Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:15 pm

The United States was founded off protest (Tea party, independence war, etc), protest is what happens in healthy societies when the authorities go on for a long time ignoring the will of the people.

That includes both left-wing and right-wing protests. There were significant right-wing protests during Obama's presidency (as predicted by conservative historian Philip Jenkins right after Obama's election).The modern tea party happened, which contributed to the GOP moving to the right. A lot of previously "moderate" republicans were primaried, such as Eric Cantor.

Other western countries have significant protest traditions as well though. For example, Czechoslovakia had some of the most impressive resistance against the Nazis -- they killed Reinhard Heydrich. He was the most powerful Nazi murdered by resistance groups in the second world war. The "Prague Spring", a later protest, was so powerful that it actually became a standard saying in a different language (English).

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:29 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:08 pm
Image
King's protests were peaceful, but they took place in the 1960s, against a backdrop of increasingly violent protests which were radicalizing large swaths of the population. Without that backdrop, the authorities would likely have kept doing what they had done for the previous 100 years: ignore Black people, and come up with increasingly convoluted ways to keep denying them rights: Jim Crow, poll taxes, etc.

In general, peaceful protests are more successful when there are competing protests which are more radical. In those contexts, the authorities make a choice at some point and end up making concessions. They elevate the peaceful protesters to undermine the more radical movements. In contrast, the track record of peaceful protests which are not backed by any kind of power is limited.

Lyndon Johnson, who was the president of the United States and was responsible for signing many of the laws that King pushed for (Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act), is known by the historical record to have been fighting a war at home on multiple fronts. He had not been an aggressive supporter of Black civil rights when he was in the United States Senate from 1949 to 1960. However, once he was president he had to deal with resistance at on each of the issues of Vietnam, women's rights, and Black civil rights. His priority was reducing domestic resistance to the Vietnam war, and thus he made concessions in the other areas. That is well documented by historians.

Johnson felt betrayed in 1967, when King started speaking out against Vietnam.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Admin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:15 pm
The United States was founded off protest (Tea party, independence war, etc), protest is what happens in healthy societies when the authorities go on for a long time ignoring the will of the people.

That includes both left-wing and right-wing protests. There were significant right-wing protests during Obama's presidency (as predicted by conservative historian Philip Jenkins right after Obama's election).The modern tea party happened, which contributed to the GOP moving to the right. A lot of previously "moderate" republicans were primaried, such as Eric Cantor.

Other western countries have significant protest traditions as well though. For example, Czechoslovakia had some of the most impressive resistance against the Nazis -- they killed Reinhard Heydrich. He was the most powerful Nazi murdered by resistance groups in the second world war. The "Prague Spring", a later protest, was so powerful that it actually became a standard saying in a different language (English).
I don't see the hysteria around Kavanaugh's confirmation as the will of the people, rather the will of an authoritarian minority who wants subjugate the majority, which is one of the reasons it didn't work.

The media, academia and smug intellectuals (or often just random celebrities living in a parallel world) keep claiming that what they think (multiculturalism is good, we should open our borders, Islam is peace, nationalism is bad, etc.) is the will of the people.

Sorry guys, it's the other way around, and it couldn't be more obvious at this point. When it's time to vote, we see what the true majority wants, we see what real democracy looks like: Trump, Austria, Italy, Sweden, Belgium (yeah we have a right-wing government), Brexit, Kavanaugh's confirmation, etc.

You don't agree with that? Protest (peacefully) if you want, give us some arguments, debate, engage people on the field of ideas. Don't start rolling on the floor like a 2 year old screeching that everyone's a nazi and that you want to wake up from this nightmare.

Just like my future kid won't win pulling that sort of crap, the left won't win hearts with those tactics. And it's a shame because I remain a leftie at heart, but I also want to protect freedom, due process, borders, Western values and European identity. I'm afraid those are not negotiable and never will be.
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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Admin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:29 pm
King's protests were peaceful, but they took place in the 1960s, against a backdrop of increasingly violent protests which were radicalizing large swaths of the population. Without that backdrop, the authorities would likely have kept doing what they had done for the previous 100 years: ignore Black people, and come up with increasingly convoluted ways to keep denying them rights: Jim Crow, poll taxes, etc.

In general, peaceful protests are more successful when there are competing protests which are more radical. In those contexts, the authorities make a choice at some point and end up making concessions. They elevate the peaceful protesters to undermine the more radical movements. In contrast, the track record of peaceful protests which are not backed by any kind of power is limited.

Lyndon Johnson, who was the president of the United States and was responsible for signing many of the laws that King pushed for (Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act), is known by the historical record to have been fighting a war at home on multiple fronts. He had not been an aggressive supporter of Black civil rights when he was in the United States Senate from 1949 to 1960. However, once he was president he had to deal with resistance at on each of the issues of Vietnam, women's rights, and Black civil rights. His priority was reducing domestic resistance to the Vietnam war, and thus he made concessions in the other areas. That is well documented by historians.

Johnson felt betrayed in 1967, when King started speaking out against Vietnam.
That's a resounding for me no for me here, Afro. Violence is almost never acceptable and I'd say that it undermined Martin Luther King's peaceful protest and message if anything.

See, this is where the left goes too far. You speak French, right? When I was a kid, I loved to listen to a YouTuber (before he was one) called Usul for his funny commentary on video games. One day he started telling everyone he was a Marxist and started making political videos.

And then I completely lost respect for the guy, he became possessed and actually already had injected some Marxism in his videos, which I found weird as a teenager but couldn't explain why exactly.

Here he is advocating beating up cops in the defense of "true" democracy, so that things are finally going to start changing!:



So again, no Afro, that won't fly, and violence is almost (yeah no absolutes) never acceptable, but for the above, it sounds way too much like you're willing to make it acceptable because "bruh, it will benefit the greater good in the long-term".

No, it won't, it will do exactly the opposite, it did exactly the opposite and I don't think many people look back with admiration on the violent riots.
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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:40 pm
That's a resounding for me no for me here, Afro. Violence is almost never acceptable and I'd say that it undermined Martin Luther King's peaceful protest and message if anything.

See, this is where the left goes too far. You speak French, right? When I was a kid, I loved to listen to a YouTuber (before he was one) called Usul for his funny commentary on video games. One day he started telling everyone he was a Marxist and started making political videos.

And then I completely lost respect for the guy, he became possessed and actually already had injected some Marxism in his videos, which I found weird as a teenager but couldn't explain why exactly.

Here he is advocating beating up cops in the defense of "true" democracy, so that things are finally going to start changing!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2jiZJhrjHk

So gain, no Afro, that won't fly, and violence is almost (yeah no absolutes) never acceptable, but for the above, it sounds way too much like you're willing to make it acceptable because "bruh, it will benefit the greater good in the long-term".

No, it won't, it will do exactly the opposite, it did exactly the opposite and I don't think many people look back with admiration on the violent riots.
A few weeks ago, you were mentioning that your grandfather helped blow up coffee shops during the Nazi occupations, and I think that you approved of him. So there are times that you support violent resistance. You have a line in the sand, regardless of the fact that it has not been delineated in the past few pages.

Separately, I did not actually endorse violent resistance. What I wrote was descriptive rather than prescriptive. I was describing things as they are, not as I want them to be. What I wrote is that peaceful protests are more effective and more likely to succeed when there is a background of more violent protests and more radical movements. I would certainly rather live in a world where peaceful protest is in and of itself sufficient (that's what I want), but I do not live in that world.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Admin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:03 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:46 pm
A few weeks ago, you were mentioning that your grandfather helped blow up coffee shops during the Nazi occupations, and I think that you approved of him. So there are times that you support violent resistance. You have a line in the sand, regardless of the fact that it has not been delineated in the past few pages.

Separately, I did not actually endorse violent resistance. What I wrote was descriptive rather than prescriptive. I was describing things as they are, not as I want them to be. What I wrote is that peaceful protests are more effective and more likely to succeed when there is a background of more violent protests and more radical movements. I would certainly rather live in a world where peaceful protest is in and of itself sufficient (that's what I want), but I do not live in that world.
That's why I said almost never :). It was wartime and we were fighting for survival to avoid our complete annihilation by a group who was willing to give it his all to either enslave us or burn us and everything we fought for to the ground. That's the exception.

Here's how I see it, maybe you don't want what's most effective? Maybe you want to do what's right, even if it will be slower, even if there could be more casualties (or rather sacrifices), because once it's done right so to speak, it has way more chances of lasting?

I'm going to bring it back to a personal level on an "issue" in my relationship that seems trivial but mattered a lot to me. I think I mentioned it before, something I really wanted my girlfriend to do was to watch the original Star Wars trilogy. First, she was like "NO! I will never ever watch it, it's stupid, it's for nerds and you're a nerd!" More or less. Now what's the first (bad) strategy to get her to do what I want? Emotional blackmail, a variant of the temper tantrum that the leftists seem to love so much these days. "Well if you don't agree to do that, you hate me, and I'll make you pay for it! If you loved me, you'd watch them with me!" accompanied by emotional withdrawal, hate speech and the silent treatment.

Make no mistake, my girlfriend may be stubborn, but she would have caved, and I would have "won". But the thing is, you don't ever want to win that way, because when you force an outcome, when you try to unfairly bend reality to your will, what you obtain will be tainted.

So that's not what I did, I waited, and one day, as it could easily be predicted (since I also have things I want), she was the one who wanted something really bad. I didn't even have to suggest it, she said it herself: "OK, you'll do that for me, and I'll watch those stupid movies with you!". It took me more than two years, but a few weeks ago, she comfortably watched the original Star Wars trilogy with me and actually liked it. I got what I wanted, and she got what she wanted too.

This could seem trivial but nah, not for me :p. That's what we should aim for at every level, negotiation, no matter how hard it is, no matter how long it takes, no matter how impossible it seems. Because it always seems hopeless and impossible anyway. Exclusively peaceful protests can be sufficient and efficient, and I really don't think that the civil right movements would have eventually failed without a background of more violent protests. I would probably have taken longer, it would have been more difficult, but they would have won anyway. Now all those violent acts do is darken the heroic victories of the civil right movement.
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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Hairblues » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:51 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:08 pm
Not all forms of protest are equal. For everything, there is a hierarchy. The best form in human history by far would be the following:

Image

And the worst well, the ones where people get hurt or killed by the protesting mob. The above in Breitbart's article is just above that in my opinion.

Again, I probably know more about US history than European history, that's just how it is, as you say, I love that country and culture, I'm just fascinated by it. But I look at it through my own lens, which remains individualistic rather than collectivist.

I always find it useful to look bring down behaviors and ideas that sound good (usually ideologies) to the level of the individual. To do this here, let's say that you have a boyfriend, he's good-looking, he's interesting, he's high-status, whatever, you love him. One day you catch him on TV exhibiting the behavior of the people shown in the Breitbart article: he screams, screeches at the camera, calls people subhumans, cries, scratches the doors of the Supreme Court. What do you think of the guy now? Personally, I'd run away as far as possible from a girl behaving like that.

Forget about whether they're conservative, liberal, brown, white, female, etc. This kind of behavior looks pathetic even for a 2 year old. That aside, I surely don't see many conservatives acting that way when democracy doesn't go their way. Sure I've seen the religious nutjobs scream "God hates you" at gay pride parades, but it's very rare to see them throw a raging tantrum like that.

You see one of your relatives engage in that to get your to do what they want, you'll just ignore them while feeling sorry for them if you have any sense. And I believe this is what we should do on a collective level here. And thank God it seems that we have.

Image
everything that’s progressed in this country has come from people kicking and screaming for it and making people uncomfortable. Especially those who don’t want to see progressive changes like equal rights like unionization like women being allowed to get abortions like gay marriage.
No one has been handed the positive changes they have wanted without ugly protesting.

This country was FOUNDED on taking what we wanted.
I say that unapologetically.
This may shock you but as much as I feel Native Anerican lands should be protected today from any further and unnecessary ‘taking’ (we’ve took more than enough)
I don’t feel this sense of shame about our ancestors taking and conquering this country (well mine were in Italy but you get point).
I just think we should honor our treatries.
I think the slave trade was something we should feel shame over. I think throughout history any culture should feel shame in slavary (and we still have slavary in the world and it’s barbaric).

But we are fighters in USA and it’s NEVER been pretty.
You can selectively pick and choose MLK. But that’s like picking Ghandi. Both are superior human beings who come about maybe 1x in a few lifetimes.

From unionization to civil rights to women’s rights it’s all started in ugly fights

I will do flip side.
The anti abortion movement started in brutal ugliness. They bombed abortion clinics killed surgeons.
They’ve harassed and screamed at women (often teenagers) walking into clinics.
It was violent especially in late 80s
So what came of that ugliness?
They organized and they voted and kept voting and kept pressure up.
Now here they are finally in 2018 as close as they can possibly get to over turning this law. It may not be over turned but it will be death by a 1000 cuts.
But make no mistake.
That started with violence screaming and even murder.

It’s part of our culture.
And I would say it stems from our Euro ancestry.
I wouldn’t have wanted to be in Italy in the 70s that’s for shit sure.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Hairblues » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:02 pm

Also

The civil rights protests that were peaceful often broke the laws. So many didn’t consider a black person sitting at a lunch counter to be ‘peaceful’ they considered it an infringing on the owners establishment.

It’s easy to pick and choose a few peaceful pics to prove a point you selectively want to make but your not fleshing our the whole narrative that led to the eventual passing of the law.

It was MANY who contributed to the movement not just MLK. Your like painting this cum by ya picture of a very long and bloody battle.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by yettee » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:31 pm

Hairblues wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:02 pm
Also

The civil rights protests that were peaceful often broke the laws. So many didn’t consider a black person sitting at a lunch counter to be ‘peaceful’ they considered it an infringing on the owners establishment.

It’s easy to pick and choose a few peaceful pics to prove a point you selectively want to make but your not fleshing our the whole narrative that led to the eventual passing of the law.

It was MANY who contributed to the movement not just MLK. Your like painting this cum by ya picture of a very long and bloody battle.
It also applies to Jane Fonda, talked about I think in another thread. Without people like her stirring up the pot and getting people all inflamed we'd probably still be fighting in Nam.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:40 pm

Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:03 pm
That's why I said almost never :). It was wartime and we were fighting for survival to avoid our complete annihilation by a group who was willing to give it his all to either enslave us or burn us and everything we fought for to the ground. That's the exception.
I doubt that you actually draw the line at complete annihilation. I think that you would have approved of your grandfather's actions even if Nazi oppression of Belgium had been substantially lower. I'm not sure how much lower, but I really doubt that you draw the line at complete annihilation.
Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:03 pm
Here's how I see it, maybe you don't want what's most effective? Maybe you want to do what's right, even if it will be slower, even if there could be more casualties (or rather sacrifices), because once it's done right so to speak, it has way more chances of lasting?
Without power and strength, the effectiveness of peaceful protests will often be zero. Moreover, it is the case that telling people to wait can be an injustice, as human lives do not last forever. A lot of good people might be dying and suffering in the meantime.
Admin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:03 pm
I'm going to bring it back to a personal level on an "issue" in my relationship that seems trivial but mattered a lot to me. I think I mentioned it before, something I really wanted my girlfriend to do was to watch the original Star Wars trilogy. First, she was like "NO! I will never ever watch it, it's stupid, it's for nerds and you're a nerd!" More or less. Now what's the first (bad) strategy to get her to do what I want? Emotional blackmail, a variant of the temper tantrum that the leftists seem to love so much these days. "Well if you don't agree to do that, you hate me, and I'll make you pay for it! If you loved me, you'd watch them with me!" accompanied by emotional withdrawal, hate speech and the silent treatment.

Make no mistake, my girlfriend may be stubborn, but she would have caved, and I would have "won". But the thing is, you don't ever want to win that way, because when you force an outcome, when you try to unfairly bend reality to your will, what you obtain will be tainted.

So that's not what I did, I waited, and one day, as it could easily be predicted (since I also have things I want), she was the one who wanted something really bad. I didn't even have to suggest it, she said it herself: "OK, you'll do that for me, and I'll watch those stupid movies with you!". It took me more than two years, but a few weeks ago, she comfortably watched the original Star Wars trilogy with me and actually liked it. I got what I wanted, and she got what she wanted too.

This could seem trivial but nah, not for me :p. That's what we should aim for at every level, negotiation, no matter how hard it is, no matter how long it takes, no matter how impossible it seems. Because it always seems hopeless and impossible anyway. Exclusively peaceful protests can be sufficient and efficient, and I really don't think that the civil right movements would have eventually failed without a background of more violent protests. I would probably have taken longer, it would have been more difficult, but they would have won anyway. Now all those violent acts do is darken the heroic victories of the civil right movement.
I think that you handled things well in your relationship, but I don't agree that it's a good analogy for large social relations.

Within the context of a (healthy) one-to-one relationship you both have a lot of power, since you love each other and care for one another. You have stated this in other contexts, you have said that relationships cannot be healthy if one party has full power over the other. On the other hand, within one society, we do not all have equal power. Some have more money, more influence, and moreover, votes are not evenly distributed in the USA. The electoral college means that one vote in one location might be worth two votes in another. Separately, gerrymandering is very much anti-democratic.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:53 pm

Hairblues wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:51 pm
I will do flip side.
The anti abortion movement started in brutal ugliness. They bombed abortion clinics killed surgeons.
They’ve harassed and screamed at women (often teenagers) walking into clinics.
It was violent especially in late 80s
So what came of that ugliness?
They organized and they voted and kept voting and kept pressure up.
Now here they are finally in 2018 as close as they can possibly get to over turning this law. It may not be over turned but it will be death by a 1000 cuts.
But make no mistake.
That started with violence screaming and even murder.
I'm curious to see how they handle that.

If all they care about is the sanctity of human life, due to the belief that metaphysical souls enter the corpse at conception, then they will ban abortion in all cases with the exception of the health of the mother being at stake, and possibly the health of the other fetuses if it's a multiple pregnancy. That would be consistent with conservative arguments over the past thirty years.

But that would be politically suicide. They're not going to take abortion access away from wealthy white women. Those with means will merely cross state lines or drive slightly longer distances, but they'll still have access. Having those people enraged would sink the GOP.

I agree that death by a 1,000 cuts is the more likely outcome. It gives them plausible deniability. Moreover, it helps keep this wedge issue alive, it's a great issue to help motivate conservative voters. Imagine if for every election cycle for the next ten cycle they make it a referendum on some very specific, rare, obscure abortion technique. They can motivate voters on that issue while continuing business as usual on everything else. It's like what parts of the left tried to do with transgender bathrooms.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Admin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:21 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:53 pm
I'm curious to see how they handle that.

If all they care about is the sanctity of human life, due to the belief that metaphysical souls enter the corpse at conception, then they will ban abortion in all cases with the exception of the health of the mother being at stake, and possibly the health of the other fetuses if it's a multiple pregnancy. That would be consistent with conservative arguments over the past thirty years.

But that would be politically suicide. They're not going to take abortion access away from wealthy white women. Those with means will merely cross state lines or drive slightly longer distances, but they'll still have access. Having those people enraged would sink the GOP.

I agree that death by a 1,000 cuts is the more likely outcome. It gives them plausible deniability. Moreover, it helps keep this wedge issue alive, it's a great issue to help motivate conservative voters. Imagine if for every election cycle for the next ten cycle they make it a referendum on some very specific, rare, obscure abortion technique. They can motivate voters on that issue while continuing business as usual on everything else. It's like what parts of the left tried to do with transgender bathrooms.
This is a complicated matter. Personally, I believe life is sacred and that abortion is wrong, deeply wrong, and of course as always, there should be room for exceptions (rape, life of the mother being at stake, if horrible diseases are detected in the womb, etc.).

But still, I don't think it should be illegal, because we know what the alternative (back alley abortions) looks like. So I'd say let people make their own mistakes. What we know for sure is that there would be very few people who would cheer at the idea of a woman aborting (but they're out there though of course, the left sometimes goes too far too).

Discussions about where we draw the line can and should still be had, but I don't think we should ever go back to outlawing abortion. Freedom of choice is best in this case too, too bad the authoritarians on the religious right don't see it that way and would like to control others "for their own good" as they would say.

What I said earlier in this thread still applies, if you try to control others, reality like that then what you obtain is tainted, even if you're doing it with good intentions. Especially if you're doing it with good intention maybe. For some reason I still vividly remember Dench's opinion about this issue on HairlossTalk when he was debating with me (when I was still an anti-abortion nazi):

"CHOICE MOTHERFUCKER!"
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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Rudiger » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:53 pm

So nobody saw this coming-

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/03/65401587 ... evaporates

Fill hysterical people with hysterical thoughts based on nothing but pure hysteria, they'll feel a bit deflated by the system and their own ignorant thought process.

I also think this will rally Republicans who are closer to the center or possibly libertarian etc. Now they can see the opposition has simply no moral compass, to add to the list, they don't even care about justice, all that matters is the end result. Principals and processes don't matter, as long as you're on the wrong team, you're now guilty until proven innocent.

But that's just in a court of law and not a "job interview"? I hate how that argument is used in a sense of "yeah we get to punish and villify a man because the normal legal processes which are in place for a reason, those can't stop us!!!".

After the Cohen scandal was turned up to 11 (but ultimately became just another hysterical scandal as nothing illegal had actually taken place) I really thought things had swung against the Republicans in terms of voter apathy and possibly a large swing of potential GOP voters instead voting for alternatives in November (but still Trump for 2020). I just felt like, although the Dems were being ridiculous in thinking this was ever going to result in Impeachment, there was still nothing positive for even the most ardent Trump supporter to take away from it, and I thought it could have potentially made a lot of moderate Republicans apathetic. That said, the Democratic party is just such a broke fucking mess, I couldn't tell if it would really matter if there was 5-10% less Republican turnout.

But now choosing between the support of either party, I can more imagine previous Dem votes going to Independent or the Greens, instead of Republicans swaying. I can actually more imagine the Democratic party breaking down in to different unofficial branches which could make for a confusing mess of in-fighting, such as the Democratic Socialists of America which seems to be gaining support yet also totally condemned from major Democratic figures like Warren.

Is there time for another "scandal" before the polls? Oh I'm sure there is, or at least one of the regular mini scandals, and either it will be inconsequential, or like the Kavanaugh one, highly deflating and damaging to their own support.
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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Afro_Vacancy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:01 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:53 pm
So nobody saw this coming-

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/03/65401587 ... evaporates
A lot of people saw this coming. There are at least two people on this forum who saw this coming, myself and @JeanLucBB. It was also speculated in the mainstream media that this nomination fight was a show of strength, independent of the other factors. National Review had an article on the day of the testimonies stating that this would unite conservatives.

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Re: Kavanaugh sexual assault claims

Post by Rudiger » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:07 pm

Afro_Vacancy wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:01 pm
A lot of people saw this coming. There are at least two people on this forum who saw this coming, myself and @JeanLucBB. It was also speculated in the mainstream media that this nomination fight was a show of strength, independent of the other factors. National Review had an article on the day of the testimonies stating that this would unite conservatives.
That was some sarcasm there. It was always going to damage their own cause but they'll still mindlessly pursue it out of virtue. Uniting Conservatives is one thing but the real damage it's doing is to the Democratic party itself.
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