Political compass test

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Re: Political compass test

Post by Admin » 2 months ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 months ago
It's a very good point that the political compass is an improperly weighted average.
How would you (or @yettee) have the test calculate the results, to make it produce a properly weighted average?
Afro_Vacancy wrote:
2 months ago
The related issue that I did think of is that the selection and phrasing of the questions is arbitrary.
What questions would you (again, or yettee :p) include in the test and how would you phrase them?
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Re: Political compass test

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 2 months ago

Admin wrote:
2 months ago
How would you (or @yettee) have the test calculate the results, to make it produce a properly weighted average?



What questions would you (again, or yettee :p) include in the test and how would you phrase them?
That is an incredibly difficult question and I can't claim to have a conpetent answer. I would need to give it a lot of thought.

I would be interested in seeing PC tests designed by people living in different societies and at different times, to see how people scores would change, and if they'd change. We know that political platforms themselves change, for example, the Republican party of the 1970s was much less pro life, and the Democratic party of the 1950s largely supported segregation.

I'd also be interested to see how political preference correlates with other factors such as the five personality axes that are heavily studied, attachment styles, birth order, etc.
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Re: Political compass test

Post by Rudiger » 2 months ago

yettee wrote:
2 months ago
Just to address this, in no way did I use an analogy to talk down to you or anyone else. For me, at least, an analogy can be a way to say what I want to say as clearly - in as simple words, as you put it above - as I can. So if anything it reveals a lack of confidence on the part of the person trying to make a point that he can make himself understood without using it, rather than an insult to the listener that he needs it for some reason.

And I think it's kind of obvious... why is using an analogy taken as a personal insult, like someone is being condescending? It's just a freakin analogy, yo. I don't think any of us would bother arguing about politics or anything else with people who we didn't respect intellectually.
This would be a lot more genuine if you wanted to stay on the point I actually replied to yours with, instead you come off as insincere. The analogy point was pretty irrelevant compared to the actual points I made before it, and you zoomed in on something of little worth, and now I wish I left it out.

Go back to my original post and look at the first few paragraphs, respond to that, otherwise you're full of shit.
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Re: Political compass test

Post by yettee » 2 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
Go back to my original post and look at the first few paragraphs, respond to that, otherwise you're full of shit.
LOL, "otherwise you're full of shit" isn't a motivator for me to go back and look at your previous posts. So, whatever. Great conversation.

Admin wrote:
2 months ago
How would you (or @yettee) have the test calculate the results, to make it produce a properly weighted average?

What questions would you (again, or yettee :p) include in the test and how would you phrase them?

Yeah, that's a good and tough question. I think I'd cut down on and thus focus the number of questions/statements, and then have participants weight how important each one is to them on a scale. So for example a statement could be something like "The government should prohibit all people other than hunters from owning firearms", and then scale it in personal importance from 1-10. So if a person strongly agreed and then rated it a 10, while rating other questions with much lower importance, the question would carry significantly more weight in skewing the compass (in this case, to the left).

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Re: Political compass test

Post by Rudiger » 2 months ago

Here's your motivator Yettee, you didn't address this whatsoever:
Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
It's not a test that decides which political parties a person will "side" with, but an overall basis of where they stand ideologically, and that shouldn't be weighted on their political activism, as their political activism is merely a reflection or rebellion against the environment they find themselves in. If a person focusses on a single issue then it doesn't change where they stand overall, even the political party they are supposedly aligned with forever could be radically different to their views in 20 years time.

That's the whole point of the test, Tommy Robinson would not be deemed "right" or "far right" by people sticking him in boxes because he is in an environment where he feels he has to react to a threat against his nation and community, otherwise he would be centrist. Being anti-immigration wouldn't enter his head as it's not a threat, and shouldn't be a threat. I think you've got this all wrong if you think a test which is designed in theory to last universally (whether or not you agree with the tests accuracy itself) is how someone will vote in an actual election next week, as political parties actual policies can change in a moment's notice (I'd say this about Conservatives and Democrats, and Tories and Labour). So a person voting what you deem "Right" now could have been "Left" only 12 years ago (I mean that literally as well, in particular with anti-immigration or border control).

Yes, you may say that a person who only cares about "H" is identified solely by that one personal opinion that you feel defines their character, but you have no idea how A B C D E also makes up who they are, as long as H is in there, that's all that matters. The other letters may be irrelevant because they don't affect that person's livelihood, but H? Must be defined by that. Even if H affects them solely, and they see how H is ruining their country in many ways. Do you not think that if H wasn't an issue, they wouldn't need to be defined like that? Because if it wasn't an issue, they'd be centrist.

That's the point.
The motivation is the challenge of realising you are either narrow minded or not, so far you haven't chosen "not".
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Re: Political compass test

Post by yettee » 2 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
The motivation is the challenge of realising you are either narrow minded or not, so far you haven't chosen "not".
Again, you don't have to add this nonsense, what's the point? A stranger needs to prove to you that he's not full of shit, not narrow minded? Why is it necessary for you to set things up like that, like an angry master? Chill out dude.

Anyway, as I see it, if a person really only cares about a couple of issues - for whatever reason - I don't know if you can fairly say that the "overall basis of where they stand ideologically" is somewhere far removed from those stances based on the answers to dozens of questions that are essentially irrelevent to them.

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Re: Political compass test

Post by Rudiger » 2 months ago

yettee wrote:
2 months ago
Again, you don't have to add this nonsense, what's the point? A stranger needs to prove to you that he's not full of shit, not narrow minded? Why is it necessary for you to set things up like that, like an angry master? Chill out dude.

Anyway, as I see it, if a person really only cares about a couple of issues - for whatever reason - I don't know if you can fairly say that the "overall basis of where they stand ideologically" is somewhere far removed from those stances based on the answers to dozens of questions that are essentially irrelevent to them.
You still haven't addressed the actual quote itself
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Re: Political compass test

Post by yettee » 2 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
You still haven't addressed the actual quote itself
I think it addresses the quote in its entirety. Whatever, we can disagree. I fully understand your main point and I think it's good, you laid it out well in the first sentence and then expanded on it. I don't think you're "full of shit", or pseudo-anything. But I'm also not motivated to write paragraphs in response to your "challenge of realising you are either narrow minded or not".

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Re: Political compass test

Post by Rudiger » 2 months ago

yettee wrote:
2 months ago
I think it addresses the quote in its entirety.
How?
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Re: Political compass test

Post by pjhair » 2 months ago

Admin wrote:
2 months ago
You're right Admin! How were you able to predict the future?!

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-ele ... nt-crisis/

I was re-reading this thread because of this video of Tommy Robinson taking the political compass test:



Pretty enlightening.
@Admin I meant to ask you this question earlier. What's your opinion on Vlaams Belang? Are they really extreme right as the article implies? Media call president Trump far right as well so I take their claims on issues like this with a grain of salt unless they present supporting evidence.
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Re: Political compass test

Post by yettee » 2 months ago

Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
How?
Rudiger wrote:
2 months ago
he is in an environment where he feels he has to react to a threat against his nation and community, otherwise he would be centrist. Being anti-immigration wouldn't enter his head as it's not a threat
I think you're making a nature/nurture judgement that's impossible to make. How do you know that a person's care and focus on one or two things is due to a factor specific to their current environment, or something else? For example, a statement on the test is "if economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." Maybe this is the only thing a person really feels strongly about, politics-wise. Well, there are people who feel that way in countries where corporations are relatively powerful (and thus perhaps a 'threat that people feel they need to react to'), but also in countries where they aren't. The same is true of immigration (in the US for example plenty of people welcome it, plenty of others see it as a threat, while many others simply don't care about it much compared to other issues - like myself) or many of the statements on the test. A person's ideology may be shaped by and heavily influenced by their feeling about only one or two issues, and it may be because "he's in an environment where he feels he has to react to a threat against his nation and community", as you put it... or it may be because a parent influences a child a certain way, or it may be because of some innate trait. Who knows? You'd need a far different test to even attempt to parse what would and wouldn't enter a person's head, as you put it above, in a different environment.

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Re: Political compass test

Post by Admin » 2 months ago

pjhair wrote:
2 months ago
@Admin I meant to ask you this question earlier. What's your opinion on Vlaams Belang? Are they really extreme right as the article implies? Media call president Trump far right as well so I take their claims on issues like this with a grain of salt unless they present supporting evidence.
Oh that's a hard one. Alright, the truth? As Vlaams Belang representative Sam Van Rooy, who I admire a lot (as well as his father Wim Van Rooy) says: "Far-right? There is no far-right in Belgium since being far-right was actually outlawed after World War II." No one is claiming ethnic superiority or segregation anymore. But people are still claiming equity (equality of outcome, or communism) and disdain towards the privileged class (who transmuted into cisgender straight white males). Only one extreme is illegal, which create this dangerous imbalance.

Now the game that some people I know play is saying that "yeah Vlaams Belang may appear right-wing, but deep down, they're still vile racists!" And then they cite isolated examples of one of their fringe members saying that they hate foreigners. "See!" They actually exclude those members immediately, but you know how all conspiracy theories work, right? It's all part of the plan to make themselves look moderate, they still have those secret meetings underground in which they drink pure Flemish beer and talk about the oppression of minorities, women, homosexuals, Jews, etc.

Now let's play the devil's advocate of the people who say they are extreme-right. The party was truly funded by ex-nazis, it used to be called the Vlaams Block and had to change its name because it got outlawed (see?) due to the fact that three of their antennas had distributed racist flyers. So it's sort of the aura the party has, and it's hard to move away from it. People will play the game of showing their history all the time, and I get why it works for their detractors and evil people on the fence.

I wouldn't vote for them, I actually don't, and I remain suspicious of them to an extent. But they have some intelligent members who are not actually racist which I like to read, like Sam Van Rooy, very well-spoken and actually saying something of substance, which helps me perfect my Dutch. And that goes without saying, I don't agree with everything he says either (Jesus what times do we live in that you have to say that all the time!), for example, he says that he doesn't like Chinese neighborhoods, he wants everything to remain Flemish! Meh, I guess I remain a leftist cuck on that kind of issue.

So I guess the answer is yes and no. What I always tell people pouring their vitriol on them (or worse their voters) is: why the hell do you think this happens? Why can't your parties propose something better? The mainstream political parties in Belgium are really hopeless in that regard, at the exception of the NVA, which is still quite popular but has also lost voters to the Vlaams Belang. They don't talk about any subject that would actually interest the voters, they don't dare to speak frankly about immigration, islamization, the climate change hysteria, etc. And our citizens aren't that dull or stupid.

And no, their decision to vote for them, just like the decision of Americans to vote for Trump is not racism, maybe it is for a small minority of them. But it's mostly knee-jerk self-preservation in the fact of the constant assault they face from the radical left, only the other day, someone replied to me on social media: "Trump voters are all white men from the countryside, with no higher education who believe in God". I replied to him, what's wrong with any of those attributes? And he of course he said: "Well they're all racist, just like you!" Those morons are making things worse and pushing people even more to the right. "I'm attacking you at the core of your being but please be nice and submit to me, to the educated left from the big cities, we know what's good for you!"

Now the same pattern is emerging all over Europe: most of its citizens are scared, like to the core of their being, of the future, of losing their home, and I'm not talking about their physical home, but their sense of belonging. It's something to take very seriously if we want to bring people back to the center, to voting for moderate parties. They need to start tackling those issues and work in the interest of our countries' citizens again. Right now the mainstream parties refuse to do it, so people vote for parties like Vlaams Belang.
"Along the way some boys started making fun of him by shouting, “Go away, baldy! Get out of here!” Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. At once two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces 42 of the boys." - 2 Kings 23-24

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Re: Political compass test

Post by pjhair » 2 months ago

Admin wrote:
2 months ago
Those morons are making things worse and pushing people even more to the right. "I'm attacking you at the core of your being but please be nice and submit to me, to the educated left from the big cities, we know what's good for you!"
Left oriented media and SJW's will be well advised to heed this. By unfairly and relentlessly demonizing whites, they are deepening the divide between people and making things worse. They are playing a very dangerous game.
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