less impressed I am with it, although I think you're much more on track with the latter part of your comment the ethos of which can also be applied to the first. "Be nice to people" is a perfectly reasonable cause and deserves attention beyond just offensive language. I remember an old Joe Rogan clip of him saying how he'd never give up the term faggot and at this point he'd likely cringe at it, obviously the desire to not offend people overcame how he felt about a word that didn't personally offend him which is a much, much better argument for not using a word. Same situation with gender pronouns, the logic in this situation is in many ways blatantly ridiculous but people engage in a behaviour with limited downside to themselves that doesn't offend someone else.

I'm not going to personally call a woman a slut to her face but I think the tradeoff is fair. If she gets to fuck 50 guys in a year who spend literally thousands of dollars on her collectively for no other reason than sex with an attractive woman the word slut is going to live on to some extent.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by EvilLocks » 3 weeks ago

JLBB wrote: 3 weeks ago I'm not going to personally call a woman a slut to her face but I think the tradeoff is fair. If she gets to fuck 50 guys in a year who spend literally thousands of dollars on her collectively for no other reason than sex with an attractive woman the word slut is going to live on to some extent.
Do women where you live literally fuck 50 (FIFTY!) guys in a year though? I know some women who have fucked 50(ish) guys in 25 years of living, something I personally think is a lot but each to their own, but in a year? That's like a different guy every single week. I have a hard time believing a lot of women fuck that many guys in a year unless she's an actual prostitute.
I know most guys like that their girlfriend hasn't been with a huge amount of guys before them and I think that is fair, it's a preference. But using the word 'slut' about a woman that has been with "a lot" of guys (whatever that number is) is not OK even in those extreme cases. It's a very degrading word and men (or women) who use it never mean well. You can say whatever you want that it is just a word, but it's not when that word is loaded with spite and disgust.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by JLBB » 3 weeks ago

EvilLocks wrote: 3 weeks ago Do women where you live literally fuck 50 (FIFTY!) guys in a year though? I know some women who have fucked 50(ish) guys in 25 years of living, something I personally think is a lot but each to their own, but in a year? That's like a different guy every single week. I have a hard time believing a lot of women fuck that many guys in a year unless she's an actual prostitute.
I know most guys like that their girlfriend hasn't been with a huge amount of guys before them and I think that is fair, it's a preference. But using the word 'slut' about a woman that has been with "a lot" of guys (whatever that number is) is not OK even in those extreme cases. It's a very degrading word and men (or women) who use it never mean well. You can say whatever you want that it is just a word, but it's not when that word is loaded with spite and disgust.
Fifty guys in a year is hyperbole, twenty guys is definitely common although most of the girls I know are from hookup apps or those I knew in high school, then on top of that what I'm told from other guys about their experiences. Still a buffet style "its there I'll take it " approach to hookups.

I have talked to a lot of girls who have gone through phases of no guys for 6 months and then 20 guys in a few months, or the obvious breakup and then 20 guys in a few months. I was with a girl once who had been with 10 guys but only lost her virginity 6 months prior.

Also the girls that are extreme cases would largely admit and do so with a smile that they are sluts. I've joked about it with girls and they haven't taken offence, I see more offence taken from those who are clearly insecure about their own sex life or the "lets be nice and avoid offending anyone" approach Afro is talking about.

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by Wire » 3 weeks ago

EvilLocks wrote: 3 weeks ago It's a very degrading word and men (or women) who use it never mean well.
What other descriptive word would you prefer?

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

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Post by EvilLocks » 3 weeks ago

JLBB wrote: 3 weeks ago Fifty guys in a year is hyperbole, twenty guys is definitely common although most of the girls I know are from hookup apps or those I knew in high school, then on top of that what I'm told from other guys about their experiences. Still a buffet style "its there I'll take it " approach to hookups.

I have talked to a lot of girls who have gone through phases of no guys for 6 months and then 20 guys in a few months, or the obvious breakup and then 20 guys in a few months. I was with a girl once who had been with 10 guys but only lost her virginity 6 months prior.

Also the girls that are extreme cases would largely admit and do so with a smile that they are sluts. I've joked about it with girls and they haven't taken offence, I see more offence taken from those who are clearly insecure about their own sex life or the "lets be nice and avoid offending anyone" approach Afro is talking about.
That's excessive. I grew up on the countryside so maybe it's different in cities or in other countries. I don't know why a woman would admit with a smile she's a slut though, but good if she doesn't take offense I guess. I take offense, not because I've been with lots of guys, but because I am against men basically telling women what to do/not do with their own bodies and if they do not oblige, they're not worthy or looked upon as trash.
I can count my lays on one hand and I still take offense to things like this, because I dislike the double standard around lay counts - men VS. women. Everyone should be able to express themselves sexually in the way that they want without being shamed for it, as long as they're not breaking any laws of course.

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Wire wrote: 3 weeks ago What other descriptive word would you prefer?
Why does there have to be a word for it? Just don't talk bad about someone because of their lay count perhaps? :D

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The consequences of sexual promiscuity

#25662

Post by Guest-4 » 3 weeks ago

JLBB wrote: 3 weeks ago I see more offence taken from those who are clearly insecure about their own sex life or the "lets be nice and avoid offending anyone" approach Afro is talking about.
Yes, not hurting other people was one of my arguments and is a value that I emphasized.

Did you deliberately exclude the other benefit or did it not even register? Empathy can be justified on entirely selfish grounds.

By the way your trivialization can be effortlessly and convincingly inverted: there is no value in being judgmental without knowledge simply for the sake of it.

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