kj6723 wrote: ↑
1 year ago
My thing is, it's difficult for me to even make it to the point in the debate where we start discussing the impact if has on the woman. There's like a wall up inside me that I cannot get past the idea of killing off the conceived human life, and for me the discussion begins and ends with that.
I know the arguments, for the life of the mother, cases of rape, all these things. I just can never make it to that point in the discussion, like I said there is a wall inside me that I can't get past that first point. And then the arguments "this baby will be doomed to a poor quality of life if allowed to be born." I still believe that where there is life, there is possibility and hope, no matter how fucking cheesy it sounds. It's gotten to the point where people are now actually justifying abortion for cases down syndrome. Wtf. Ideologically this is not the direction the human race should be moving. Practicality at the loss of morality is a dangerous path to go down. And then the arguments "well we kill innocent people when we fight wars" and stuff like that. Yes we do, it does happen, both in covert manner, through drone strikes, that sort of thing, and even in conventional war there are innocent casualties. It shouldn't happen, and it certainly doesn't justify shit else.
I actually do think it should be illegal. Roe vs Wade to me is an extremely sad point in US history, and I would support its repeal. "But then women will get coat hanger abortions!" Again this brings us back to the point in the discussion that I can't even get to in the first place
I think the "life threatening risk" is normally where even most pro-lifers draw a line, including myself (though I have known a few people that don't feel this is acceptable, if there is a chance a healthy new born child can result from it, and even the slimmest of chances).
I've read a lot of stories about how women actually risked their life or gave up their life at the chance of their new born going on to live. What was the correlation between all of them? They had at least one child before, often a few. Has a woman with her first born ever taken such a risk? I highly doubt it. This is because unless it's in front of you, and you realise the reality and weight of the situation, it can be very easy and all too convenient to just get rid.
And I just want to take a step back and say I don't expect anyone to make that decision, or it makes them less human or caring, but to me it makes sense that the only women who would be brave/crazy enough to make such a choice would be those who have seen life grow before them. When it comes to possibly giving up your own life, you are no longer making a statement or anything, you are expressing the selflessness that comes from understanding you are passing on life. If anyone is ever lucky enough to witness a glimpse of this trait in your own parents, you understand it, and you at least understand how one day you would do the same for your own children (not that I could guarantee such a thing of course, but I at least understand it).
To me that's about as extreme as an abortion scenario can get to, and I can still take that away from it.
But after going through Repeal the 8th earlier this year here in Ireland, and having felt like an alien among everyone I know, it's good to read your words kj. It reminds me that I'm not alone in my thought process, especially as the only people that publicly expressed anti-abortion thought were religious extremists. I think this was actually completely intentional by the Irish press and RTE (main TV channel) in giving a "balance" - the pro-life side was always someone nuts who basically wanted to ban modern civilisation.
For me the realisation of this topic was never reached easily, and I was influenced as a young person by media and society. Now it seems blatantly obvious to me that abortion is completely wrong and deplorable, but I'll tell you the thing that made me arrive at this point, and started a snowball effect of a lot of other reasons it is unjust-
At what point does a life become life?
And in discussing Repeal the 8th many times this year, nobody could ever give me an answer to this, but the more you think about it the more it will haunt you. The "legislation" we were given was supposedly 12 weeks (though this wasn't in writing or anything, one of the many reasons this was one of the most fucked up referendums known to man, but I'll move on) and the common opinion was "well 12 weeks isn't too long, it's not conscious but it gives you enough time to decide".
And to marry this with another supposedly justified opinion "it's not like they want to go around murdering toddlers or anything".
But I mean, is a toddler conscious? Does a 1 year old understand death or the need to survive?
Troubling questions but really, to me this brings it all back. A 12 week old apparently has no right to life but if it makes it a week later then it's a person now. Nobody really troubles themselves with this, just "at some point between conception and birth it's ok to abort" well OK what point? Nobody will ever know. And if they really gave a lot of thought to this they'd arrive at the same conclusion as us, I guarantee that.
It's incredibly tedious and selfish of the modern human that the only reason we equate life with a toddler, and not a fetus, is because a newborn baby or toddler is something we physically cherish and adore. An unwanted fetus however is derived as a "clump of cells". Even if both are as essentially as "conscious" as each other.
It really does come down to being that superficial, and it's disgusting. I really don't care about these "moments of becoming human" when a fetus first blinks or clenches it's fist, those scrambling arguments to me just reduces the overall point.