Let’s talk Donald Trump

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by nameless » 2 weeks ago

Trump emboldens right-wing bigots to do things they otherwise wouldn't do.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/i ... es-and-get

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by blackg » 2 weeks ago

If anyone thinks that President Trump has somehow had an influence on the motives of these killers, then they are just deluded ideologues not in touch with the real world.
This delusion closely resembles your thinking too, namejob.

I know who really is to blame.
Ringo, said the gringo

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Hairblues » 2 weeks ago

blackg wrote:
2 weeks ago
If anyone thinks that President Trump has somehow had an influence on the motives of these killers, then they are just deluded ideologues not in touch with the real world.
This delusion closely resembles your thinking too, namejob.

I know who really is to blame.
He’s the leader of the free world using the same key words as racists...that’s influential for sure. Does it make him responsible? Not directly, perhaps morally.

Let’s put it this way, I’m agnostic but if I were a believer I wouldn’t want to be Trump when his judgment day comes. He’s found a way to profit from flirting with racism (he will go into media when this is all said and done and that’s his eye on the prize with his base in my opinion).

Again, I don’t think he wants people to be killed and I think I’m his mind he bears no responsibility for it. And legally, he doesn’t, but morally I think he has a lot to answer to if their is a higher power.

Example
He made a joke when someone said to shoot Mexicans not too long ago. Now you can argue he’s a different kind of president. Well, okay he is. But it’s yet another reason in my opinion he’s unfit to be in that office.
But well see if if in 2020 the majority of electoral states agrees with me or not. We already know the majority of American do.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Rudiger » 2 weeks ago

Hairblues wrote:
2 weeks ago
Example
He made a joke when someone said to shoot Mexicans not too long ago.
I'm going to assume you simply read some misleading headline or article.

“When you have 15,000 people marching up, and you have hundreds and hundreds of [immigrants], and you have two or three border security people that are brave and great – and don’t forget we don’t let them and we can’t let them use weapons, We can’t. Other countries do, we can’t. I would never do that. But how do you stop these people?”

Only leftist lamestream media could expose their own racism by taking a direct quote about illegal immigrants literally crossing the border, and conflate that to "Mexicans".

Trump was talking about people of any nationality (usually at least Central American as well as Mexican) illegally invading a border, what word does the liberal media use to describe such people? Just "Mexicans" of course, not just the ones who are breaking the law by storming a country, but the local small business owners you might know, those that are remaining in Mexico themselves, all of them are the same as those illegal immigrants. The irony of saying "Nazi Trump" here.

Directly from the same quote that leads to yes, a joke, he makes it clear that even though his tiny border patrols in some sections can get swarmed, he would never authorise shooting them, he reiterated it.

So what's happened here is- Trump makes it clear he would never have illegal immigrants at the border shot, this is somehow twisted in to not just shooting the illegal immigrants at the border (because of yes- a joke) but shooting all Mexicans (specifically) in any situation, a Walmart, anywhere at all.

That is such a hysterical jump in logic.
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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Hairblues » 2 weeks ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'm going to assume you simply read some misleading headline or article.

“When you have 15,000 people marching up, and you have hundreds and hundreds of [immigrants], and you have two or three border security people that are brave and great – and don’t forget we don’t let them and we can’t let them use weapons, We can’t. Other countries do, we can’t. I would never do that. But how do you stop these people?”

Only leftist lamestream media could expose their own racism by taking a direct quote about illegal immigrants literally crossing the border, and conflate that to "Mexicans".

Trump was talking about people of any nationality (usually at least Central American as well as Mexican) illegally invading a border, what word does the liberal media use to describe such people? Just "Mexicans" of course, not just the ones who are breaking the law by storming a country, but the local small business owners you might know, those that are remaining in Mexico themselves, all of them are the same as those illegal immigrants. The irony of saying "Nazi Trump" here.

Directly from the same quote that leads to yes, a joke, he makes it clear that even though his tiny border patrols in some sections can get swarmed, he would never authorise shooting them, he reiterated it.

So what's happened here is- Trump makes it clear he would never have illegal immigrants at the border shot, this is somehow twisted in to not just shooting the illegal immigrants at the border (because of yes- a joke) but shooting all Mexicans (specifically) in any situation, a Walmart, anywhere at all.

That is such a hysterical jump in logic.
You assume wrong. I saw the whole video clip from his Pan Handle rally and I stand by what I say.
It’s not a big jump in logic to know that they mean Latinos.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 weeks ago

blackg wrote:
2 weeks ago
If anyone thinks that President Trump has somehow had an influence on the motives of these killers, then they are just deluded ideologues not in touch with the real world.
This delusion closely resembles your thinking too, namejob.

I know who really is to blame.
1) Sheep follow shepherds.
2) The frequency of these incidences has skyrocketed under Trump.
3) Many of these serial killers explicitly mention Trump.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by nameless » 2 weeks ago

blackg wrote:
2 weeks ago
I know who really is to blame.
If you really don't comprehend that Trump's racial hatred is a driver of these hate/race killings then you lack wisdom. Ah well, ignorance is bliss so at least you're happy even though you're unaware of what's going on in this world.

Added in 1 minute 8 seconds:
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago

2) The frequency of these incidences has skyrocketed under Trump.
This

Added in 36 seconds:
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago

3) Many of these serial killers explicitly mention Trump.
And this.

Added in 30 minutes 39 seconds:
Hairblues wrote:
2 weeks ago
He’s the leader of the free world using the same key words as racists...that’s influential for sure. Does it make him responsible? Not directly, perhaps morally.

Let’s put it this way, I’m agnostic but if I were a believer I wouldn’t want to be Trump when his judgment day comes. He’s found a way to profit from flirting with racism (he will go into media when this is all said and done and that’s his eye on the prize with his base in my opinion).
I disagree.

Despite the very public complaints by President Trump's critics that the President's racial demagoguery drives these killings, Trump continues his demagoguery. And since Trump's followers feel affirmed, by no less than POTUS, in their beliefs that dark-skinned people are bad people and they're dangerous to the US it's not much of a leap to reach a point where it's OK for some of his followers to take lethal action. After all, dark-skinned people are bad people, they're damaging America, and POTUS himself has affirmed this.

And since Trump's critics have complained loudly & publicly that POTUS's racial demagoguery is driving some of his supporters to harm dark-skinned people POTUS can't credibly claim he's unaware that his demagoguery could be (at least) partially driving these killings. He's definitely aware that these killings could arise, at least in part, from the way he demonizes dark-skinned people. Now I'm not saying that these killings are the President's objective because I don't think these killings are POTUS's objective. What I'm saying is that POTUS wants to stoke the bigotry of his supporters so he can get their support, he's aware that doing this could lead to these types of killing, but that doesn't matter enough to him to make him stop it.
Last edited by nameless 2 weeks ago, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 weeks ago

Somehow, I suspect that the owner of this van was influenced by Trump:

Image

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by nameless » 2 weeks ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago
Somehow, I suspect that the owner of this van was influenced by Trump:

Image
Is this the shooter's van?

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 weeks ago

nameless wrote:
2 weeks ago
Is this the shooter's van?
No, that's the van of a previous lunatic, from last year.

Cesar Sayoc, specifically. His trial recently completed. The judge accepted the defense lawyers' arguments, that he was not his own man but rather a sheep under the spell of Trump the shepherd. The sentence was 20 years which was at the low end of what could have been handed down.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Rudiger » 2 weeks ago

Hairblues wrote:
2 weeks ago
You assume wrong. I saw the whole video clip from his Pan Handle rally and I stand by what I say.
It’s not a big jump in logic to know that they mean Latinos.
My assumption was giving the benefit of the doubt!

Personally when I think of people breaking the law and hundreds of them rushing border officials, I don't just regard them as any type of "Mexican" because it's two completely different things.

If you're referring to the person in the crowd meaning "shoot all Mexicans/Latino's" when he was specifically talking about illegal immigrants, then that's not a jump in logic sure, but for Trump to mean that? After he clearly stated he not only wants to avoid shooting any Mexican, but even the ones that are breaking the law, that's a jump in logic.
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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 weeks ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 weeks ago
My assumption was giving the benefit of the doubt!

Personally when I think of people breaking the law and hundreds of them rushing border officials, I don't just regard them as any type of "Mexican" because it's two completely different things.

If you're referring to the person in the crowd meaning "shoot all Mexicans/Latino's" when he was specifically talking about illegal immigrants, then that's not a jump in logic sure, but for Trump to mean that? After he clearly stated he not only wants to avoid shooting any Mexican, but even the ones that are breaking the law, that's a jump in logic.
The exact same words spoken with the exact same tone will be interpreted differently bo different people. That is obviously true in the case of literature and film but it is also true in real life. It's also possible for both meanings to be true.

When among real life friends, we make an effort, often subconscious, to figure out what people really mean. That's quite good and quite impressive. But politicians, and also marketing firms, take advantage of different subjectivities and often use dog whistles, words which will have different meanings to different groups.

Trump didn't invent this, I suspect that this has always been around. However, he's using it in a different and more effective way than many of his predecessors. He's appealing to a lot if people who were otherwise left out of the political process.

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by blackg » 2 weeks ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 weeks ago
My assumption was giving the benefit of the doubt!

Personally when I think of people breaking the law and hundreds of them rushing border officials, I don't just regard them as any type of "Mexican" because it's two completely different things.

If you're referring to the person in the crowd meaning "shoot all Mexicans/Latino's" when he was specifically talking about illegal immigrants, then that's not a jump in logic sure, but for Trump to mean that? After he clearly stated he not only wants to avoid shooting any Mexican, but even the ones that are breaking the law, that's a jump in logic.
Very good, Rudi.
Most of these leftist would struggle to know the difference between a Hatian and a Hondurian. And if I'm being honest, I would too, except for the fact that one group speaks Spanish while the other group speaks pidgin Spanish.

Leftist just see these folks as victims. Brown victims that are on the receiving end of some wicked tyranny that we (white people/colonizers) are ultimately responsible for.
Ringo, said the gringo

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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Rudiger » 2 weeks ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago
1) Sheep follow shepherds.
2) The frequency of these incidences has skyrocketed under Trump.
3) Many of these serial killers explicitly mention Trump.
I can think of 3 and one of them is questionable, but do you have a link that summarises the huge increase in attacks over the last 4 years?
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago
Somehow, I suspect that the owner of this van was influenced by Trump:

Image
I guess we're counting this. You mean those shiny brand new perfectly placed stickers? @pat

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59&hilit=sayoc&start=555#p7314

And on the next page you dare him to present some points that can be refuted, after belittling him with a wikipedia article on a well known subject, and Pat quotes his own post just to make sure you've seen them (which you probably did anyway) and you divert to the most inane and irrelevant parts of his points, as always focusing on an overarching vague ideology rather than engaging in specifics, which is what you were oddly asking him to debate on.
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 weeks ago
The exact same words spoken with the exact same tone will be interpreted differently bo different people. That is obviously true in the case of literature and film but it is also true in real life. It's also possible for both meanings to be true.

When among real life friends, we make an effort, often subconscious, to figure out what people really mean. That's quite good and quite impressive. But politicians, and also marketing firms, take advantage of different subjectivities and often use dog whistles, words which will have different meanings to different groups.

Trump didn't invent this, I suspect that this has always been around. However, he's using it in a different and more effective way than many of his predecessors. He's appealing to a lot if people who were otherwise left out of the political process.
Yes, that is indeed obviously true afro, but thanks for explaining anyway, but dum dum me I only thought it was true in the case of literature or film, I didn't realise it's true in real life or anythink :thinking: Can you send me a wikipedia link on basic psychological manipulation? Maybe half the references will be your posts on the internet.

And this quote isn't much different than the example with Pat, which I didn't have on hand or anything, but I remember Pat talking about this and I saw your post Sayoc earlier and looked it up, and the way you belittled in that situation was so bad, and months later I still think nothings changed. You haven't actually addressed anything here in your post to me, neither what I said, or what hairblues said, just pretending to sit in the middle while not so subtly insinuating extreme liberal views. You did not learn the term "dog whistling" just by casually living life.

You are always so fair, reasoned and balanced, 50/50 on everything, that you're like 50.0000/50.0000, with the zeros rubbing so close together they created a black hole in the fence you are perfectly balanced on. And please correct me on how that makes no sense mathematically.
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Re: Let’s talk Donald Trump

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 weeks ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 weeks ago
I can think of 3 and one of them is questionable, but do you have a link that summarises the huge increase in attacks over the last 4 years?



I guess we're counting this. You mean those shiny brand new perfectly placed stickers? @pat

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59&hilit=sayoc&start=555#p7314

And on the next page you dare him to present some points that can be refuted, after belittling him with a wikipedia article on a well known subject, and Pat quotes his own post just to make sure you've seen them (which you probably did anyway) and you divert to the most inane and irrelevant parts of his points, as always focusing on an overarching vague ideology rather than engaging in specifics, which is what you were oddly asking him to debate on.



Yes, that is indeed obviously true afro, but thanks for explaining anyway, but dum dum me I only thought it was true in the case of literature or film, I didn't realise it's true in real life or anythink :thinking: Can you send me a wikipedia link on basic psychological manipulation? Maybe half the references will be your posts on the internet.

And this quote isn't much different than the example with Pat, which I didn't have on hand or anything, but I remember Pat talking about this and I saw your post Sayoc earlier and looked it up, and the way you belittled in that situation was so bad, and months later I still think nothings changed. You haven't actually addressed anything here in your post to me, neither what I said, or what hairblues said, just pretending to sit in the middle while not so subtly insinuating extreme liberal views. You did not learn the term "dog whistling" just by casually living life.

You are always so fair, reasoned and balanced, 50/50 on everything, that you're like 50.0000/50.0000, with the zeros rubbing so close together they created a black hole in the fence you are perfectly balanced on. And please correct me on how that makes no sense mathematically.
You're correct that I did not address that conspiracy theory of @Pat.

Edited to add: Brb something came up.

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