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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by pjhair » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
You're reminding me of Ben Shapiro being proud of the quote "facts don't care about your feelings", it's a stupid quote. Without feelings, we're not human.
But Shapiros quote doesn't imply that feelings don't matter. He is merely saying that feelings don't change facts. For example, 2 + 2 suddenly doesn't become 5 just because someone feels it should. Situation can become problematic if people holding erroneous beliefs demand that everyone else should hold the same beliefs. Those who believe there are 30 genders also often demand that others also believe and operate as if that is really the case. They sometimes get quite hostile and bullish about it. Number of genders in humans is a scientific fact. It doesn't change because of feelings. Social consequences of believing that there are 30 genders by a small section of society is comparatively not that dreadful. However, there are beliefs that are far more pernicious and destructive driven entirely by utter disregards for facts by some people. Therefore giving primacy to feelings over facts is not a desirable thing to do in my opinion.

Some might object that I am using the word "feelings" and "beliefs" interchangeably, as if they are synonyms. I am aware it. However, in the above paragraph, I am strictly talking about beliefs that are primarily driven by feelings rather than facts.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Exodus » 1 week ago

JLBB wrote:
1 week ago
"Are you saying there are no white people robbing people at gunpoint or other methods that threaten life?

What about this guy:"

In case you didn't realise, this is what a strawman argument looks like. You're responding to something Exodus never said. Funny about Exodus I think he's on the lower end of IQ of posters here and likely had among the worst education, but he is in general better at reading, comprehending and responding to what someone actually wrote than the majority of the more leftwing posters here. I suspect its because of a natural instinct of many (the vast majority?) on the left to virtue signal about any given topic rather than understand or discuss it. Social narrative over truth. Ultimately that often requires ignoring the underlying arguments or trying to negate them to reach a more socially acceptable conclusion, resulting in a response to an unreality rather than harsh facts, or accepting that a dickhead like That Guy might actually be right a significant amount of the time. The easiest way to do this is simply lie about what they wrote.

In this case nameless your response had nothing to do with what he wrote, you're wasting your own and everyone else's time because of it.
Lower end of IQ of posters here? How low are we talking? What percentile? do you mean I'm in the bottom 50% ? average here is smart otherwise. people here are annoyingly intelligent, or at the very least well-spoken

Are you just saying this because I said your yellow fever was creepy?

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by JLBB » 1 week ago

pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
But Shapiros quote doesn't imply that feelings don't matter. He is merely saying that feelings don't change facts. For example, 2 + 2 suddenly doesn't become 5 just because someone feels it should. Situation can become problematic if people holding erroneous beliefs demand that everyone else should hold the same beliefs. Those who believe there are 30 genders also often demand that others also believe and operate as if that is really the case. They sometimes get quite hostile and bullish about it. Number of genders in humans is a scientific fact. It doesn't change because of feelings. Social consequences of believing that there are 30 genders by a small section of society is comparatively not that dreadful. However, there are beliefs that are far more pernicious and destructive driven entirely by utter disregards for facts by some people. Therefore giving primacy to feelings over facts is not a desirable thing to do in my opinion.

Some might object that I am using the word "feelings" and "beliefs" interchangeably, as if they are synonyms. I am aware it. However, in the above paragraph, I am strictly talking about beliefs that are primarily driven by feelings rather than facts.
Quintessential example of Afro avoiding the point, in particular because it’s in reference to a quote literally about truth.

Added in 12 minutes 15 seconds:
Exodus wrote:
1 week ago
Lower end of IQ of posters here? How low are we talking? What percentile? do you mean I'm in the bottom 50% ? average here is smart otherwise. people here are annoyingly intelligent, or at the very least well-spoken

Are you just saying this because I said your yellow fever was creepy?

Smarter than average, although like you say most people here are intelligent in general, at least in an IQ and education sense. But lower then That Guy and Afro who have dominated the argument in the last batch of pages. The only person here I consider bellow the threshold of “intelligent” is nameless.

I don’t mind if you think my yellow fever is creepy. I don’t even mean it in the sense that I think you’re unintelligent, but I think you’d agree Afro would beat you in an IQ test even if he often can’t respond to That Guy without strawmanning or actually trying to comprehend what he wrote, which was my point.

Same issue with Yettee, although he seems to be like a genuine condescending, virtue signaller and often disingenuous asshole, I think Afros problem is That Guy genuinely says many horrific things and because he isn’t desensitized to it like you, me or Pat for example tends to react emotionally. I don’t exactly blame him either, I mean That Guy among other things has literally said I should be hanged and supports for erroneous and often factually inaccurate reasons Hitler, who spearheaded a genocide of millions of people. He’s also joked about torture of gays, I mean he’s clearly a terrible person even if a large amount of his opinion on immigration is accurate, and proves itself even more so over time.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Exodus » 1 week ago

JLBB wrote:
1 week ago
Quintessential example of Afro avoiding the point, in particular because it’s in reference to a quote literally about truth.

Added in 12 minutes 15 seconds:



Smarter than average, although like you say most people here are intelligent in general, at least in an IQ and education sense. But lower then That Guy and Afro who have dominated the argument in the last batch of pages. The only person here I consider bellow the threshold of “intelligent” is nameless.

I don’t mind if you think my yellow fever is creepy. I don’t even mean it in the sense that I think you’re unintelligent, but I think you’d agree Afro would beat you in an IQ test even if he often can’t respond to That Guy without strawmanning or actually trying to comprehend what he wrote, which was my point.

Same issue with Yettee, although he seems to be like a genuine condescending, virtue signaller and often disingenuous asshole, I think Afros problem is That Guy genuinely says many horrific things and because he isn’t desensitized to it like you, me or Pat for example tends to react emotionally. I don’t exactly blame him either, I mean That Guy among other things has literally said I should be hanged and supports for erroneous and often factually inaccurate reasons Hitler, who spearheaded a genocide of millions of people. He’s also joked about torture of gays, I mean he’s clearly a terrible person even if a large amount of his opinion on immigration is accurate, and proves itself even more so over time.
Oh good. I was panicking. We've always been cool so I took what you said as an honest assessment.

If i'm not smart I have literally fucking nothing. Afro and That guy probably are smarter. I just care about being above average. Part of why I dont post here very often is that everyone's smart . I dont have much valuable input

Jesus fucking christ being ugly is so emotionally fucking exhausting. I keep considering suicide but that's fucking retarded as well. We're gonna die anyways. I met another short baldie but he's bluepilled and stupid so I have no one to vent to

Everyone here and on hairlosstalk is like fucking norwood 3 or under, successful, normie and at least average height. Fucking lol at these forums

Ive legit found more bald guys in random ass forums I go to than here. What the fuck is up with that

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by JLBB » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
I did in fact shift the nature of my responses to him a while back, but I'd ask you not to ignore why this happened, and not to make false assumptions, when I have stated why I had done so, and stated so correctly and in detail. Quite frankly, when I was rebutting his points in a dry and sanitary manner, he would simply ignore it. He had a tendency to post many "facts" that he had not verified, and he also used a lot of information that he had no understanding of, such as the genetic studies of populations. And further, he would always go back to the hate speech. He's chased multiple people off the forum. By the way, I'm surprised that you didn't tell him off for the way that he spoke to pas, or perhaps you did and I missed it.

Don't dismiss bad language as "naughty words and ideas". Language and words matter. They are precursors to bad actions. Further, language is fundamental to what it means to be human. It matters. You're reminding me of Ben Shapiro being proud of the quote "facts don't care about your feelings", it's a stupid quote. Without feelings, we're not human.

****

Now, referring to the German economy, one of my first hints that That Guy had lost his cool was when he wrote that the successes of the German economy in the 1930s were ignored by historians. They're not ignored by historians lol, it's widely discussed in mainstream sources. I recently finished "The World at War", which is considered the definitive English-language documentary on WWII, and they discuss the 1930s German economy in detail.

Nameless' comments are in fact a part of the truth. The German economy of the 1930s did in fact use some theft, and some slave labour. That's in the historical record, and part of the story. I'm a capitalist myself, so I consider slave labour to be fundamentally inefficient (never mind immoral), but I think that it likely can provide a macro-economic boost in the short term. I'm not sure how long it would usually take to be a net negative. But the Nazis almost immediately set up work camps at places like Dachau, and if I recall correctly, the communists were the first to go. They went from being a source of anxiety to the productive classes, to being a source of cheap labour.

It is not responsible to simply separate "before the war" with "the war", as the latter led to the former in an inevitable manner.

Slave labour also enabled them to punch above their weight during the war. People who made it to Auschwitz, etc were immediately partitioned upon arrival. Babies, women, the elderly, etc were to be gassed as soon as possible. Able-bodied men were to work until they could no longer work, then gassed. This provided a lot of labour and materials and should not be dismissed. They also had their property expropriated, which helped fund the war effort. There's a six-part BBC documentary on Netflix called "Auschwitz: The Nazis and 'The Final Solution'" where they interview several people, including a former SS guard, Oskar Groening. He discusses his role, which was to take away the prisoners' property and funnel it to the war effort.

There are of course other factors to the German growth of the 1930s, if you want to discuss that we can as it's an independently interesting subject. I list some of the factors here:
- Growth actually did resume before Hitler came to power in 1933. A modern analogue is how many Americans credit Bill Clinton for the 1990s boom, which actually began a few months before he became President.
- They took back some of the lands that they lost in the treaty of Versailles, such as the wealthy industrial regions from France.
- They did make some concessions to labour. Hitler didn't just abolish the unions, he also made some concessions such as adding holidays, that are good for worker morale, and thus productivity.
- They had a military buildup. A military-industrial complex is labour-intensive, I don't know if this is always true but it certainly has been true for most of the 20th century. You need a lot of workers with a lot of different skills to assemble things like tanks and airplanes and roads. The German re-armament began before that of the other Western European powers. In this sense, Hitler was kind of like Roosevelt and Stalin, who made sure that their workers kept busy, to the best extent that they can. Note, in contrast, the opposition to Roosevelt largely wanted to "liquidate the farmer, liquidate everything", they were assuming a vulgar form of laissez-faire capitalism, and if that had happened I think that the war might have gone another way. A military buildup can also lead to technological developments that can improve living standards, though that takes longer.
- They did actually make an effort to feed and train their population. That is in contrast to the British, who eventually realized that the men who formed the German infantry tended to be taller and heavier and in better shape than the men who formed the UK infantry.
- They brought conscription in 1935, whereas the UK waited until 1939, and the US waited until 1940. Conscription is a way to keep young men busy, as that is a population that should not be idle.
- There were some other things, for example the Nazis opposed smoking. Over the long-term that would have contributed some economic benefits, but I'm not sure how long that would take.

All of that is real, interesting, and can be discussed in an intelligent manner -- by mature people.
There’s likely something to be learned from nazi economics, but overall there’s nothing extraordinary enough about them to bother for those other than history buffs. Marginal increases in wages, drastic increases in working hours, limiting cheap imports and shortages of various goods, mandatory conscription, war, and GDP increases propped up by military spending are in no world some sort of miracle of economics. To suggest some great lesson here is laughable.

In my response to Nameless, it was definitely responsible to think specifically in terms of the economy before the war because that is what That Guy consistently heralds as some great marvel of economics, the specificity matters because that’s what was being discussed and if you ignore that you cease being able to communicate honestly, but whether before or after the war it was never some sort of great marvel like he pretends anyway. On top of that trying to compare an economic system in a very specific context from the 30s and 40s like That Guy does to the modern day in any sense is for the most part fucking ridiculous.
The US economy in 2019 is on thin ice but looks a hundred times better than that of Nazi Germany’s ever did. Modern Australia’s, Denmark’s etc etc and countless others offer more relevant information to economics in 2019.

I wasn’t paying much attention to the Pas situation when she came back as I had my mind on other things but was especially upset she left so quickly especially as I wanted to PM her. I didn’t see specifically anything That Guy said towards her at the time.

You’re also right that “naughty” was a terrible and reductive way of referring to a lot of what he says. They are often horrific and should be viewed seriously because of that but at the same time I think you often have a reductive way of refuting his arguments. He sounded like an embarrassing pseudo intellectual when talking about music for example but I don’t think you were accurately addressing what he was actually saying either. They certainly weren’t the dumbest thing you’d find on the internet and much of it was accurate, however as per usual he has a tendency to rewrite history in some regards.

Added in 8 minutes 11 seconds:
Exodus wrote:
1 week ago
Oh good. I was panicking. We've always been cool so I took what you said as an honest assessment.

If i'm not smart I have literally fucking nothing. Afro and That guy probably are smarter. I just care about being above average. Part of why I dont post here very often is that everyone's smart . I dont have much valuable input

Jesus fucking christ being ugly is so emotionally fucking exhausting. I keep considering suicide but that's fucking retarded as well. We're gonna die anyways. I met another short baldie but he's bluepilled and stupid so I have no one to vent to

Everyone here and on hairlosstalk is like fucking norwood 3 or under, successful, normie and at least average height. Fucking lol at these forums

Ive legit found more bald guys in random ass forums I go to than here. What the fuck is up with that
What does your donor area look like? The place Afro went for his transplant is only a few thousand, if you could ever save that up it would be worth it even if just to produce a basic recessed hair line and give some coverage. That clinic does over 3000 grafts in one sitting as well and they don’t charge by the graft.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by yettee » 1 week ago

JLBB wrote:
1 week ago
I don’t mind if you think my yellow fever is creepy. I don’t even mean it in the sense that I think you’re unintelligent, but I think you’d agree Afro would beat you in an IQ test even if he often can’t respond to That Guy without strawmanning or actually trying to comprehend what he wrote, which was my point.

Same issue with Yettee, although he seems to be like a genuine condescending, virtue signaller and often disingenuous asshole, I think Afros problem is That Guy genuinely says many horrific things and because he isn’t desensitized to it like you, me or Pat for example tends to react emotionally.
?

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

pjhair wrote:
1 week ago
But Shapiros quote doesn't imply that feelings don't matter. He is merely saying that feelings don't change facts. For example, 2 + 2 suddenly doesn't become 5 just because someone feels it should. Situation can become problematic if people holding erroneous beliefs demand that everyone else should hold the same beliefs. Those who believe there are 30 genders also often demand that others also believe and operate as if that is really the case. They sometimes get quite hostile and bullish about it. Number of genders in humans is a scientific fact. It doesn't change because of feelings. Social consequences of believing that there are 30 genders by a small section of society is comparatively not that dreadful. However, there are beliefs that are far more pernicious and destructive driven entirely by utter disregards for facts by some people. Therefore giving primacy to feelings over facts is not a desirable thing to do in my opinion.

Some might object that I am using the word "feelings" and "beliefs" interchangeably, as if they are synonyms. I am aware it. However, in the above paragraph, I am strictly talking about beliefs that are primarily driven by feelings rather than facts.
I don't actually know how many genders there are, but I'll take the point in general. There are many things for which there is a clear cut answer, such as the number of days in a year (365.25), or the increased probability of lung cancer if one smokes.

Shapiro, however, discusses social and political issues at a very broad level, and so he does in fact touch on many issues where feelings inevitably manner. As an example, he is pro life, which is possibly his most famous position. There's no way to arrive at a purely dispassionate conclusion to the abortion issue, it necessarily has to draw on a person's values. The same is true of the vast majority of policy issues. Feelings are fundamental.

I suspect that what he's doing is downplaying the feelings of others, without realizing the role of his own.

Full disclosure, I'm not a great fan of Shapiro. He's not one of the conservative writers who makes me step back and think, like JD Vance, Conrad Black, Victor David Hanson, Rod Dreher, etc. He comes off as very partisan, his dismissals of the alt right were self righteous, among other issues.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Rudiger » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
By the way, I'm surprised that you didn't tell him off for the way that he spoke to pas, or perhaps you did and I missed it.
Ah a glimpse in to the thought process
internet_white_knight_colored_4350.jpg
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~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Arjen » 1 week ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 week ago
Ah a glimpse in to the thought process

internet_white_knight_colored_4350.jpg
In fact, I was wondering why YOU didn‘t stand up for her. Don‘t you sometimes feel guilty she left?

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by blackg » 1 week ago

We should all feel guilty.
Don't kneel because you feel

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Rudiger » 1 week ago

Arjen wrote:
1 week ago
In fact, I was wondering why YOU didn‘t stand up for her. Don‘t you sometimes feel guilty she left?
I wouldn't say guilty as I don't care about anyones feeling's, but I do feel bad that I missed the opportunity to score some points with vagina.

But now you mention it I was in fact wondering the same thing about YOU, why didn't YOU give him a good telling off to?!

Because that's the kind of fucked up thought process that happens in my head when I see female being spoken to in an offensive manner, "why isn't x here to save her?!"
~get 1k likes and party~ 8-)

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Arjen » 1 week ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 week ago
I wouldn't say guilty as I don't care about anyones feeling's, but I do feel bad that I missed the opportunity to score some points with vagina.

But now you mention it I was in fact wondering the same thing about YOU, why didn't YOU give him a good telling off to?!

Because that's the kind of fucked up thought process that happens in my head when I see female being spoken to in an offensive manner, "why isn't x here to save her?!"
I had wanted to, and I would have, but then I at some point realized that pas is a smoker. Since I don’t like smoking, I let it go. Also, I feared my defense would have got me less points than one from a 7.2804 like you anyway.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

Rudiger wrote:
1 week ago
I don't care about anyones feeling's,
By now that's long been clear. You have sociopathic tendencies which you also tend to project onto others.

As for "scoring with internet vagina" (what does that even mean? Lol), I've defended both male and female posters here and elsewhere. It's not something that you can understand, so you'll probably assume that I'm bisexual, or God knows what.

I will not be replying to you further.

"The only reason that X would stand up for Y is to have sex with Y" -- that is so fucked up on so many levels.

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by blackg » 1 week ago

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
1 week ago
By now that's long been clear. You have sociopathic tendencies which you also tend to project onto others.

As for "scoring with internet vagina" (what does that even mean? Lol), I've defended both male and female posters here and elsewhere. It's not something that you can understand, so you'll probably assume that I'm bisexual, or God knows what.

I will not be replying to you further.

"The only reason that X would stand up for Y is to have sex with Y" -- that is so fucked up on so many levels.
I think Rudi was slightly trolling a bit, mate, about scoring vagina.
Don't kneel because you feel

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Re: IoHL Community Coffee Shop

Post by Afro_Vacancy » 1 week ago

blackg wrote:
1 week ago
I think Rudi was slightly trolling a bit, mate, about scoring vagina.
Nobody would ever mistake you for a bad person.

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