Jordan Peterson's ideas and hair transplant

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Jordan Peterson's ideas and hair transplant

#18141

Post by Rudiger » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote: 1 year agoChomsky would respond to emails and even meet with people but he didn’t charge exorbitant sums of money or set up a Patreon for that purpose
I'm pretty sure Peterson does both these things for free, and although he does charge for his lectures (around $50, but he does make a ton of money from speaking fees) he also stays around for many hours afterwards to meet people. I know they paid but he doesn't get anything extra from that.
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#18142

Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote: 1 year ago I think some of what Peterson has to say is good but there is something very solipsistic and perhaps manipulative seeming about the whole enterprise. Chomsky would respond to emails and even meet with people but he didn’t charge exorbitant sums of money or set up a Patreon for that purpose, and why should he have, he obviously drew a substantial income from MIT.
Peterson addressed that he knows how to make money off his work: "I am an evil capitalist after all."

And he has said the same about his daughter, that even as a little kid, she tried to get money from him for completing household tasks :p.

I've never given a dime to Peterson except for his two books and a couple of conferences, which is fair. And nearly the entirety of his content, of his courses, or about 1500 hours (of gold! he says without bias) can be watched for free on YouTube.

The same cannot be said about some of my other heroes, like Jonathan Pageau, who has content that's only accessible on Patreon, for which I'm going to pay soon by the way. Ain't nothing wrong with that in my opinion :).
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#18143

Post by yettee » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote: 1 year ago And hasn’t the daughter been outed as a pretty shameless grifter, advertising “sessions” with her where she tells the person to just eat meat? Although afaik she has no credentials or expertise to do so. And her mysterious illness is rather dubious anyway, the “all meat” diet is strange and likely has little to do with the cessation of her symptoms, such as they were.
As it happens, several of my friends have recently tried to explain to me that the root of all evil, health-wise, is sugar and blood sugar spikes. To that end, they stirive to avoid them at all costs, which means no candy of course, but also no white rice, no bread, no carbs... anything that is high or I suppose even mid-level on the glycemic index scale. Including fruits like oranges and bananas, as they contain sugar. So a conversation I had, for example, was that my friend was telling me that eating a steak, or even a cup of pure fat, is better for the body than eating a banana due to the sugar in the banana. When I protested that the banana has vitamins etc, the response was that they can be attained in other, healthier ways.

? Curious about any thoughts. I think it was also said that eating meat all the time would lower one's cholesterol, or at least be better for it than eating oranges and bananas. Could that be?

I know @Afro_Vacancy is very knowledgeable about nutrition so I'll name drop him here. :D I know almost nothing about it and love Burger King. But one has to wise up a little as one gets older...

The idea of eating no greens at all seems ridiculous to me and I won't even ask about it. That's gotta be wrong. :eh:

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#18144

Post by Guest-4 » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote: 1 year ago The affect of the wife/mom is a little...strange to me. The same dazed, moonchild manner that Mia Farrow has, for instance. And hasn’t the daughter been outed as a pretty shameless grifter, advertising “sessions” with her where she tells the person to just eat meat? Although afaik she has no credentials or expertise to do so. And her mysterious illness is rather dubious anyway, the “all meat” diet is strange and likely has little to do with the cessation of her symptoms, such as they were.

I think some of what Peterson has to say is good but there is something very solipsistic and perhaps manipulative seeming about the whole enterprise. Chomsky would respond to emails and even meet with people but he didn’t charge exorbitant sums of money or set up a Patreon for that purpose, and why should he have, he obviously drew a substantial income from MIT. No offense to anyone who likes him I just feel that Peterson is too much of a media personality and it makes me highly suspicious of him.
Chomsky is superhuman though in that regard. I was shocked when he responded to emails of two people that I know, but he does that, though I don't think it's fair to expect that of others.
yettee wrote: 1 year ago As it happens, several of my friends have recently tried to explain to me that the root of all evil, health-wise, is sugar and blood sugar spikes. To that end, they stirive to avoid them at all costs, which means no candy of course, but also no white rice, no bread, no carbs... anything that is high or I suppose even mid-level on the glycemic index scale. Including fruits like oranges and bananas, as they contain sugar. So a conversation I had, for example, was that my friend was telling me that eating a steak, or even a cup of pure fat, is better for the body than eating a banana due to the sugar in the banana. When I protested that the banana has vitamins etc, the response was that they can be attained in other, healthier ways.

? Curious about any thoughts. I think it was also said that eating meat all the time would lower one's cholesterol, or at least be better for it than eating oranges and bananas. Could that be?

I know @Afro_Vacancy is very knowledgeable about nutrition so I'll name drop him here. :D I know almost nothing about it and love Burger King. But one has to wise up a little as one gets older...

The idea of eating no greens at all seems ridiculous to me and I won't even ask about it. That's gotta be wrong. :eh:
Sugar can be an evil but it is not the root of *all* evil. In the case of the Peterson family, they seem to have auto immune diseases. Think of those people who say that they're allergic to wheat, coconut, peanuts, etc, but in the case of the Peterson's, it's even worse, and I think that Mikaela has all sorts of allergies. By eating just meat, they end up on a glorified "elimination" diet, where an elimination diet is what people do to figure out what they're allergic to.

Sugar is largely "bad" because it can elevate blood glucose, insulin, and too much sugar may be bad for the brain, there may be other reasons too but those are the main ones that people talk about. Foods that trigger autoimmune issues are bad for different reasons.

It may be that Mikaela Peterson is just allergic to say, lots of different classes of fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, pulses, etc. That's not as unbelievable, when framed in those ways.

A carnivore diet, which many people are trying out, might also work as a low sugar diet bit there are caveats. The majority of protein that people consume gets converted to glucose, and animal protein in general can cause a large insulin spike. However, it will probably be lower sugar than a standard American diet (SAD), and it's definitely low in fructose, the other half of sucrose, which is a glucose-fructose pair.

I don't consider a banana to be bad for you in general, but I would avoid it if I were insulin resistant, and it's obviously bad for you if you're allergic to bananas, which the Petersons might be. Yes it has some nutrients, but it's debatable if it has 100 calories worth of nutrients. Would a can of coke be healthy if they dissolved a multivitamin in it? No, but admittedly there are some other differences with the banana, though it's an instructive example.

Beef, by the way, is very nutritious. There are tons of vitamins and minerals in steak. I assume that the Petersons are also adding offal (organ meat) which is likely necessary on a long term carnivore diet.

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Post by Guest-3 » 1 year ago

yettee wrote: 1 year ago Including fruits like oranges and bananas, as they contain sugar. So a conversation I had, for example, was that my friend was telling me that eating a steak, or even a cup of pure fat, is better for the body than eating a banana due to the sugar in the banana.
I recently included banana and apple in my diet because health agencies recommend daily consumption of fruits and vegetables. But now I hear some people claim that fruits are not food for you lol. There is some much contradictory information about nutrition that it's hard to know what's good and what's bad.I think I will just ignore all the "advises" and stick to my common sense until experts in the area stop contradicting themselves. I mean, I read the other day that even tomato is bad for you.
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#18153

Post by Guest-4 » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote: 1 year ago is some much contradictory information about nutrition that it's hard to know what's good and what's bad.I think I will just ignore all the "advises" and stick to my common sense until experts in the area stop contradicting themselves. I mean, I read the other day that even tomato is bad for you.
A lot of it is variable. As an example, auto-immune effects are clearly bad for you but only if you have those side effects. Coconut is awful for you if you're allergic to coconut, and probably good if you're not. My understanding is that there is some variability for tomato, I never looked into the details of that particular claim, but I think that there is a lot of variation in people's ability to digest tomatoes. The claim is that for some people, they are digested quickly and lead to very rapid blood sugar spikes, in which case they will be bad if you have insulin resistance / type II diabetes.

If you tell me your general status I can try and give you some general recommendations :-) From what I know, the best fruits, if you can afford them, are berries: blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, etc. Vegetables are usually better, for example broccoli, broccolini, bok choy, spinach, cauliflower, etc.

They're (as in nutritional authorities) also not quite contradicting themselves, it's largely that they're legitimately arguing with one another and having a very large debate. Like if you came to this forum and saw me saying one thing and Johnson saying something else, it wouldn't be fair to say that the posters here are contradicting each other. What's really happening is that different posters have different points of view.

There is also a lot of intervention from outside forces since food is political and big business related. Coca Cola, protein powder manufacturers, the big breweries, etc each interfere in research.

But in a lot of cases, people have different points of view because we're discussing a challenging, unsolved problem, and a good solution for one person may be a bad solution for somebody else.

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Something that I've learned / accepted as true recently: the bacteria that are in the mouth actually matter. Years ago I read a report that mouthwash can decrease the strength of erections, and I dismissed it, it sounded crackpot-y. But recently, there's been a separate study on mouthwash and exercise/blood pressure, which found the analogous effect, I think it was that people who use mouthwash get a weaker response from exercise, or something like that. It turns out that nitric oxide production may in fact involve a component that involves the bacteria in the mouth to be active. So now when I eat fruits and vegetables, I am making an effort to chew them a lot more and more slowly, as opposed to swallowing them quickly.
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#18154

Post by yettee » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote: 1 year ago I recently included banana and apple in my diet because health agencies recommend daily consumption of fruits and vegetables. But now I hear some people claim that fruits are not food for you lol. There is some much contradictory information about nutrition that it's hard to know what's good and what's bad.I think I will just ignore all the "advises" and stick to my common sense until experts in the area stop contradicting themselves. I mean, I read the other day that even tomato is bad for you.
Ya, in at least one of the conversations I mentioned above, I was also told apples are bad for you, full stop. Not just in the case of allergy, but for anyone. Again, connected to the sugar.

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Post by Guest-2 » 1 year ago

Dr Robert Lustig a pediatric endocrinologist spoke about this in some Lecturs I watched on YouTube.

He said if you want fruit eat it in its most natural state. Don’t do juicing or dried. Something about eating it with the pulp or chewing it does something with how fast you metabolis the sugar into blood. He also suggests food pairing if you eat it with a fat or protein. So instead of a whole banana, eat half with a few nuts. It keeps you satiated longer and won’t spike blood. If eating after a meal I would have half or even a 1/3 if trying to lose weight.

Anyway he’s a good source about food and health.

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Post by Guest-3 » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote: 1 year ago A lot of it is variable. As an example, auto-immune effects are clearly bad for you but only if you have those side effects. Coconut is awful for you if you're allergic to coconut, and probably good if you're not. My understanding is that there is some variability for tomato, I never looked into the details of that particular claim, but I think that there is a lot of variation in people's ability to digest tomatoes.
It will be nice if they include this caveat but the articles that I have read don't. They just engage in absolute recommendation with little to no nuance. I think they are doing more harm than good by confusing people. I mean if people start reading that everything is bad to eat, then they would stop bothering with these advises after some time.
Afro_Vacancy wrote: 1 year ago
If you tell me your general status I can try and give you some general recommendations :-) From what I know, the best fruits, if you can afford them, are berries: blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, etc. Vegetables are usually better, for example broccoli, broccolini, bok choy, spinach, cauliflower, etc.
So I am a vegetarian and mostly subsist on rice and boiled vegetables and some beans. I don't think I eat enough vegetables though as around 70% of my meal is rice. That's why I included apple and banana in my diet. I actually don't like apple and banana at all and would prefer to not eat them. I don't have any health issues and is in pretty good shape. My plan moving forward is to just include more vegetables and almonds/walnuts. Do you think that's a good plan? Also, what do you think about milk?
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Post by Guest-4 » 1 year ago

pjhair wrote: 1 year ago It will be nice if they include this caveat but the articles that I have read don't. They just engage in absolute recommendation with little to no nuance. I think they are doing more harm than good by confusing people. I mean if people start reading that everything is bad to eat, then they would stop bothering with these advises after some time.



So I am a vegetarian and mostly subsist on rice and boiled vegetables and some beans. I don't think I eat enough vegetables though as around 70% of my meal is rice. That's why I included apple and banana in my diet. I actually don't like apple and banana at all and would prefer to not eat them. I don't have any health issues and is in pretty good shape. My plan moving forward is to just include more vegetables and almonds/walnuts. Do you think that's a good plan? Also, what do you think about milk?
That's probably fine. If you want more confidence in the issue, you can go to your GP, mention any health problems that you might have, and ask for a complete blood panel including lipids, nutrients, thyroid, and electrolytes. There probably won't be anything but you can check.

How do you eat so much rice lol?

If you want to make changes, here are some modest suggestions:
- Two baskets of berries or cherries a week.
- different vegetables and some nuts would be great.
- I approve of high fat milk but I don't drink much. I get my dairy from yogurt and cheese but that reflects taste preference, not health preference. High fat, sugar free yogurt is best, and of you want sugar, add it yourself, say by adding honey.

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Post by Guest-3 » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote: 1 year ago How do you eat so much rice lol?
I gew up eating rice in both lunch and dinner lol. I don't feel satiated until I eat a lot of rice in my meal. It has never caused me to gain weight or any other health issues. Two meals are all I eat though. My first meal is between 1pm to 6 pm and then second meal is around 10 or 11 pm. No snacks or anything between.
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Post by JLBB » 1 year ago

Hanginginthewire wrote: 1 year ago The affect of the wife/mom is a little...strange to me. The same dazed, moonchild manner that Mia Farrow has, for instance. And hasn’t the daughter been outed as a pretty shameless grifter, advertising “sessions” with her where she tells the person to just eat meat? Although afaik she has no credentials or expertise to do so. And her mysterious illness is rather dubious anyway, the “all meat” diet is strange and likely has little to do with the cessation of her symptoms, such as they were.

I think some of what Peterson has to say is good but there is something very solipsistic and perhaps manipulative seeming about the whole enterprise. Chomsky would respond to emails and even meet with people but he didn’t charge exorbitant sums of money or set up a Patreon for that purpose, and why should he have, he obviously drew a substantial income from MIT. No offense to anyone who likes him I just feel that Peterson is too much of a media personality and it makes me highly suspicious of him.
If you pay Peterson WILL provide a service. If you send an email to Chomsky he will likely respond to softball, leftwing and suckup questions from people who make it clear they are one of his disciples or on his side, but if you want to argue a point a point to better refine understanding of a conclusion, he will ignore unless its to a public figure. Even then he's unlikely to provide anything of worth. I hardly think its worth pretending that Chomsky, quite frankly the most dangerous and influential leftwing intellectual is some sort of paragon of open dialogue when he can't be bothered to refute evidence to the contrary about the often wildly inaccurate claims he makes. Point being, these are two completely separate approaches; you pay you get a response vs the only people getting a response are those who aren't creating conflict with his perspective. I don't see how this isn't anything other than obvious and I don't think it lends Chomsky any sort of moral high ground either, one charges money for their finite time, the other largely just ignores perspectives they don't agree with.

I'm sceptical of Peterson's worth or importance as an intellectual but often the response to him I find is more revealing than most of what he actually says. The big one being people questioning him on his understanding of and use of the term post-modernism, themselves never seeming to understand that providing some kind of definitive, reductive definition of it is fundamentally incongruous with what any of the postmodernists actually wrote or spoke about. There are a huge number of 20-40 minute videos attacking him on a fucking definition or understanding of a word that inherently doesn't lend itself to concrete definitions while entirely ignoring Peterson's critiques of issues he believes are tainted by HIS broad definition as a public intellectual for postmodernism to begin with.

"Way too much of a media personality" certainly makes me suspicious of him as it does for you, but using that as a case against his worth that you literally do in this post is a quintessential example of people (leftists/progressives for the most part) becoming absurdly thoughtless when talking about him.

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Post by Admin » 1 year ago

JLBB wrote: 1 year ago I'm sceptical of Peterson's worth or importance as an intellectual but often the response to him I find is more revealing than most of what he actually says. The big one being people questioning him on his understanding of and use of the term post-modernism, themselves never seeming to understand that providing some kind of definitive, reductive definition of it is fundamentally incongruous with what any of the postmodernists actually wrote or spoke about. There are a huge number of 20-40 minute videos attacking him on a fucking definition or understanding of a word that inherently doesn't lend itself to concrete definitions while entirely ignoring Peterson's critiques of issues he believes are tainted by HIS broad definition as a public intellectual for postmodernism to begin with.
After reading 12 Rules for Life, you can think a lot of it is common sense and I can see people wonder what the originality of his thinking is. But if you read his first book Maps of Meaning, you'll realize how much deeper his thinking is and how it led to 12 Rules for Life as well as his fame. Because let's say it, he's the first person in the West since like C.S. Lewis to move the ball on religion for many atheists. Many, many of people (including me) have converted to Christianity because of him, and let's not act like this is a minor feat, especially when they came from a position like "muh flying spaghetti monster lololol!".

Other than that, your point about the 20-40 minutes answer to his use and understanding of a single word for me points to narcissism. It's funny how it works, like someone who thinks clearly like Peterson will be as concise as possible, whether in writing or orally, and then you have his narcissistic detractors, throwing all their defense mechanisms at him, mainly what's called 'word salad', this is something I've observed many times with people who stubbornly want to defend their largely wrong worldview. Look at @That Guy's posts (sorry if you're reading this, you can't reply for now, but you'll be able to after October 8th :p) increasing in length with time, with dozens of links, gifs, memes, as if it somehow gives weight to their argument.

Truth, common sense, having the right intuition do not produce that. You'll be usually concise, to the point and elegant, and most importantly devoid of anger and contempt for your adversary. It happens with my cousin when he feels he has to defend his view on reality (about which I don't even care). And you can trigger him with almost nothing, like, a word for example. Even dropping the word 'Jew' in any context. Bam, he starts writing long-ass rants and sending a dozen 1 minute audioclips (on Messenger) about how Jews actually do not exist (yes). Every time it happens, I'm just like :wtf:, and ain't nobody got time for that. That's how I feel about people "destroying" Peterson because he supposedly does not understand the word postmodernism.
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Post by Guest-4 » 1 year ago

JLBB wrote: 1 year ago If you pay Peterson WILL provide a service. If you send an email to Chomsky he will likely respond to softball, leftwing and suckup questions from people who make it clear they are one of his disciples or on his side, but if you want to argue a point a point to better refine understanding of a conclusion, he will ignore unless its to a public figure. Even then he's unlikely to provide anything of worth. I hardly think its worth pretending that Chomsky, quite frankly the most dangerous and influential leftwing intellectual is some sort of paragon of open dialogue when he can't be bothered to refute evidence to the contrary about the often wildly inaccurate claims he makes. Point being, these are two completely separate approaches; you pay you get a response vs the only people getting a response are those who aren't creating conflict with his perspective. I don't see how this isn't anything other than obvious and I don't think it lends Chomsky any sort of moral high ground either, one charges money for their finite time, the other largely just ignores perspectives they don't agree with.

I'm sceptical of Peterson's worth or importance as an intellectual but often the response to him I find is more revealing than most of what he actually says. The big one being people questioning him on his understanding of and use of the term post-modernism, themselves never seeming to understand that providing some kind of definitive, reductive definition of it is fundamentally incongruous with what any of the postmodernists actually wrote or spoke about. There are a huge number of 20-40 minute videos attacking him on a fucking definition or understanding of a word that inherently doesn't lend itself to concrete definitions while entirely ignoring Peterson's critiques of issues he believes are tainted by HIS broad definition as a public intellectual for postmodernism to begin with.

"Way too much of a media personality" certainly makes me suspicious of him as it does for you, but using that as a case against his worth that you literally do in this post is a quintessential example of people (leftists/progressives for the most part) becoming absurdly thoughtless when talking about him.
That critique is plausibly due to Peterson's style in videos.

He repeats the phrase "post modern cultural neo marxists radical left" in some combination, what can seem to be every second or third sentence, as blanket terminology to describe those he disagrees with. It's lazy, sloppy, imprecise, and inaccurate.

If you're asking people not to be "absurdly thoughtless" or whatever incorrect hyperbole you're using by not making that criticism, you are likely filling in a lot of blanks for Peterson. Quite frankly, that's not the listener's job. It's his job to be precise when communicating.

Further, definitions and language are actually extremely important. Nobody, as far as I know, calls themselves a "postmodern cultural neomarxist radical leftist," it's not how people describe themselves because it's not an insightful definition nor an accurate one, it's an ad hominem attack. The fact that Peterson uses the terms without defining them is actually part of the point, he wants it to be scary, it's scarier if it's not rigorously explained and is left for every reader to fill in their most nightmarish blanks, and the use of that strategy shifts him from being a dispassionate intellectual to being a politician. To discuss that is not to ignore the point, it is the point.

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Post by Admin » 1 year ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote: 1 year ago "post modern cultural neo marxists radical left"
You're right, to be thorough and more precise, he should also add satanic.

Seriously though, Peterson uses those words because that's exactly what they are.

It's people who want to replace God, to be their own god, who believe that reality can be anything they want (postmodernism), and what everyone unconsciously does is trying to defend their own arbitrarily-determined reality . So what's wrong with trying to impose your reality on everyone else? And how do they hope to achieve that? With power (here's your neomarxism).
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