Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

Discuss how hair loss has affected you, someone you know, or a public figure.
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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25074

Post by Lurker » 3 weeks ago

I am a long time lurker on here and on hairlosstalk especially in the impact section. I found this forum a couple weeks ago. I got a question for admin (i assume he is old Fred. Is this true?)

So i am a KHHV (kissless, hugless, handholdless virgin) at 29yo. I tried it all. Losing weight (-80 kg), frauding my hair line to NW1 with Toppik and clever styling (even my dermatologist said "What are you talking about you are NW 1", and going to the gym. I am 189 cm, that's 6'2" for my imperial friends and i got a good body on which i get regularly complemented on (only by other men of course).

The reason im a virgin has nothing to do with my hair loss, I know how devastating it is for a young man to find himself balding. I was also depressed for a long time because of it. In reality there are only two things which determine if you'll live a fulfilling life or if you'll suffer for a lifetime:

1. Your face
2. and being neurotypical and communicative

I failed at both, horribly.

1. My face is so bad that i get even asked if my face is the reason that im not uploading a profile pic on Whats App. I shit you not, this happened in the past, even by women. Tinder and asking out women in real life devastated what little confidence i had left (confidence is another bullshit term for being good looking)

2. I got a really severe stutter. 14 years of therapy made me able to at least express myself somewhat succesful. But it's still bad in real life and even worse with women and other new people i get to know

My height did nothing for me, my excellently frauded NW1 did nothing for me. Being muscular did nothing for me. It's all about face and being "normal".

Bettering yourself and being your best version is an endless cycle of self-torturing, while others never even lift a finger for anything and still drown in female attention.

So admin i want to ask you something. In the past you always wrote that going to the gym is useless, but as of 2019 you are advocating for it. Why is this? Do you think of it as an amplifier while having a decent face? Or do you really think being muscular and "fit" will get anyone laid in 2020?

Other than that i really enjoy the old threads on hairlosstalk with good discussions, before you all got banned. Keep it up!

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25075

Post by blackg » 3 weeks ago

You're a good writer.
Straight outta Del Boca Vista!

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25076

Post by Lurker » 3 weeks ago

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, to be honest^^
I'm from Germany and i always thought of my English as being meh. In Germany we have a term for this: "Schulenglisch". Just plain English without depth or any nuances.

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25077

Post by blackg » 3 weeks ago

Lurker wrote: 3 weeks ago I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, to be honest^^
I'm from Germany and i always thought of my English as being meh. In Germany we have a term for this: "Schulenglisch". Just plain English without depth or any nuances.
No not being sarcastic, I like your style. There's some wit in your writing.
Straight outta Del Boca Vista!

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25078

Post by Admin » 3 weeks ago

Yes this is "old Fred" :p.

Well, at the end of 2016, I caught quite a bad case of mononucleosis. It made me feel so weak physically that it somehow triggered this desire to get stronger physically. I felt up for a new challenge, and way before the physical benefits started appearing, I realized how much of a positive impact weightlifting was having on my mental health. Before I started working, I thought it was just normal that I would get those huge drops in mood at times. After a few months of working out, those episodes completely disappeared. So from then on, it wasn't only about putting on muscle anymore.

Yes, I think it acts as an amplifier if you have a decent face. I've left the dating scene more than 4 years ago and I'm married now, so I can't say much about what it's doing for me when it comes to how other women view me. All I know is that my wife likes to feel my muscles and regularly compliments me on them, even though I don't find them very impressive myself. Other than that, it also shows that you're disciplined and that you're taking care of your body. Much later after my conversion to gymcelling, I also converted to Christianity, which encourages you to make sure you make your body a proper host for the Holy Spirit.

I agree that getting muscular and fit will not get you laid, but it might just give the extra push you need to meet and secure the love of your life (no cringing please :D). I really think we need to move away from the serial dating culture of our times, from this idea that life (as a man or as a woman) is about getting having as much sex as possible while pretending you're too cool for commitment. I've been on that hedonistic rollercoaster and it was harmful both for myself and the women I was "casually" sleeping with, not to mention the many bullets I've dodged while playing that dangerous game.

If you expect a fit body to help you become the kind of serial womanizer that our modern society idealizes, you're deluding yourself. But as part of a strategy to meet a long-term to life-long partner in a more traditional scenario, I think weightlifting is worth incorporating in your strategy, especially when you take into account the many benefits it provides well beyond physical attraction.
:christian-cross:

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#25079

Post by blackg » 3 weeks ago

Admin wrote: 3 weeks ago I really think we need to move away from the serial dating culture of our times, from this idea that life (as a man or as a woman) is about getting having as much sex as possible while pretending you're too cool for commitment. I've been on that hedonistic rollercoaster and it was harmful both for myself and the women I was "casually" sleeping with
I don't get this. All these experiences are just learning curves essential to character development.
I think it's a bit rich to constantly call the casual-sex rollercoaster "harmful."

Besides, the term rollercoaster implies equal amounts high as there are lows.
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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25080

Post by Pat » 3 weeks ago

Lurker wrote: 3 weeks ago Bettering yourself and being your best version is an endless cycle of self-torturing, while others never even lift a finger for anything and still drown in female attention.
The masturbatory self improvement is just that. Daydreaming about how your life will be once you got a six pack, or once you got your degree, or once you get a hair transplant, or what ever fixable thing you blame your lack of success on. You think that happiness is something that you achieve after you've ticked the boxes in your mind. Then you painstakingly chase this imaginary finish line you've set out in your mind. Dedicating your life to improving it.

Once you've finally reached your imaginary finish line there's nothing there. It's all the same. Except now you're old as well.

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25081

Post by Admin » 3 weeks ago

blackg wrote: 3 weeks ago I don't get this. All these experiences are just learning curves essential to character development.
I felt like I was learning the same basic and painful lesson over and over again, that human beings were not meant to use one another for personal gratification. If you really want your character to be tested and developed, nothing beats a committed long-term relationship in my opinion.
blackg wrote: 3 weeks ago I think it's a bit rich to constantly call the casual-sex rollercoaster "harmful."

Besides, the term rollercoaster implies equal amounts high as there are lows.
I never implied that the highs were a good thing :x.

:angel:
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#25085

Post by blackg » 3 weeks ago

Pat wrote: 3 weeks ago The masturbatory self improvement is just that. Daydreaming about how your life will be once you got a six pack, or once you got your degree, or once you get a hair transplant, or what ever fixable thing you blame your lack of success on. You think that happiness is something that you achieve after you've ticked the boxes in your mind. Then you painstakingly chase this imaginary finish line you've set out in your mind. Dedicating your life to improving it.

Once you've finally reached your imaginary finish line there's nothing there. It's all the same. Except now you're old as well.
Older! Not flat-out old.
But the rest of your post I agree with. There are a lot of angry men walking around out there coming to terms with the fact that there really is no gold at the end of the rainbow.
Straight outta Del Boca Vista!

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25087

Post by Lurker » 3 weeks ago

blackg wrote: 3 weeks ago No not being sarcastic, I like your style. There's some wit in your writing.
Thank you! This means a lot to me.
Pat wrote: 3 weeks ago The masturbatory self improvement is just that. Daydreaming about how your life will be once you got a six pack, or once you got your degree, or once you get a hair transplant, or what ever fixable thing you blame your lack of success on. You think that happiness is something that you achieve after you've ticked the boxes in your mind. Then you painstakingly chase this imaginary finish line you've set out in your mind. Dedicating your life to improving it.

Once you've finally reached your imaginary finish line there's nothing there. It's all the same. Except now you're old as well.
Perfect, just perfect. Man i have to save your post for future reference, couldn't write it better myself.
You guys ever seen "The Believer" with Ryan Gosling?
In the last scene the protagonist is shown ascending endless stairs. Someone tells him constantly "There is nothing up there". The protagonist ignores him and keeps going up hopeing to find what he's looking for. That's what i did in the last years.
But i don't feel angry, those years are over. I feel defeated and powerless for being what i am. Knowing that for some folks life is a walk in the park and for others hell on earth, based on attributes one can't change. This made me a fatalist and an anti-natalist.

@Admin

Thanks for this great update! I often find myself reading old threads even back into 2014, wondering what happened to all of you. I'm happy for you!

EDIT: by the way how can i rep you guys? Couldn't figure it out so far :thinking:

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25088

Post by Admin » 3 weeks ago

Lurker wrote: 3 weeks ago by the way how can i rep you guys? Couldn't figure it out so far
The ability to rep gets unlocked once you have 4 posts.
:christian-cross:

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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25090

Post by Guest-4 » 3 weeks ago

Lurker wrote: 3 weeks ago I am a long time lurker on here and on hairlosstalk especially in the impact section. I found this forum a couple weeks ago. I got a question for admin (i assume he is old Fred. Is this true?)

So i am a KHHV (kissless, hugless, handholdless virgin) at 29yo. I tried it all. Losing weight (-80 kg), frauding my hair line to NW1 with Toppik and clever styling (even my dermatologist said "What are you talking about you are NW 1", and going to the gym. I am 189 cm, that's 6'2" for my imperial friends and i got a good body on which i get regularly complemented on (only by other men of course).

The reason im a virgin has nothing to do with my hair loss, I know how devastating it is for a young man to find himself balding. I was also depressed for a long time because of it. In reality there are only two things which determine if you'll live a fulfilling life or if you'll suffer for a lifetime:

1. Your face
2. and being neurotypical and communicative

I failed at both, horribly.

1. My face is so bad that i get even asked if my face is the reason that im not uploading a profile pic on Whats App. I shit you not, this happened in the past, even by women. Tinder and asking out women in real life devastated what little confidence i had left (confidence is another bullshit term for being good looking)

2. I got a really severe stutter. 14 years of therapy made me able to at least express myself somewhat succesful. But it's still bad in real life and even worse with women and other new people i get to know

My height did nothing for me, my excellently frauded NW1 did nothing for me. Being muscular did nothing for me. It's all about face and being "normal".

Bettering yourself and being your best version is an endless cycle of self-torturing, while others never even lift a finger for anything and still drown in female attention.

So admin i want to ask you something. In the past you always wrote that going to the gym is useless, but as of 2019 you are advocating for it. Why is this? Do you think of it as an amplifier while having a decent face? Or do you really think being muscular and "fit" will get anyone laid in 2020?

Other than that i really enjoy the old threads on hairlosstalk with good discussions, before you all got banned. Keep it up!
Hi Lurker,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your bravery in opening up. It takes a lot of risk to speak about oneself on the internet, as you never know who might attack.

I'm going to evaluate your situation the best that I can, which is necessarily limited by the fact that I don't have all of the information, and that I have my own numerous blindspots.

1) The people who do well with women without trying.

It is likely often the case that they were "trying", before hand, and now they can take their accumulated advantages for granted. A person raised in a privileged home, as in with loving, smart, and wealthy parents, will on average get all sorts of advantages such as better nutrition growing up, a better ability to cope with stress, etc. They also, on average, get better social skills training, from everything from family gatherings to summer camps.

There's also a snowball effect. People who are wealthy and good looking will be invited to more parties and thus get more experience. While you're putting in the work to lose 80 kg, they don't have 80 kg to lose to begin with, so they're investing that time doing other things such as making money, accumulating knowledge, and accumulating great memories.

2) The benefits of self improvement.

I'll speak from experience and say that there can be a benefit to self improvement. I kissed like two people between the years 2007 and 2016, neither of which went anywhere. I proceeded to lose weight, dress better, improve my interpersonal skills, improved my career, and improved my hair. Things gradually got better. They're still not great but I've now been with multiple women recently, including an elite athlete.

There are still some things I could, though it's hard to self-motivate during the quarantine.

Now, circling back to you, I can't be sure of the details of your situation. So take the following with a grain of salt. You say that you night be lacking in the interpersonal skills department. If that is so, you absolutely need to train that. What I recommend is that you go on as many dates as possible including with women below whatever your standard is. Even if they look terrible. You need to practice social interactions, so that when you meet a woman worthy of you, you're able to act like a man. Keep in mind you're not agreeing to marry these women, only to spend a couple hours with them on a date. It doesn't matter if you think they're ugly.

I did that for a year and a half, it helped.

You should also try and interact with some group that you might enjoy.

3) You're 6'2

Keep in mind that is intrinsically less valuable in Germany than the home of most people who write comments: North America. Americans are on average 2-3 inches shorter than people from Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc probably due to malnutrition and who knows what else.

Americans are hitting puberty earlier, which undermines a lot of things, including height.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/pub ... 1210225437

Anyway, it should eventually help you. But not until the other things click. My theory of how attraction works is that it's like a product. If a single factor, such as personality or class or whatever, is equal to zero, then the whole thing is equal to zero. But a product also means that once you get all of the terns to be greater than 0, than adding to one (such as height) goes a long way.

4) You're a good writer.

5) You've done a lot of impressive work. Nine years of therapy and 80 kg of weight loss, wow.

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#25095

Post by That Guy » 3 weeks ago

Pat wrote: 3 weeks ago The masturbatory self improvement is just that. Daydreaming about how your life will be once you got a six pack, or once you got your degree, or once you get a hair transplant, or what ever fixable thing you blame your lack of success on. You think that happiness is something that you achieve after you've ticked the boxes in your mind. Then you painstakingly chase this imaginary finish line you've set out in your mind. Dedicating your life to improving it.

Once you've finally reached your imaginary finish line there's nothing there. It's all the same. Except now you're old as well.
I would say that this is about a 1/4 truth at best.

It is true that happiness isn't this thing where "I do this and then I'm happy forever", but the reality is that all of these self-improvement this: Lifting weights, having a full head of hair, learning new skills, creative hobbies rather than consumptive ones, etc.

None of these are bad things and none of them will make your life worse. In fact, your life is objectively worse without them.

It is better to have hair than not. It is better to be fit than not. Strength training not only helps elevate testosterone levels but improves posture, makes you a more useful person in general, and fights osteoperosis.

So, will you be super happy and get tons of pussy just because you've made these improvements? Maybe, maybe not, but you WILL be better off with them than without.

On the subject of women; if you are not doing well with hair and good physique, then you'd be doing 10x worse without. Maybe that sounds unimaginable, but I assure you it can be worse.

As for me, I've talked about this many many times on all these forums, making even small changes improved my life considerably. You all of course know about my hair journey and the difference that made. Sometime after joining HairLossTalk, I started lifting as per user recommendations; in the last few years I've gained a lot in muscle and it has really helped me. I no longer suffer from poor blood circulation resulting in cold hands and feet, which is nice. I find that i just "feel" better. I can do a lot more strenous work and not feel tired which is also very useful for helping aging family.

Things like that.

Has that been the ticket to "happy" and shit? No, but again: It's not a bad thing, and certainly better to have than go without.

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#25116

Post by Uncle Grandfather » 3 weeks ago

You seem sincere, OP, and I feel you. I will however still argue that height is the single most important physical attribute in men since it's the only one that can't be changed (hair can be fixed with transplants or a hairpiece, bodies can be fixed with diet & exercise, etc). Before someone chimes in with limb lengthening surgery, it's an incredibly risky and expensive procedure whose results are nowhere near as consistent as hair transplants or diets. It's a shame you don't have a good face, which I'll agree is enough to negate even good height & a good body if it's bad enough. It's like I said in the past, the only way you can fail with women despite being 182cm/6ft+ is by being a total gargoyle and/or having severe Asperger's.

Yes it's true, confidence & "game" are bullshit copes that don't help one bit. It's all about looks, baby. At least being 6'2 though, you'll still be given a chance in your career to work your way up the corporate ladder; if you're a manlet you can forget about ever being a manager or a supervisor.

Not trying to be an ass but have you considered plastic surgery?
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Hair, height and muscles are nothing more than cope

#25145

Post by Exodus » 3 weeks ago

Pat wrote: 3 weeks ago The masturbatory self improvement is just that. Daydreaming about how your life will be once you got a six pack, or once you got your degree, or once you get a hair transplant, or what ever fixable thing you blame your lack of success on. You think that happiness is something that you achieve after you've ticked the boxes in your mind. Then you painstakingly chase this imaginary finish line you've set out in your mind. Dedicating your life to improving it.

Once you've finally reached your imaginary finish line there's nothing there. It's all the same. Except now you're old as well.
thats because that mindset sees happiness as something in the future, happiness is being thankful for what you have now, living in the moment. the future doesn't exist, if the happiness is in the future you will never be happy

Added in 1 minute 46 seconds:
Uncle Grandfather wrote: 3 weeks ago You seem sincere, OP, and I feel you. I will however still argue that height is the single most important physical attribute in men since it's the only one that can't be changed (hair can be fixed with transplants or a hairpiece, bodies can be fixed with diet & exercise, etc). Before someone chimes in with limb lengthening surgery, it's an incredibly risky and expensive procedure whose results are nowhere near as consistent as hair transplants or diets. It's a shame you don't have a good face, which I'll agree is enough to negate even good height & a good body if it's bad enough. It's like I said in the past, the only way you can fail with women despite being 182cm/6ft+ is by being a total gargoyle and/or having severe Asperger's.

Yes it's true, confidence & "game" are bullshit copes that don't help one bit. It's all about looks, baby. At least being 6'2 though, you'll still be given a chance in your career to work your way up the corporate ladder; if you're a manlet you can forget about ever being a manager or a supervisor.

Not trying to be an ass but have you considered plastic surgery?
lol you really think one doesn't have a chance of being promoted because theyre short? :| i mean i'm sure theres that bit of bias against you unconsciously but not anything significant

Added in 6 minutes 29 seconds:
Guest-4 wrote: 3 weeks ago Hi Lurker,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your bravery in opening up. It takes a lot of risk to speak about oneself on the internet, as you never know who might attack.

I'm going to evaluate your situation the best that I can, which is necessarily limited by the fact that I don't have all of the information, and that I have my own numerous blindspots.

1) The people who do well with women without trying.

It is likely often the case that they were "trying", before hand, and now they can take their accumulated advantages for granted. A person raised in a privileged home, as in with loving, smart, and wealthy parents, will on average get all sorts of advantages such as better nutrition growing up, a better ability to cope with stress, etc. They also, on average, get better social skills training, from everything from family gatherings to summer camps.

There's also a snowball effect. People who are wealthy and good looking will be invited to more parties and thus get more experience. While you're putting in the work to lose 80 kg, they don't have 80 kg to lose to begin with, so they're investing that time doing other things such as making money, accumulating knowledge, and accumulating great memories.

2) The benefits of self improvement.

I'll speak from experience and say that there can be a benefit to self improvement. I kissed like two people between the years 2007 and 2016, neither of which went anywhere. I proceeded to lose weight, dress better, improve my interpersonal skills, improved my career, and improved my hair. Things gradually got better. They're still not great but I've now been with multiple women recently, including an elite athlete.

There are still some things I could, though it's hard to self-motivate during the quarantine.

Now, circling back to you, I can't be sure of the details of your situation. So take the following with a grain of salt. You say that you night be lacking in the interpersonal skills department. If that is so, you absolutely need to train that. What I recommend is that you go on as many dates as possible including with women below whatever your standard is. Even if they look terrible. You need to practice social interactions, so that when you meet a woman worthy of you, you're able to act like a man. Keep in mind you're not agreeing to marry these women, only to spend a couple hours with them on a date. It doesn't matter if you think they're ugly.

I did that for a year and a half, it helped.

You should also try and interact with some group that you might enjoy.

3) You're 6'2

Keep in mind that is intrinsically less valuable in Germany than the home of most people who write comments: North America. Americans are on average 2-3 inches shorter than people from Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc probably due to malnutrition and who knows what else.

Americans are hitting puberty earlier, which undermines a lot of things, including height.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/pub ... 1210225437

Anyway, it should eventually help you. But not until the other things click. My theory of how attraction works is that it's like a product. If a single factor, such as personality or class or whatever, is equal to zero, then the whole thing is equal to zero. But a product also means that once you get all of the terns to be greater than 0, than adding to one (such as height) goes a long way.

4) You're a good writer.

5) You've done a lot of impressive work. Nine years of therapy and 80 kg of weight loss, wow.
malnutrition in america? lmao. one of the most developed countries in the world? no its so simple , its all the hispanic immigrants lowering the average.

also the normies who aren't worrying about losing weight aren't "accumulating knowledge" like some academic lmao. i swear dude where do you get half the shit you say , no offense

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