Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by That Guy » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
It's of course disgusting to support immigration with an aim to eradicate the native population. However, just because some lunatic Jewish writer may have supported this idea it doesn't mean you can simply hold all Jews responsible. In order to place culpability on Jews you would have to show the following two things:

(1) Jews in general support support uncontrolled immigration because they want to eradicate native European population.

(2) Judaism endorses such a belief.

Remember, just showing that most Jews in the west support multiculturalism is not enough. People may support multiculturalism for benign reasons as well. For example, they genuinely enjoy living with people from different cultures.



Where is the data to support your theory? I have never heard of prominent conservative thinkers claiming that their aim is demographic replacement. What evidence do you have to support your claim that conservative's in general have this appalling aim?



i strongly disagree with you here. Perhaps you want to live in a country that only grants citizenship to whites. There is nothing wrong with that. You are free to choose what kind of country you want to live in. It's your house so you make the rules. If tomorrow Japan decides that they only want to grant citizenship to people of east Asian ethnicity, I would have no problem with that either. However, the problem with your vision is that many of your fellow white men/women don't share it. At least not in North America. They do want to live in a more diverse society. As you live in the same country as them, they should have a say in the matter as well. So what do you think should happen? Should white North American countries further get divided between countries that want a diverse population and countries that don't? Or do you advocate just taking over these countries by force and implement your vision? Or perhaps you believe that white men/women who DO want to live in diverse population are minuscule in number. If so, can you show me data that supports your claim?
Conservatives want immigration from the third world but legally.

Thing that woke me up to cons was when I saw it pointed out by a number of people that there have been an equal number of democrat and republican presidents now since ww2, but for some baffling reason, only one side of the political spectrum has got what they want. Think about that. Everything has steered hard left no matter who is in power.

Look at how conservatives counter signal to prove how totally not racist they are and shit. They want to get "the black/hispanic/muslim, etc." vote and will literally propose strategies for how they can get these demographics to vote for them. Yet, they never get those demographics voting for them (as I've shown) because the left explicitly panders to that demographic.

Second of all, there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that anyone but the most subverted of SJWs actually "wants" more "diversity". There was never, and you will find no example, of homogeneous countries in the past ever wanting more foreigners. Because why the hell would you? Most want fewer immigrants as I linked a few pages back.

Strange how all these "enriched" white countries are starting to riot. Strange how once you live among these foreigners and not in an ivory tower, you begin to realize how shit this is.

Nobody in the public ever voted directly in favor of these policies and you can ONLY vote for these policies in America and Canada. Multiculturalism only exists in the west and exists purely to provide an unending source of voters for politicians and labor for business. Full stop.

Lastly, even if people "want" something it doesn't mean that thing is good. Most people, on paper, would want universal basic incomes, state-funded everything, etc. but guess what? It's still a bad idea in practice.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by pjhair » 5 months ago

That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
Second of all, there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that anyone but the most subverted of SJWs actually "wants" more "diversity". There was never, and you will find no example, of homogeneous countries in the past ever wanting more foreigners. Because why the hell would you? Most want fewer immigrants as I linked a few pages back.
I haven't followed this thread very closely so I may have missed your link. I will go back and try to find it. But from what I have seen, the number of whites in north America who support legal immigration is far from minuscule.
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
Lastly, even if people "want" something it doesn't mean that thing is good. Most people, on paper, would want universal basic incomes, state-funded everything, etc. but guess what? It's still a bad idea in practice.
People have different ideas about what's good for them. You have your vision and other have theirs. Democracy is a great system that enables people to co-exist peacefully despite these differences. However institutions such as academia and media need to be fair in order for a democracy to function optimally. My concern is that over representation of radical left ideas in academia and media has skewed the ideological balance that is causing a great divide among people. I am a conservative and I will hate to see conservatives dominate the academia and media as I don't consider that to be healthy for a democracy and by extension good for a nation. Without democracy people with different worldview would continue to clash until the group with more power wins.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by yettee » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
If I remember the data correctly, vast majority of American Muslims were against the Iraq war. So were the Muslims in the rest of the world (except Shias who were treated terribly by Saddam who was Sunni).
I’m referring to how the war caused chaos in Iraq and across the Middle East (and of course these groups grow and thrive in chaos), how it was and is used as a powerful recruiting tool for those groups, how it was executed based on lies and without any strategy whatsoever for what would happen the day after Hussein and the govt there inevitably fell. It was, and really theres no debate about this, a net plus for those groups. I dont think youd find many extremists who would say, I wish we could go back in time and stop that war from happening.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by That Guy » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
My concern is that over representation of radical left ideas in academia and media has skewed the ideological balance that is causing a great divide among people. I am a conservative and I will hate to see conservatives dominate the academia and media as I don't consider that to be healthy for a democracy
This where we differ because I don't care what is healthy for democracy. I care about what is healthy for the people.
pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
Without democracy people with different worldview would continue to clash until the group with more power wins.
I disagree. The battleground for differing worldviews IS democracy.

As far as I can recall, most of the new or old worlds didn't democratically elect leaders until around the 20th Century. There is this idea that democracy and freedom are the same thing and that in previous times, everything was absolute tyranny and sucked for everyone but the king. This is just not true.

What democracy superfans basically believe is this:

"I'm "free" simply because I can vote for who leads me, but I still want someone to lead us and I want that leader to share my moral views. BUT being lead by one person who wasn't voted in, even if their ideas are good for us and our families is inherently not freedom because it's not democratic and therefore I'm against it even if the results are the same as had that leader been elected."

Nobody actually cares about this. If Hillary got in via military coup, all the left would 100% support her lasting reign because she represents their ideals. Same for the Trump people.

You could have all the same freedoms you do now or more under a king or some other totalitarian rule. There's simply no logical reason why you couldn't and we have no western examples of true authoritarianism to compare against our "democracies". Childless Theresa May doesn't give a fuck about the UK, she just cares about herself. When she's done, she can fuck off to the beaches of Monaco while the UK burns. If you have no one to leave your kingdom to, you have no incentive to do anything but line your own pockets, then that's just what you'll do. Dictators in shithole countries where even water is a rare commodity also have no reason to give a shit about anyone but themselves.

If you are truly democratic, you'll be against presidents and stuff entirely. Instead, the people should have 100% of the power and vote on every single issue directly.

But you don't live in that, even now. You just vote for who you want in power and they and various tiers take it from there and ask you about absolutely nothing and honor absolutely no petition or polls. Are you still sure you're not living in a form of dictatorship already and democracy is just the illusion of choice?

I don't care about democracy, it's just a means to an end and not an end itself. I care about people, and believe that protecting its native people and ensuring they can raise their families in a safe, prosperous land is the first and most important duty of a government. China needs to care about the Chinese, India need only care about Indians, and Europe should only prioritize Europeans (white people).

Much like "Hair matters", I will take this conviction with me to the grave.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by Admin » 5 months ago

Just yesterday, I went to a sound and light show in the historical center of my city, it was simply breathtaking, with Italian opera music and angels soaring in the sky in front of the cathedral:

Image

And of course, since I was the only evil racist who could event think about that, I scanned the crowd, hoping to find hijabs, Arab men, come on, there should be at least some Arab families who came for the pleasure of their children? No, there were only white European people there, as far as the eye could see.

And that makes me sad, and it also reminds me of a painful reality: they don't respect our culture, they don't really want to be here. Even my Muslim best friend has admitted that to me on a couple of occasions: he just doesn't feel at home here. But of course, life here remains infinitely better than in their country of origin.

But yeah, it's those small things, things many people especially on the left will just refuse to see. Should I even air my darkest thoughts about this here? Ah come on, here it goes: they don't just hate our culture, our religion, our music, our greatness (do you see my mustache growing?!), they're secretly waiting for the right moment to subjugate us. Their religion and culture has the perfect structure for that takeover and it's already started with the now innumerable terrorist attacks all over Europe.

Of course it would be their own extremists and violent authoritarians who would start doing the dirty work, but make no mistake, Mahmud the shopkeeper secretly approves. The Muslims I've seen strongly disapprove with those attacks were what I can the organic gluten-free Muslims, like the Albanians or Syrians around here that don't take Islam very seriously. But most Muslims' take on the spreading Islamic terror: silence, and this tells us everything we need to know.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by blackg » 5 months ago

Admin wrote:
5 months ago
Just yesterday, I went to a sound and light show in the historical center of my city, it was simply breathtaking, with Italian opera music and angels soaring in the sky in front of the cathedral:

Image

And of course, since I was the only evil racist who could event think about that, I scanned the crowd, hoping to find hijabs, Arab men, come on, there should be at least some Arab families who came for the pleasure of their children? No, there were only white European people there, as far as the eye could see.

And that makes me sad, and it also reminds me of a painful reality: they don't respect our culture, they don't really want to be here. Even my Muslim best friend has admitted that to me on a couple of occasions: he just doesn't feel at home here. But of course, life here remains infinitely better than in their country of origin.

But yeah, it's those small things, things many people especially on the left will just refuse to see. Should I even air my darkest thoughts about this here? Ah come on, here it goes: they don't just hate our culture, our religion, our music, our greatness (do you see my mustache growing?!), they're secretly waiting for the right moment to subjugate us. Their religion and culture has the perfect structure for that takeover and it's already started with the now innumerable terrorist attacks all over Europe.

Of course it would be their own extremists and violent authoritarians who would start doing the dirty work, but make no mistake, Mahmud the shopkeeper secretly approves. The Muslims I've seen strongly disapprove with those attacks were what I can the organic gluten-free Muslims, like the Albanians or Syrians around here that don't take Islam very seriously. But most Muslims' take on the spreading Islamic terror: silence, and this tells us everything we need to know.
True muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, just not the messiah

So they are happy for you to celebrate Christmas while they respectfully abstain.
My guess is you would be insulted to see "towel heads" at your Christmas celebrations anyway.

Praise be to Allah.
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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by Admin » 5 months ago

blackg wrote:
5 months ago
True muslims regard Jesus as a prophet just not the messiah.
I know, that's one of the crucial differences between Christian and Muslims.

"Jesus is just a prophet", he's not the son of God, he's not God who has chosen to enter his creation to earn our genuine respect (how I see it), there's no trinity, no decomposition of God into a concept that ultimately gives birth to fundamental Western ideas like freedom, equality, and the divinity of truthful speech uttered by the divine individual.

As I've explained before, that's the main reason why the West is as close as we've gotte to heaven on earth and the Muslim world is as close as one can be to hell in 2018.

Edit: after giving it a second thought, I'm open to the possibility that the remaining communist countries are closer to hell.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by rclark » 5 months ago

yettee wrote:
5 months ago
I’m referring to how the war caused chaos in Iraq and across the Middle East (and of course these groups grow and thrive in chaos), how it was and is used as a powerful recruiting tool for those groups, how it was executed based on lies and without any strategy whatsoever for what would happen the day after Hussein and the govt there inevitably fell. It was, and really theres no debate about this, a net plus for those groups. I dont think youd find many extremists who would say, I wish we could go back in time and stop that war from happening.
It was completely for oil. No doubt about it.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by pjhair » 5 months ago

That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
This where we differ because I don't care what is healthy for democracy. I care about what is healthy for the people.
Of course. Well being of people is the ultimate goal even for defenders of democracy such as me. However, we see democracy as the best tool to move towards that goal.
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
I disagree. The battleground for differing worldviews IS democracy.

As far as I can recall, most of the new or old worlds didn't democratically elect leaders until around the 20th Century. There is this idea that democracy and freedom are the same thing and that in previous times, everything was absolute tyranny and sucked for everyone but the king. This is just not true.
There is data that supports that we are living in a golden age(Please read the book Better Angels Of Our Nature if you haven’t). People are happier, healthier and wealthier than they have ever been. It’s a result of democracy, progress in science, evolution of ethical framework induced by great thinkers and writers, etc. The ideas such as freedom of expression and press have no doubt played an extremely important role. These ideas can only thrive in a democracy.
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
What democracy superfans basically believe is this:
"I'm "free" simply because I can vote for who leads me, but I still want someone to lead us and I want that leader to share my moral views. BUT being lead by one person who wasn't voted in, even if their ideas are good for us and our families is inherently not freedom because it's not democratic and therefore I'm against it even if the results are the same as had that leader been elected."
In a democracy we delegate the responsibility to make policies to the elected officials. We hire them for the job. They are not there to lead us. We simply vote for people who we think have ideas that’s in our best interest. If a citizen, such as yourself, wants to be a leader instead of being led, you are free to run for the office. That’s the great thing about democracy. You can be a leader if people like your ideas. Can you really hope to be a leader in a dictatorship or an oligarchy?
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
Nobody actually cares about this. If Hillary got in via military coup, all the left would 100% support her lasting reign because she represents their ideals. Same for the Trump people.
That’s simply not true. Had President Trump came to power through a military coup, I wouldn’t support him at all. Democratic process is extremely sacred to me as I believe it to be essential for well being of people in the long run. Ideas such as freedom of expression, press, etc, have played the single most important role in advancement of humanity in modern time. Attack on them is attack on well being of humanity. I will never support a military coup that undermines a democratic process. One the reasons I am so angry at radical left is because of their attack on freedom of expression. They throw a tantrum and resort to violence when people who don’t hold the same views as them are invited to college campuses. They demand that careers of journalists and professors be ended because they said something that goes against their views. They call people racist for criticizing Islam and try to shut down all conversations on the topic. They demonize whites by yelling “slavery” but refuse to question other races whose past is just as bad. In short, radical leftists are undermining democracy and are not practicing TRUE EQUALITY. That’s precisely why I have such a contempt for them.

However, we have open minded left leaning individuals on this forum such as @yettee and @rclark . I don’t think they would have supported Hillary had she come to power through a military coup. Outside of radical extremist groups like Antifa, I refuse to believe that any leftist or liberal would have supported such a thing. But perhaps I am wrong. In that case, can you show me a poll or a data indicating that I am wrong and most liberal/leftist would have supported a coup?
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
If you are truly democratic, you'll be against presidents and stuff entirely. Instead, the people should have 100% of the power and vote on every single issue directly.
We have presidents and stuff because WE decided it to be that way. However, if people are unhappy about the way our institutions are set up, they can change it. If they want a referendum on every issue, they can demand that as well. We have that power in a democracy. However, we have chosen not to call referendum on every issue for various legitimate reasons. One of the most important reasons is that we are not experts on everything and have a limited bandwidth.
That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
But you don't live in that, even now. You just vote for who you want in power and they and various tiers take it from there and ask you about absolutely nothing and honor absolutely no petition or polls. Are you still sure you're not living in a form of dictatorship already and democracy is just the illusion of choice?
That’s simply not true. Politicians do listen to people. There have been various instances in which public outcry has resulted in reversal of policies. However, if a politician doesn’t listen to people, we can simply vote him out of the power and elect an individual who represents our views. That can’t happen in a dictatorship or oligarchy.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by That Guy » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
Of course. Well being of people is the ultimate goal even for defenders of democracy such as me. However, we see democracy as the best tool to move towards that goal.



There is data that supports that we are living in a golden age(Please read the book Better Angels Of Our Nature if you haven’t). People are happier, healthier and wealthier than they have ever been. It’s a result of democracy, progress in science, evolution of ethical framework induced by great thinkers and writers, etc. The ideas such as freedom of expression and press have no doubt played an extremely important role. These ideas can only thrive in a democracy.



In a democracy we delegate the responsibility to make policies to the elected officials. We hire them for the job. They are not there to lead us. We simply vote for people who we think have ideas that’s in our best interest. If a citizen, such as yourself, wants to be a leader instead of being led, you are free to run for the office. That’s the great thing about democracy. You can be a leader if people like your ideas. Can you really hope to be a leader in a dictatorship or an oligarchy?



That’s simply not true. Had President Trump came to power through a military coup, I wouldn’t support him at all. Democratic process is extremely sacred to me as I believe it to be essential for well being of people in the long run. Ideas such as freedom of expression, press, etc, have played the single most important role in advancement of humanity in modern time. Attack on them is attack on well being of humanity. I will never support a military coup that undermines a democratic process. One the reasons I am so angry at radical left is because of their attack on freedom of expression. They throw a tantrum and resort to violence when people who don’t hold the same views as them are invited to college campuses. They demand that careers of journalists and professors be ended because they said something that goes against their views. They call people racist for criticizing Islam and try to shut down all conversations on the topic. They demonize whites by yelling “slavery” but refuse to question other races whose past is just as bad. In short, radical leftists are undermining democracy and are not practicing TRUE EQUALITY. That’s precisely why I have such a contempt for them.

However, we have open minded left leaning individuals on this forum such as @yettee and @rclark . I don’t think they would have supported Hillary had she come to power through a military coup. Outside of radical extremist groups like Antifa, I refuse to believe that any leftist or liberal would have supported such a thing. But perhaps I am wrong. In that case, can you show me a poll or a data indicating that I am wrong and most liberal/leftist would have supported a coup?



We have presidents and stuff because WE decided it to be that way. However, if people are unhappy about the way our institutions are set up, they can change it. If they want a referendum on every issue, they can demand that as well. We have that power in a democracy. However, we have chosen not to call referendum on every issue for various legitimate reasons. One of the most important reasons is that we are not experts on everything and have a limited bandwidth.



That’s simply not true. Politicians do listen to people. There have been various instances in which public outcry has resulted in reversal of policies. However, if a politician doesn’t listen to people, we can simply vote him out of the power and elect an individual who represents our views. That can’t happen in a dictatorship or oligarchy.
The demographic replacement that is happening is so that you CAN'T vote them out, dude.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by pjhair » 5 months ago

That Guy wrote:
5 months ago
The demographic replacement that is happening is so that you CAN'T vote them out, dude.
That's why I support really strict immigration laws and support President Trump's proposed Muslim ban. But that's what I personally want. If majority of people don't want that, then who am I to try to force my views on them? But do majority of people want that? We have elections to find that out.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by yettee » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
In short, radical leftists are undermining democracy and are not practicing TRUE EQUALITY. That’s precisely why I have such a contempt for them.

However, we have open minded left leaning individuals on this forum such as @yettee and @rclark . I don’t think they would have supported Hillary had she come to power through a military coup. Outside of radical extremist groups like Antifa, I refuse to believe that any leftist or liberal would have supported such a thing. But perhaps I am wrong.
You're not wrong. I voted for Hillary (and would do so again). There is no way in the world I would support her if she came to power through a coup. Nor would anyone I know, not even close.

I'd like to address something else though, the "leftists undermining democracy" comment. You know... I find it ironic that in the midst of a conversation with someone on the right who literally wants to do away with democracy, saying things like this: "You could have all the same freedoms you do now or more under a king or some other totalitarian rule." and this "What I want to see, and I do think the wheels are in motion for is the following: An ethnonationalist government, the abolition of democracy for determining succession of power" , still there isn't a hint that the right might also have a role in undermining democracy. Our moderator constantly mentions the "authoritarians on the left", while the only true authoritarians (and yes its plural, if you look carefully another poster on the right said he agreed with the idea of doing away with democracy) here are on the right. I would posit that this is not just a phenomenon of this forum. There are countries with rightist leaders, and you know what they are, that are currently restricting or completely taking over the press, taking control of the judicial system, indimidating and expelling activists with whom they politically disagree. These are all textbook authoritarian moves and if you believe in democracy it's really bad news, whether or not you agree with their positions on immigration or anything else. ... Obviously and of course there are also numerous authoritarians on the left, I readily admit it. But I think it might be time to divorce the authoritarianism accusation from the right/left debate. People on the left accuse the right of being authoritarian, people on the right accuse the left of being authoritarian. In fact there are numerous authoritarians on both sides.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by rclark » 5 months ago

When I think of right wing goverment, and a dictatorship with people of the same ethnic background, the
first leader that comes into my mind is Kim Jon Hun, of North Korea. He is a right wing fanatic.
It's interesting to see that the left is mentioned as a dictatorship, when there's several right wing
leaders, in addition to North Kora.

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by That Guy » 5 months ago

pjhair wrote:
5 months ago
That's why I support really strict immigration laws and support President Trump's proposed Muslim ban. But that's what I personally want. If majority of people don't want that, then who am I to try to force my views on them? But do majority of people want that? We have elections to find that out.
I don't care if the majority don't "want" that until it's too late.

One of the differences between North America and Europe is that our muslims are spread out across a wider area. So there are plenty of people still unaware of the threat.

Most people just watch MSM, and go about their day without giving any thought to any of what we're talking about. They only believe democracy is good because that's what they've grown up being told. Just like they've grown up being told that being "racist" is the absolute worst thing you can be.

And again, you do not have the option of voting for someone right now who actually has a policy that could fix this, and even if you did, just like Trump, the house, congress, the senate. etc. all stand against him and vote "no" on anything he does! Some "fascist/dictator/tyrant!" Nothing he says ever goes!

The majority of the public simply cannot be trusted to do what has to be done. Most people are not going to shake the "caring about my race is bad" and "anything not democracy is bad" and even if they do, they will have no democratic option to get what they want. Even if you do somehow win democratically, it will not last and you cannot fix a country on 4 year term limits.

How do you suggest we fix this and remain democratic?

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Re: Africans have never built a major enduring city in 3000 years

Post by yettee » 5 months ago

rclark wrote:
5 months ago
When I think of right wing goverment, and a dictatorship with people of the same ethnic background, the
first leader that comes into my mind is Kim Jon Hun, of North Korea. He is a right wing fanatic.
It's interesting to see that the left is mentioned as a dictatorship, when there's several right wing
leaders, in addition to North Kora.
One aspect of authoritarian governments is that they often end up looking the same, left and right. Indeed, they abandoned the communist label in the 90s. This type of govt inevitably moves toward the whims of a single person.

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