Debunking the Big Bang theory

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by EvilLocks » 4 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
He does show Himself, to those who want to see.

...

:pepe-rage:
I've been wanting to see for a long time now, what am I doing wrong then? 8-)
But seriously, I'm torn between what I believe - science or God. Sometimes I want to believe there is something more but most of the time I believe in science.
What puzzles me about God is why there is so much suffering happening to good people, I mean what is the reason? If there was a God, why would he make innocent people suffer?
Anyway, I often wonder about the universe and it's beginning or end. What gets me the most is, does the universe have an end, and if so, what is beyond that end? If the universe is endless, how is that possible? Is there another earth with life in another galaxy far far away?
If you spend some time thinking about these questions it can make you go crazy :think:
At Peace with the Piece 8-)

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Xexos » 4 months ago

EvilLocks wrote:
4 months ago
I've been wanting to see for a long time now, what am I doing wrong then? 8-)
But seriously, I'm torn between what I believe - science or God. Sometimes I want to believe there is something more but most of the time I believe in science.
What puzzles me about God is why there is so much suffering happening to good people, I mean what is the reason? If there was a God, why would he make innocent people suffer?
Anyway, I often wonder about the universe and it's beginning or end. What gets me the most is, does the universe have an end, and if so, what is beyond that end? If the universe is endless, how is that possible? Is there another earth with life in another galaxy far far away?
If you spend some time thinking about these questions it can make you go crazy :think:
This is gonna be a long replay, but please bear with me. For the others who will quote and get angry and insult in a retarded way because they have some mental issues, rest assured that i just don't care and i won't respond.


Anyways, you should believe in both, as science and God complete each others not the opposite. For example, you could believe in the Big Bang and also believe that God caused it, which would make much more sense. Scientists and the atheist community have this God complex. They would rather give credit to impossible coincidences and things that just can't happen, or either make up some bullshit quantum mechanics theories that don't have any real evidence just to fill the holes in their theories of the origin of the universe. Even if those people saw God with their eyes they would say "you know what, that could be a hologram made by aliens to deceive us, God can't and doesn't exist!". The problem is personal with God, some hate him, some are angry at him, some are disappointed at him, some just want to live carefree instead of binding to morals, some just don't give a shit. That's why most of the atheists i've debated with are extremely ignorant and don't even know what they believe in or talking about, and they either insult me or get irrationally angry because they're insecure about something.


And to the second question, why is there's suffering in this world ? Because life doesn't matter. Life is nothing but a test made to choose the worthy people who deserve a better afterlife, a better real life. That's why all the religious people from different religions didn't take life that seriously and despite that they were the happiest and most content. Not to say that humans caused a lot of their own sufferings with their own hands. Killing, raping, bullying, torturing, wars, greed, hate, cruelty, envy, anger, are all manmade and we're fully responsible when it comes to them.

Also suffering doesn't mean you're a bad person, there's a Hadith in Islam that says ""O Messenger of Allah(s.a.w)! Which of the people is tried most severely?" He said: "The Prophets, then those nearest to them, then those nearest to them. A man is tried according to his religion; if he is firm in his religion, then his trials are more severe, and if he is frail in his religion, then he is tried according to the strength of his religion. The servant shall continue to be tried until he is left walking upon the earth without any sins."

So actually the more good and religious you're, the more you're gonna suffer and have an unfair life. It's not because God hates you, but because the more you suffer in this life, the more you're rewarded in the afterlife and he wants to take from you in this life full of suffering and give you much better in another life.

That's why there's something almost everyone noticed that says "why good and respectful people always suffer the most, while evil douchbags have way easier lives?"

Also do you want to know how much the prophets suffered ? The prophets are the best people to have ever existed and they've suffered the worst lives you could ever imagined.

Prophet Job :-
1-ALL his sons and daughters suddenly died

2-He lost all of his money to the point that he became extremely poor after being the richest man

3-All his friends and relatives abandoned him except his wife and two other men

4-He got a disease that left him bedridden for EIGHTEEN years and he couldn't use any part of his body except his tongue and eyes, for eighteen years


Prophet Muhammad :-
1-Born without a father

2-His mother died years after he was born

3-Was too poor that he couldn't even afford education and he couldn't read or write

4-When he invited people to Islam, he was tortured, insulted, mocked along with his friends until he was forced to leave his home eventually

5-He was starved to the point that he tied a rock to his stomach to counter the feeling of hunger

6-His cousin and uncle were killed in a battle

7-His another uncle who raised him and his most beloved wife died in the same year

8-All of sons died and killed by God because he was supposed to be the last prophet and his sons weren't allowed to inherit the prophecy

9-He was told that his mother was going to ETERNAL HELL and he can't do anything about it, he went to her grave to cry

10-He got diseases more than the average people by the double as when he got fever the blanket on him with radiating heat from how strong the fever was

11-The Jews tried to poison him and that poison was eventually responsible for his death

12-The Jews again used magic to harm him

13-1400 years later, people still insult him and hate him when they have never even met or saw him or have any knowledge about him other than the media

Other prophets also suffered like prophet Jacob who went BLIND from how much he cried for losing his two most beloved sons, and prophet Issa (Jesus) who was tortured with his followers and had his mother being called whores by the Jews, most of the other prophets were insulted, kicked out, tortured, mocked, killed, died by horrible diseases, were poor and starving, etc. So yeah, suffering doesn't mean anything as no normal people would suffer as much as the prophets who are the best people and most close to God.

God isn't cruel, but it's just stupid for a weak ignorant human who lived 80 years at most to question the actions of a God who has infinite wisdom and power, can see the future and manipulate time and space, have infinite knowledge, has always existed and will always exist.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Admin » 4 months ago

Xexos wrote:
4 months ago
And to the second question, why is there's suffering in this world ? Because life doesn't matter.
Here it is again, the absolutely crucial difference between Christianity and Islam. Which makes it so difficult for Christians to devalue any human life, and so easy for genocidal radical Muslims to literally make dozens of human beings explode along with themselves.

Yes I know you have a bag full of rationalizations to attack that reality, but that's just how reality has laid itself out, it's the world we live in, there are virtually no Christians or Jews who blow themselves and other innocents while shouting "God is great/the peace of Christ"! That's because you can't use Christianity to enable and justify such atrocities.

While even if it's misinterpreted, even if you'll claim that those people are stupid and cannot read, they find something in those books, in that ideology, in that cultural framework that quite easily leads them there.
Xexos wrote:
4 months ago
11-The Jews tried to poison him and that poison was eventually responsible for his death

12-The Jews again used magic to harm him

13-1400 years later, people still insult him and hate him when they have never even met or saw him or have any knowledge about him other than the media

Other prophets also suffered like prophet Jacob who went BLIND from how much he cried for losing his two most beloved sons, and prophet Issa (Jesus) who was tortured with his followers and had his mother being called whores by the Jews
And then yeah, there is the inevitable antisemitism, part of the package I guess. Truly admirable, life doesn't matter, God sends humans to the eternal flames of hell and also, Jews are evil, I'm sure Evil is sold!

My turn now :p.

To pick up where Xexos left off after that statement that life doesn't matter: Christians also believe (This will get complicated already, but I'll go back to more simple ideas in a second): you will not be saved unless everyone else is saved. We all know this deeply, and it's why we have that deep feeling of joy during a movie when they make sure that seemingly expandable person the protagonists could have left to die miraculously get saved. It's also something that happens regularly in real life, again for those who are able to see it.

God loves us all and believes we can all be saved. And it's the holding on to that belief that will eventually redeem mankind. This belief is at the basis of our Western legal systems: the presumption of innocence, the fact that it's extremely hard to have someone convicted, the idea that it's better that 100 guilty men go free that one innocent man ends up behind bars or in some parts of the West, dead. This is also an idea that you can't ever compromise on, and sadly it is actually flipped on its head outside of the Christian West: where sharia is the law of the land, get/pay 4 witnesses and you can get anyone imprisoned or killed. Again, we see daily where those ideas get us.

Science was never meant to be opposed to religion, and some scientists have tried to reconcile the two, like Carl Jung and Jean Piaget, but even they have failed to reach mainstream atheists and agnostics. On the other side you have religious fundamentalists who think they have to give up all the science contradicting their religious texts, or so they think. The truth is that our world doesn't run primarily on science, and it never will (sorry Sam Harris and the atheists who still believe in that pipe dream).

Our world runs on trust, and for a while, many people in the West have put their trust in science, reason, logic and technological progress to solve its problems. And I myself have traveled to the end of that journey, only to realize that it was a dead-end. You've exhausted all possible rational answer, and no that Scientific American in your bookmarks is never going to give you the answers you want.

The first extremely intense moment I felt that something was changing in me was right after I met my fiancée. As many of you know, she wasn't the only one at the time, I was still dating around, and of course, at first I thought "let's be rational here, think about muh science, be rational, I'm sure you could just keep your old lifestyle, just sleep around, the hedonism, the freedom!", and that's when it started, this feeling I was burning from the inside.

There is this idea in Christianity, and I guess Judaism that if someone sees the face of God, they will die. And it seems that God only partly reveals himself to you in your lowest moments so to speak, like when I had to make the choice to go exclusive with my girlfriend, it's like I had to do it to make the the shame, the pain, that burning sensation go away, it was sort of a sacrifice to God, and deep down, I knew it was what I had to do. So I did.

Only months before that, that moment would have been impossible for me to even conceive. In the space of a few months, I go from "I'll never get married" to that discussion with my fiancée after one month of dating: "I want to get married and have children with you!" and I'm like "Oh yeah sure, that sounds like a wonderful idea!"

And somehow, as you make good choices, choices that please God, the path forward becomes clearer. And I keep making weird decisions in the face of that shame, that sensation that I'm lacking, like starting to lift weights for example, after having like written a book rationalizing how I'd never do it on hair loss forums :p.

In mid-2017 I'm exposed to the one person who has managed to move a ball that no one has managed to move in the history of mankind, at least on such a large scale: Jordan Peterson shows me the way out of atheism. Sadly this was not something instantaneous, this only starts happening after watching hundreds of hours of his content. And this time it's not a burning sensation, more like a sensation that I'm going mad, but it's pleasant somehow, it was a feeling that my mind was restructuring, I cannot put it better than that.

But that still didn't do it, even though Jordan Peterson made me believe in God again, I was not a Christian, and it was Jonathan Pageau, an Orthodox icon carver who led me down the path to become a Christian. You'd think my conversion it was all roses and rainbows but one thing that has definitely sped up the process is an encounter with evil (not you :p, actual evil), and seeing what happens when you confront it head on. It makes you realize more than anything else of how our world is properly set to reward those who try to follow God (shit I really sound like those guys now :p). I will not say more but most of you here will know what I'm talking about: after all, that confrontation with evil created this very website and community.

And that leads me to the difference between evil and tragedy, which was your initial question, and I'll let younger Jordan Peterson answer that one, (and sorry, I first put a 2 minute summary of that video but that just won't do it):



So here I am now, preparing my Christian wedding, going to church regularly, having to hold my tears during every mass because all of it is just all too damn beautiful, which is not a good look in front of my fiancée but she understands :p. Unlike Xexos, I know I can't convince you that I'm right as it's a pathway you have to experience for yourself, if you're willing to to take it voluntarily. All I can say, for myself, is that there is simply no comparison between my life before Christianity and after it. Everything is so much better I can't believe it, and it's not comparable to the fleeting self-delusion and shallow sense of happiness a self-help book will give you for a couple of days, trust me I knew all about that. It's a lasting, genuine happiness that truly sustains you in the face of the inevitable tragedies of life.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by yettee » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
And about the topic at hand, I'm sure atheists like pjhair are mostly right, it's just that I fail to see the benefits of a materialistic account of the origin of the universe.
So... as a Christian, do you believe in a God that actually exists and created mankind and everything else? And a Jesus that existed/exists and is the son of God, in reality? Or is that you agree with and feel enriched by the value system of Christianity but not that there is literally a God and Jesus etc?

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by That Guy » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
And then yeah, there is the inevitable antisemitism, part of the package I guess. Truly admirable, life doesn't matter, God sends humans to the eternal flames of hell and also, Jews are evil, I'm sure Evil is sold!
It's pretty clear that no matter what is put before you concerning them, you will "refuse" to accept that Jews are the ones at the fore of most of the ideologies you claim to despise, including the mass Islam and friends presence in central Europe, but I've noticed you are gradually coming around to.

Mark my words, It will not take long before we see you do a complete 180 on a lot of your previous politic stances. I'm serious — in a couple years, maybe not even that, you'll be right behind this globo-homo stuff. The open borders, the "Islam is a religion of peace", "but not all" (you already do this one), "feminism is about equality", and maybe even "But that's not real socialism"!

Why? Because at this point, there is no way a guy of your intelligence and involvement in these subjects is NOT aware of the realities of the JQ. Anyone who would claim to not be in the face of all these jews in every position of power you can think of, all advocating this shit, and clearly stating they're behind it and this is what they want, would be an idiot — and you're not an idiot.

No, you've decided — through a certain frog-voiced Canadians lecturing — that white nationalism is the worst thing ever because reasons. Jews > Nationalists and as you come more into acceptance of your alliance with them, so too will you accept more of their ideas.

Anyway, this whole "who or what created the universe" discussion the most pointless I've seen on any of these sites, but I don't want you to respond to this post, Fred. I just want you to have a real honest think with yourself about one thing:

When shit really goes bad; I'm talking full on civil war and racial violence in the streets. Who do you think is going to stand between you and your family and an angry mob? Jews, or racists like me?

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

yettee wrote:
3 months ago
So... as a Christian, do you believe in a God that actually exists and created mankind and everything else? And a Jesus that existed/exists and is the son of God, in reality? Or is that you agree with and feel enriched by the value system of Christianity but not that there is literally a God and Jesus etc?
I started feeling enriched by the value system Christianity offers and ended up being all in.

I believe God exists and created mankind and everything in the universe.

I also believe that God entered his creation as his son Jesus Christ, and that's where it gets more complicated :p.
That Guy wrote:
3 months ago
It's pretty clear that no matter what is put before you concerning them, you will "refuse" to accept that Jews are the ones at the fore of most of the ideologies you claim to despise, including the mass Islam and friends presence in central Europe, but I've noticed you are gradually coming around to.

Mark my words, It will not take long before we see you do a complete 180 on a lot of your previous politic stances. I'm serious — in a couple years, maybe not even that, you'll be right behind this globo-homo stuff. The open borders, the "Islam is a religion of peace", "but not all" (you already do this one), "feminism is about equality", and maybe even "But that's not real socialism"!

Why? Because at this point, there is no way a guy of your intelligence and involvement in these subjects is NOT aware of the realities of the JQ. Anyone who would claim to not be in the face of all these jews in every position of power you can think of, all advocating this shit, and clearly stating they're behind it and this is what they want, would be an idiot — and you're not an idiot.

No, you've decided — through a certain frog-voiced Canadians lecturing — that white nationalism is the worst thing ever because reasons. Jews > Nationalists and as you come more into acceptance of your alliance with them, so too will you accept more of their ideas.

Anyway, this whole "who or what created the universe" discussion the most pointless I've seen on any of these sites, but I don't want you to respond to this post, Fred. I just want you to have a real honest think with yourself about one thing:

When shit really goes bad; I'm talking full on civil war and racial violence in the streets. Who do you think is going to stand between you and your family and an angry mob? Jews, or racists like me?
To be honest, I just find this hate of Jews dull. Evil people are evil people, and you're going to find them among the Jews, the left, the right, even the Christians! And those people are their enablers are what we should focus on. It's like you want to use a hammer (civil war) to solve all the problems our Western society face.

As I've said, violence is bound to come but you can choose whether you add to it or not. As Jonathan Pageau (and not Jordan Peterson) explains in the video below, you can't play that game without tainting and harming yourself in the process. Make no mistake, we see the boiling rage, the hate when you speak, especially about the Jews who have become an obsession for you.



And again, that irrational hate is so common and has been so common through history (we've also seen where it leads many, many times) that it's just... dull. There's nothing productive at the end of that tunnel That Guy, if you think you're going to be able to build something solid on the corpses of the people you perceive as your ennemies, you're wrong, and I pray that you'll realize it someday.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by That Guy » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
3 months ago
There's nothing productive at the end of that tunnel That Guy, if you think you're going to be able to build something solid on the corpses of the people you perceive as your ennemies, you're wrong, and I pray that you'll realize it someday.
I have already reached the end of the "tunnel" you're talking about.

At the end is a simple truth: Racial groups exist, and it is those groups that make a nation. The USA or France right now can't rightly be called a nation. They've been reduced to mere economic "zones". I advocate for the existence of nations.

You identify a group. You call it "evil".

What I accept that you don't, is that certain ethnic groups — and not simply individuals — are more prone to behaviors that our group would consider "evil" or otherwise antithetical to our culture and way of life, and the only solution to this disparity is separation. When this is lost — war is the inevitable result.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by blackg » 3 months ago

That Guy wrote:
3 months ago
I have already reached the end of the "tunnel" you're talking about.

At the end is a simple truth: Racial groups exist, and it is those groups that make a nation. The USA or France right now can't rightly be called a nation. They've been reduced to mere economic "zones". I advocate for the existence of nations.

You identify a group. You call it "evil".

What I accept that you don't, is that certain ethnic groups — and not simply individuals — are more prone to behaviors that our group would consider "evil" or otherwise antithetical to our culture and way of life, and the only solution to this disparity is separation. When this is lost — war is the inevitable result.
You make some good points here. People on the whole are simpletons.
She packed my bags last night

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Pat » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
3 months ago
that irrational hate is so common and has been so common through history (we've also seen where it leads many, many times) that it's just... dull.
Irrational hate that has been so common through history as you say yourself, that's an oxymoron. You're so close to reaching a conclusion that's the polar opposite of what the rest of your post concluded in here. Do you really think an irrational hate will manifest itself countless times throughout history, or maybe it has basis in reality and thus isn't irrational?

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

Pat wrote:
3 months ago
Irrational hate that has been so common through history as you say yourself, that's an oxymoron. You're so close to reaching a conclusion that's the polar opposite of what the rest of your post concluded in here. Do you really think an irrational hate will manifest itself countless times throughout history, or maybe it has basis in reality and thus isn't irrational?
What happened to all those societies, those civilizations, those groups who gave in to that irrational hatred and carried it to its logical end (genocide)?

The Christian West is the big exception to that, because we had finally found a way to look at each other as individuals, which flooded the Western world with love, freedom and equality in a way that was never achieved by any civilization before that.

Now you have to give the devil his due: we took that idea too far and naively thought that importing Muslims was a good idea, that they would eventually submit to the greatness of our ideas, and I still believed it happened to an extent, even though a lot of them are not conscious of it or retreat to Islam and think that there's something better lying there, if only the whole world would convert (sorry revert!) to it.

And those are only the organic problems that importing those people have created. On the other side, you have that minority of people who want to subvert all the good things the West has achieved: the ideologues on the radical left, the postmodernists, so consumed by their own narcissism and their hatred of being that they'll work diligently to burn it to the ground. So their alliance with radical Muslims is no surprise.

Like in the video by Jonathan Pageau I posted above, you're not as separate from society as an individual as you think: irrational anger at the state of the world is part and parcel of your own life as a human being. We ourselves continually and mistakenly give in to those impulses that make us want to control everything (particularly other human beings), to bring purity into our lives, and every time, after the damage is done, and we look back, we realize that we've made everything worse.

It's something we do over and over again as human beings, and a mistake we've repeatedly made through history, and no, just because it's frequent doesn't mean it's right. It's a sin, one of the worst kinds of sin, you want to give in to all your impulses because "it's the natural state of man", be my guest, and see where that takes you.

Aren't all our natural impulses (sex, hunger for power, will to control others, hubris, etc.) based in reality? Isn't this a given? Does that mean it's right to give in to them, that giving it to them brings about a better world? That's certainly not what history has shown us.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by pjhair » 3 months ago

That Guy wrote:
3 months ago
When shit really goes bad; I'm talking full on civil war and racial violence in the streets. Who do you think is going to stand between you and your family and an angry mob? Jews, or racists like me?
You are mistaken on this. When shit goes bad, Jews like @Afro_Vacancy, conservatives like me and fair minded liberals like @rclark, @yettee and @Hairblues will stand between an angry mob and good people like Fred and his family. And you know what man? I will fight for your family too.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by nameless » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
He does show Himself, to those who want to see.

...

:pepe-rage:
1. This is another iteration of saying "god is magic" and "The lord works in mysterious ways" that religious sheep fall-back on when they don't have a good answer to a question that challenges their belief in god.

2. And for the record, I want to see god. I have asked god to show himself to me many times. When Mother Teresa died her diaries were a big story in the news because it was discovered that Mother Teresa asked god to show himself to her many times and she said he never did.

3. I've had some people tell me they've seen god and then years later tell me that they didn't really see god.

4. By appearing to some people god is building a better relationship with those people than the people he does not show himself to. Why would god buld better relationships with some of his children than others? I thought god loves us all equally. Does god love some of us more than others? Why would god like some of us more than others?
Last edited by nameless 3 months ago, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
Afro_Vacancy is going to have a field day with this one :p.
@Xexos will figure things out on his own.

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by nameless » 3 months ago

Admin wrote:
4 months ago
He does show Himself, to those who want to see.

...

:pepe-rage:
Are you saying that you have seen god's living physical body and talked directly with god and he talked back to you?

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Re: Debunking the Big Bang theory

Post by Admin » 3 months ago

nameless wrote:
3 months ago
Are you saying that you have seen god's living physical body and talked directly with god and he talked back to you?
It was more in the sense of hints that point to his existence, I haven't had no beardes man in a robe talk to me no.

I know it's the idea materialists have in their head when someone talks about their relationship with the infinite.

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